Indians are very superstitious people and believe in rituals, ghosts, etc, the tamperproof EVMs is another superstitious belief that Indians will find no problem in believing.
State election body(NOT CENTRAL body ) can allow EVM to PRINT RECEIPT (with time) of Current party tally/count from the EVM when voter casts his ballot.
That way, people can take the Current tallky receipt and verify any ongoing ghapla. The voter should also have confirm Voted candidate button on EVM screen as well.
State election body will disallow single point of failure.
You should ask Dayanidhi Maran and the corrupt Govt election polling staff and the TN Police and they will tell you how to rig the elections by manipulating EVMs.Only because of his expertise,DNM was given a berth in the Cabinet(though he had an unceremonious exit earlier)as MK patched up to get his expertise for Tirumangalam & other Byelections in TN where DMK won, 40% of votes 'polled'in the last minutes.
Re: EVMs
by E darwin on Aug 30, 2010 05:22 PM
State election body(NOT CENTRAL body ) can allow EVM to PRINT RECEIPT (with time) of Current party tally/count from the EVM when voter casts his ballot.
That way, people can take the Current Tally receipt and verify any ongoing ghapla. The voter should also have confirm Voted candidate button on EVM screen as well.
State election body will disallow single point of failure.
Re: ???
by E darwin on Aug 30, 2010 05:04 PM
Most of the punju/guju/bania/etc politics and movies are based on GANGUP of looter people to make fool of odinary india by emotional manipulation. By showing themselves as more ethical/persecuted or on basis of nationalism/faith/language.
These cheat thugs got in BJP and cheated their failed economic plan and gave it to congress. Thus they run the hidden BJP-congress nexxus. Leftist also fell for it in that hate tirade against ordinary indians.
It is Cheap thuggery of those who get fooled by nationalism/language/religion and then cornering the majority of foolish indians by various means.
Re: ???
by E darwin on Aug 30, 2010 04:54 PM
why are punjus like SETHI so fiercy defending a corrupt system???
All we hear is media lies about great india democracy and nationalism/thiranga.
Mee khai sangtoo...
Both congress and bjp are nexxus in ghaaplaas
Infact, BJP did nothing on bofors, these were the issues that bought them to power.
BJP also makes deal on EVM rigging as well.
BJP is fake opposition that is financed by same mafia that finances Congress.
ELECTION COMMISSION SHOULD be STATE body. Not federal OR CENTRAL. State based election commission will be monitored by National and international agencies. State election body can decide on candidates and usage of EVMs, ballot, etc.
State can allow EVM to print of current party tally/count from the EVM when voter casts his ballot. That way people can verify any ongoing ghapla. The candiate should have confirm button on EVM screen.
THUS STATE LEVEL election BODY comes under that State Governance and governed by state laws in conjunction with Central and International monitoring.
All the State Election Commission will provide the list of elected MP's and this will be accepted by President or Parliamentary committee.
Similar steps for MLAs.
Mamata should stay OUT OF congress Nexxus and not fall in Congress TRAP.
Congress has habit of riding on smaller parties and then slowly KILL THE SMALLER Party.
Marxist should welcome Mamata as their sole opposition.
Mamata NEEDS TO URGENTLY WORK on election reforms.
Re: Re: ???
by vikas sethi on Aug 30, 2010 05:09 PM
Can you name a place where there is no corruption. Corruption is everywhere in the world. You cannot discard everything.
And who is supporting corruption. We use our branis for debates. You choose not to use yrs but to abuse others possibly bcoz you cannot debate.
Get out of yr mentality & yes there will be more corruption if EC becomes a state institution and the like of Lalloo will easily play with it.
Re: Re: Re: ???
by E darwin on Aug 30, 2010 05:15 PM
Lallo is an arsseee but NOT ALL STATES ARE AN arsse. SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE (central) is a BIGGER DISASTER.
EVM has got trust or belief problem which is dangerous for democracy!
lots of people r saying here that paper ballot system is having booth capturing problem!! can they explain that what brings them to think that booth capturing , rigging can not be domne in EVM system ?
booth capturing can be done in EVM system also! other booth capturing in paper ballot system can be managed/ obstructed by planning of performing votes in extended dates with increasing security but what is going on software, can not be obstructed from outside by increasing security!!
so, by implementing paper ballot system, we can regain the trust of electorate!
that is the difference that why we shud go back to ballot paper system!
Re: WE SHUD GO BACK TO PAPER BALLOT SYSTEM!
by E darwin on Aug 30, 2010 04:58 PM
State election body can allow EVM to PRINT of current party tally/count from the EVM when voter casts his ballot. That way people can verify any ongoing ghapla. The candidate should have confirm Voted candidate button on EVM screen as well.
ELECTION COMMISSION SHOULD be STATE body. Not federal OR CENTRAL. State based election commission will be monitored by National and international agencies. State election body can decide on candidates and usage of EVMs, ballot, etc.
THUS STATE LEVEL election BODY comes under that State Governance and governed by state laws in conjunction with Central and International monitoring.
All the State Election Commission will provide the list of elected MP's and this will be accepted by President or Parliamentary committee.
Similar steps for MLAs.
All we hear is media lies about great india democracy and nationalism/thiranga.
Mee khai sangtoo...
Both congress and bjp are nexxus in ghaaplaas
Infact, BJP did nothing on bofors, these were the issues that bought them to power.
BJP also makes deal on EVM rigging as well.
Mamata should stay OUT OF congress Nexxus and not fall in Congress TRAP.
Congress has habit of riding on smaller parties and then slowly KILL THE SMALLER Party.
Marxist should welcome Mamata as their sole opposition.
Mamata NEEDS TO URGENTLY WORK on election reforms.
Re: Re: WE SHUD GO BACK TO PAPER BALLOT SYSTEM!
by revikumar vasudevan on Aug 30, 2010 08:40 PM
Dear..What u r tying to say ? U mixed up so many issues, but nothing is complete.
It is already proved in India and abroad that EVM can be manipulated before & after voting process very easly. So for the time being we should go back to ballot system and let the engineers comeout with a new system which is error free and reliable.
It is valid that Hari Prasad is arrested. Else tomorrow there may be a case of a criminal robbing say the keys of a locker and when caught may try to escape saying he was merely trying to prove that the lockers could be hacked.
Such scenarios are pregnant for misuse. If you or I was in his place we too would have been arrested without having any possibility of getting bail.
Further, why is he not disclosing the name of the person who helped him steal the unit? He wants to be a whistle blower on the one hand to get kudos while on the other he wants to safeguard the thieves or even cover up the modus operandi of how a unit can be stolen. After all, The election commissions argument is that an EVM cannot be taken out of its custody and hence it cannot be tampered with.
So how exactly can EVM be smuggled out and for its misuse it needs to be tampered with and again put back in its place. That should all be part of the expose.
Re: Hari Prasad's arrest is valid
by Abba zan on Aug 30, 2010 03:42 PM
There is no problem in questioning the legitimacy of EVMs. All that he is asking is, elections cannot be fought on trust alone, it should be fought based on proof.
EC has not provided Hari a sample of EVM which has bound him to get from other sources!
He was arrested for that but it has been again proved that EVM can be stolen also!! He was arrested few days back and the required info govt. cud get from him within 2-3 days! then, why the govt. is not coming with the informations that from where EVM was stolen?? why it is hiding again??
EVMs can be tampered, that means there is no value for your and my vote.
Re: Re: Hari Prasad's arrest is valid
by vikas sethi on Aug 30, 2010 03:59 PM
Even ballots were manipulated. So what was the value of yr vote earlier?
You need a technically sound person to first remove the unit, manipulate it, keep it back without anyone knowing. It is a tall ask. But ballots can be easily tampered with and by anyone.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hari Prasad's arrest is valid
by Abba zan on Aug 30, 2010 05:02 PM
where u have found difficulties to understand my comment??
rigging of paper ballot and casting votes by stamping on each rigged paper, we were doing in college days and also 5-6 votes we cast per head! so, i am experience in rigging system! dont give lecture on that! now, EVM also can not be rigged in same way by capturing the booth and clicking to the desired candidate!! even it is more easier than stamping earlier!! however, EVM system is unseen and varifiability is not there! so, whatever loop holes in these two system but paper ballot is more trust worthy !
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hari Prasad's arrest is valid
by Abba zan on Aug 30, 2010 05:02 PM
where u have found difficulties to understand my comment??
rigging of paper ballot and casting votes by stamping on each rigged paper, we were doing in college days and also 5-6 votes we cast per head! so, i am experience in rigging system! dont give lecture on that! now, EVM also can not be rigged in same way by capturing the booth and clicking to the desired candidate!! even it is more easier than stamping earlier!! however, EVM system is unseen and varifiability is not there! so, whatever loop holes in these two system but paper ballot is more trust worthy !
Re: Hari Prasad's arrest is valid
by Sachin Purohit on Aug 30, 2010 04:12 PM
Your comment smacks of ignorance of the chronological order of events that happened: 1. Hari K. Prasad's claim that EVMs can be hacked was out in the open since quite a long time even before the EVM was stolen. Tell me a thief that comes out in the open in front of cameras and says that the banks' lockers can be hacked and then proceeds to steal them?
2. Next Election Commission calls him to prove his claim but denies him access to an EVM on which he can perform his hack. How on earth can an experiment be done without access to the basic apparatus required for the experiment. Apparently EC wanted to lampoon him for his tall claims but fizzling out at the last minute.
3. The experiment - mind you - is the most critical one, on which depends the faith of the masses in the nation's electoral system. The obvious next step for any serious activist is to steal the apparatus and throw the results of the experiment at the face of those who were mocking him. That's what he did.
To use your analogy of guy stealing a bank locker - if the bank was prudent enough and given him the locker to prove his case that the systems can be hacked, the bank could have realized and important security flaw and closed it before a serious criminal were to use that flaw to his advantage.
Re: Re: Hari Prasad's arrest is valid
by vikas sethi on Aug 30, 2010 05:01 PM
My anology was to prove the point that anyone who steals the locker keys has to be arrested. He cannot give noble intentions to escape arrest else in all cases of theft, thieves will justify the act on noble intentions. And these justifications will not stand in a court of law as will be seen in Hari's case too. You cannot set a trend of pardoning thieves.
Secondly, EC is a constitutional body & political parties can complain to it on policy matters & not individuals. Why does BJP or any other party that strongly feels that EVM can be manipulated lodge a complaint with EC??? EC will have to act. But BJP is merely testing the waters to see how emotional is the matter with the public. It has not as yet lodged a complaint. It is merely indulging in a public tamasha rather than make efforts to get to the bottom of the case. Cong feels EVM cannot be easily manipulated in elections even though it may be technically possible to manipulate.
Further, EC had invited Hari and offered a random unit which could not be tampered with. This was stated by EC officials on national television in the presence of Narsinha Rao who was also part of the show.
But all said and done, it is for political parties who really feel strongly about the issue to take cudgels with EC. Why are they NOT DOING IT??? Possible bcoz they know EVM cannot be tampered with in practice although therotically it may be possible if u provide a unit to a hacker to hack.
Re: Re: Re: Hari Prasad's arrest is valid
by Abba zan on Aug 30, 2010 05:10 PM
only possible answer for opposition to be silent is: power is shared! understanding is going on! they r fishingly silent on this vulnerable issue!
it is the individual who r raising this point on behalf of whole masses to up hold our democratic right!
who told , we have no right for complaining of the system?? then what is democracy? after all, we r the voters!
Re: Hari Prasad's arrest is valid
by Mr Walker on Aug 30, 2010 03:59 PM
I think his arrest is invalid, he has done a great service by exposing the loopholes in the system and for that the EC should be thankful to him also we Indians should be thankful to him.
Why should he disclose any names at all ?? so that both the EC and person who helped him would be his enemies.
Re: Re: Re: Hari Prasad's arrest is valid
by Mr Walker on Aug 30, 2010 05:55 PM
Vikas you read the news first and then make such claims of upholding law.
thsi person had claimed that EVM could be hacked instead of taking his help and making the system more secure the EC went on claiming that there system was foolproof which no technology is.
Why do you bring political parties into this ?? probably the BJP is scared probably they are threatened ?? probably they are not smart enough ?? there could be any number of reasons for their slience.
The point here is a person has openly claimed a system is faulty and when not given a chance proved it in his own manner simple. Your comparison of thief is totally wrong, he has come out in open and claimed what he has done which is what a good person does.
Bad people always try to hide their deeds which is how the EC has been acting.
Sorry to say you are twisting logic to suit your agenda of supporting the UPA.
