First of all, this Super-urbanized model of economic development we are following is Very much flawed and not suitable for our country's conditions. This will ead us to a system collapse and total destruction of our environments. The IT sector growth, malls blah blah are nothing more than a local maxima and we are headed for a global minima..We got lucky with IT because of Sam pitroda's good job with Telecom infrastructure, internet technologies, cheap bandwidth and good legislation ( for a change !!!). IT hit before babus could strike and needless to say, IT doesnt need any lorries and buses and good roads to transport raw material or finished goods, so that is terrific indeed !!! We took a short-cut..
Where are the economy's fundamentals guys ? The following FUNDAMENTAL NEGATIVE factors will continue to exist and ensure that we make 5 steps back while taking 3 steps forward. Aiming for a sustained true inclusive economic success without getting the fundas right is like muggging up and answering integration formulas without knowing addition/subtraction.....
a) corrupt and influential power and political groups - Unlikely to change any time soon since they are well-entrenched b) population pressue and too many castes and religions and tribes fighting with each other -Some progress with popln. control but urbanized model will concentrate more and more people in cities much beyond capacity so no use...Centralized system of govt offers no solutions to deal with the extraordinary diversity of our country. c) insufficient natural resources and wastages - No water, no clean air, extreme pollution in cities d) lack of law and order - Unlikely to change e) a bad education system with no emphasis on learning by doing and vocational education - may change and make some impact f) Poor urban infrastructure - Absolutely pathetic and will not change...Our urban centres will go even lower and will not be reformed. We will have weekly riots in the streets of our cities in a few years.
I get irritated whenever i see those Harvard / LSE researchers saying india will be the largest economy in 2050 blah...blah...., I wonder if India will be surviving as a nation in 2050 with the model we have...
The way to go to avoid this ??/ : Law and order reform : police reform and focus on prosecuting corruption, 10 times as many courts and lawyers, fast-track courts,quick judgements : Land reform and redistribution like in Bengal : Infrastructure, Infrastucture, Infrastructure - Power, Airports, Rail, Roads, Highways, Ports,. Urban cleanup. : Promote labor-intensive, rural/agrarian sectors which will add the most jobs - no urbanized mode of development please, jobs should go to the villages and towns - poultry, agriculture,SSI's. Most jobs should be friendly to nature and non-offshorable. : Education sector reform and max number of vocational institutions to make people employable ASAP. Universal primary education. : Groundwater managment authority : Decentralize Governance to the States to the max. Babus regime should be finished. : Minimum qualifications for entering politics. Don't say that you will require a BA for a typist job and not need anything for a MLA/MP. Criminal cases should disqualify and not allow people to contest. Complete declaration of assets and monitoring for MLA's/MP's. : 100% taking the way of green development and sustainable environmental freindly technologies. Bio-diesel and renewable energy sources... : Focus on cheap, clean and universal public transit
During this time, * Limit the malls ( Stupid no use business for India, miniscule job generation ) * Limit the golf courses and the Amby Valley's and the Gated developments( Wheres the water coming from ? ) * No more free ride for IT industry bosses. Come on guys, its time you started paying your taxes to the govt. * Luxury cars and goods must have 300/400% duties or taxes slapped on them. Maybe make them, but only for exports. It looks obscene to see BMWs and buffalo's side by side on our roads...
Let us first accomplish all this, then think about matching US, US, Europe...Damn the stupid statistic of 9% GDP growth...Lies, Damn lies and then there are statistics, the worst of them..
RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by Mahesh Jagga on Feb 27, 2007 12:37 PM
Title of your message "Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it..." is correct but most of fundamentals you have mentioned are not right.
In many cases, the communist thoughts break thru the development facade created by this combination of varied thoughts.
Lets run past them one by one.
Law and Order reform - definitely needed but not central to this discussion.
Land reform and redistribution like in Bengal - I am shocked. Despite claims and counter claims about actual land reforms effected and beneficiaries, West Bengal had the record of only poverty and nothing else for over 20 years.
Infrastructure, power, airports, railroads, highways, ports - correct. We need it for development.
Urban Cleanup : Look at what is happening in Delhi. Why did it happen. More and more people are flowing into cities (problem part 1) and there are no houses to live (Problem part 2)
First problem cannot be tackled by urban cleanup. You need to create opportunites in villages and class C cities. I am jumping the gun - Use IT.
Second problem is created by government declaring that all land belongs to it and only authority to create housing is DDA which takes around 30 years to complete a project.
Promote labor intensive ............ I agree and we need money for this which you have tried to curtail in last points.
Education, Ground water - yes.
Minimum qualification for entering politics. No sir. The education we get does not necessarily make us suitable to lead the country. I would rather go in for educating public that they vote on real issues than emotive ones.
Criminal cases should dis.... Again no. Think of any honest politician. I know the term is an oxymoron but out of these thousands, you may think of one. So if a corrupt chief minister of a state asks his equally corrupt DGP to file a criminal case against this guy, his career and our only honest politician is gone.
It is in the last part that you have let your socialist and communist thoughts come out and shine.
Limit the malls - why? when it gets constructed, thousands get employment. when it starts running another thousand. The shopkeepers earn more money and real trickle down effect takes place.
Limit golf courses - I have no objections. At least keep cricket grounds running.
No more free ride for IT industry bosses. Everyone will back the winners. If they bring more money to country and by extension become rich why should you feel bad about it? Free rides should always be available to those who can use the opportunity and contribute to development.
Luxury cars and goods must have 300 / 400% duties. You will be the darling of Karats and Yechuris. If you start taxing rich more where will you get money for education, labor intensive employment in rural / semi urban areas, infrastructure development? Every counrty has realized that higher tax percentages always yield less revenue.
I am sure your objectives are utopian. You want equitable growth for all 1000 million indians at same pace. However, please remember, USSR tried it for donkeys years and failed. We failed for 45 years.
Only other option is to know your strengths. IT and ITES provide some indications of our strengths. So the best way is to exploit your strengths to generate revenues to move ahead in weak areas but without killing the golder goose.
This will mean non equitable growth for some period before trickle down becomes a water fall. But what is the only other option. Go the USSR way and distribute poverty?????
RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by Jagadeesan R on Mar 01, 2007 07:39 AM
a) If you are saying that "Law and order" is not relevant to economic developmemt, it means that you are ignoring the ABCD of development.
Without Law and order, Companies will not invest... Corruption will eat up 95% of all the money and most money will be black ( As is happening now ) Individuals will fear putting in money into enterprises... Quality of publc services will not be good.. Goondas will rule ( as is happening now).. How do you think all this facilitates economic development ? I think you are taking a blinkered view of economic development...
b) You are wrong about WB. Just bcos industrialization did not happen in one state doesn't mean that the state did not achieve anything at all..i dont know y u r ignoring the land reform success in WB. The % of ppl speaking Enlgish in india is 5%. Let us not fool ourselves by saying that IT/ITES is a panacea for all our problems...
c) An education qulaification would act as a decent filter,,Your suggestion of educating the public seems to be a utopian one not rooted in reality...
I have no idea whether you have a practicable solution that would give better results than preventing candidates involved in criminal cases from contesting...Any ?
d) Any reasonable person would agree that societal harmony ultimately means an objective of socialism/communism/whatever else you call it..Capitalism/free markets are only a means to achieve the same..Dont get bogged dowin in Cold War jargon...I think you must be a fan of Vijay Mallya and Donald Trump and useless Page 3 glitterati . I am not.
You can build a million malls, the very next day after a) you have working toilets for most of the homeless. b) you have ensured that 90% of our population has access to safe drinking water.c) You ensure universal PRIMARY EDUCATION.Dont aim for a PHD before finishing ur 5th standard exams....
e) IT industry exports are now 21billion dollars...Y does the industry still need 10-year tax holidays going forward ? Can you explain ? Cant these tax holidays be given for other industries so that they also come up... If you think that 100% of our popln should work in IT and the only other option would be to be jobless, you are living in fools paradise
f) Its not higher tax percentages as a blanket...You would understand it better if you see current income tax dept norms towards making PAN numbers mandatory for all high-value purchases and relating to stocks...The govt wants to watch high-cash flow folks for good reasons....Since we have a pitiful tax coverage ratio..
Trickle down works only 1 or 2 levels down..It would be far better if you get the fundamentals right first and grow ground-up, only that would be true and sustained growth..
RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by hello on Feb 27, 2007 02:06 AM
I asked you a question below. You didn't answer. I will talk nice to people who put their point w/o blaming India or blaming the existing system. Or w/o blaming IT which gave more success to India. If any one blame IT company, then they are not true benefical to India from my opinion. It depends on different people. So, press your opinion on me.
RE:RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by Sukhwinder on Feb 27, 2007 02:22 AM
Dear Hello,
I am sorry and confused. Are you drunk or just having trouble composing simple sentences?
I didn't mean to offend you. It's just that whenever I see such colourful usage of English, I tend to assume the person is on Cloud Nine (if you know what I mean).
RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by Jagadeesan R on Feb 27, 2007 02:09 AM
Thanks Sukwinder, hope sometime down the line, i get down to actually doing something on the ground that reflects my thoughts and passion and helps things in our country change atleast a little bit....hope to do that...
RE:RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by Sukhwinder on Feb 27, 2007 02:25 AM
Jagadeesan,
You are most welcome.
Hope somebody in the government takes note of your suggestions. It would be a good place to start!! If things continue like this, then the END is really near!
RE:RE:RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by Jagadeesan R on Feb 27, 2007 02:36 AM
Yes, I see only a window of another 3 years if we continue in the same fashion before the riots begin in the city streets..
I myself am an IT guy. IT has done a very good job in raising the profile of the country, giving people opportunities and giving us confidence... But we need to focus on the critical priority areas and get the fundamentals of the society right before aspiring for bigger things..
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by hello on Feb 27, 2007 02:47 AM
Since some one discouraged me and gave bad name, I don't expect my point will have value here, but still telling: First we need to read history and see how other countries developed. When those developed countries developed, at that time they also faced with those problems, how they had solved those problems. When did they worry about these things. My point is we are too early to be worry about these problems. First we financially strong, defensively strong then, these the solutions will happen automatically. Let the child grow to think about potty training. Next time, i will give some links of the books about the subjects. Currently our enemies are worrying these things to distrupt us.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by Mohit Jain on Feb 27, 2007 03:09 AM
And how do you suppose this would be done???
RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by deepak joseph on Feb 27, 2007 03:54 AM
Dear Jagadeesan, What you have said is just right. I second your opinion on all fronts. I left Bangalore 4 years back to make some money in the UK. Now, when I think of coming back to India, it is practically impossible. Even with the money I earn here, it is difficult to buy my own house in Bangalore.
I feel the purchasing power brought on by the booming sectors does not reflect the widening gap between them and other employment sectors that have not grown as much.
It is a sad picture, and calls for urgent reforms. However, I do not see anything changing. Its only a matter of time before this unsustainable development crumbles on its unstable foundations. I congrajulate you on your words of wisdom, and hope you are in a position to make a difference in the future. Regards
RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by K on Feb 27, 2007 05:37 AM
I agree completely with you. Just curious who are the Babus you are reffering to? However if you do want to contribute something, I think you should pick one unique cause and focus on it. I wish you all the best.
RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by Jagadeesan R on Feb 27, 2007 06:32 AM
Thanks Deepak. Yes we need to go for a somewhat different economic model specific to our conditions..
K, babus was just a general reference to the bad sheep in our civil service bureacrats. Yes it would be good to start off focusing on any one cause...lets see...many of my friends are already putting in a lot of work with NGO's...got some ideas, lets se..
RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by Mohit Jain on Feb 27, 2007 03:01 AM
I agree with you, however, there is nothing new that you are adding/saying here man. In India every house has a philospher, politian, doctor et al, and I guess you are one of them.
I am not criticizing what you have written, but man, be practical. These things are being said for the last donkey years, but JUST SAID. We should think of something that can actually be done. Just talking will not do. But that SOMETHING is elusive.
BTW, I dont see a big problem with a BMW and a buffalo at the same time on the road.
RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by Jagadeesan R on Feb 27, 2007 03:09 AM
True, but as they say, thought and no action is bad, but one step forward from no thought and no action. Hope i do something on the ground sometime in the future.
RE:RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by Mohit Jain on Feb 27, 2007 03:14 AM
Well you have my best wishes and hopefully many more can join you on this, including myself.
RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by srinivasan srivatsan on Feb 27, 2007 03:22 AM
Hello...Your point w.r.t other countries is fine. Please understand the fact that, those times were different and it was the Manufacturing era at the earliest. Also the entire worlds population was probably 2-3 billion. Now india alone has 1.3 billion people. The entire discussion is about sustaining growth and spreading wealth throughout the country.
You don't want to get a loan for 50 lakhs based on your 10 lakh income now and then later lose your job or your salary is reduced to like 3 lakhs.
As jagdeesan rightly pointed out, growth has to be allround, only then it's a prosperous economy. Also please remember our IT face is not in manufacturing but in services, which is very very unstable. We've just started out in manufacturing. This brings in the need for growing everywhere. Our Agricultural potential is very high.
RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by Sukhwinder on Feb 27, 2007 03:21 AM
Mohit,
Have you seen a BMW and a Buffalo on the same road in Nasik or Bhopal? I don't think so ..... that is why you don't have problem.
Being asked to be practical is also a common occurence in Indian households. How can you say that these things have been said , JUST SAID for donkey years, when there is a new problem confronting us?
Just because you cannot articulate like Jagadeesan, you don't need to hate him.
RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by vijay on Feb 27, 2007 03:26 AM
Sorry something wrong in your comments.
1) What ever you said about the Politics, corruption, law and order, infrastructure..etc., are correct. I agree with you on this. But...
Its really stupid to saying limit the Malls. As you said why IT bosses got free rides. B'caze they are paying huge tax and alot of things to our country. As a compliment its not a matter to give them free rides.
Totally i feel your are very negative person who refuce to see good things around and you looks crazy by saying experts as stupid (Harvard/LSE..etc)
RE:RE:Till the fundamentals are good......forget about it...
by Jagadeesan R on Feb 27, 2007 03:42 AM
* Why I say - limit the Malls ??? How many jobs created by a mall ? 1000 ? How many parking problems created for the city residents by the mall vehicles ? How much power consumed ? Quality of jobs created by mall - poor Overall is it a plus or a minus for a society? I say minus, in today's India...each one has their own judgement....
* IT bosses got lots of incentives to set u[ industries..Now IT exports crossed 21 billion $. Do we still need tax rebates for growth to continue ? I say NO, not any more... you say yes (WHY ???? ). These rebates can be shifted to other industries like manufacturing or textiles...RIGHTT ????
* I am not a negative person at all, just trying to see the full picture...Let us stop making newer gods and idols of people and institutions..Harvard and LSE may be good, but that doesnt mean that we should not use our brains and question what info we are fed by them, if we have proper reasoning.
i m from punjab and we had a nice business. we are in upper middle class family and we have everything like AC, car and all the amenties which any normal man can dream about. i came to US to improve my life style ( you can say to be hunk). after finishing my masters we are under a bank loan of appx 21000 USD and now i am feeling like to go back to india. but after listening to my father i came to know that business is really bad and now i have to stay in US so that they can depend upon me. I am struck, i was here to enjoy my life but i think now i will have to be here just to keep my family enjoying good days. is it what india rising????!!! dont you think we need to take care of everything and not just IT and other billion dollar business(wallmart-bharti). i am not saying that those people are doing bad but government should do something for middleclass as well. i think by this approach india will turn out to be a service class nation. but let me tell you if you think that we can be a country with a business structure like US then we are making big mistake. In US those big retail stores (like wallmart and all) are out of city in the suburbs (in some cases 30 km out of city) and the small groceries stores are running pretty well, so everybody is running thier business. i dont think in india we can have that kind of structure that wallmart will be just few kilometers from some city and people will buy stuff from local retailers on comparatively higher prices. One request to some beurocrates do something. come up with some good ideas. Only then india will survive. You can not see a tree lasting long with a week roots. thank you very much for your time and consideration.
RE:i need your answer
by srinivasan srivatsan on Feb 27, 2007 01:37 AM
It will be very interesting to see how Walmart actually does business in India. Generally most of Walmarts products are chinese(http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/29/content_395728.htm). They are pretty much low-quality stuff. However chinese products were not a hit in india and suffered a big blow due to local competition.
RE:RE:RE:i need your answer
by Krish N on Feb 27, 2007 01:40 AM
The customer base for Walmart in India is going to be really low. Only people with cars can afford to go to walmart, buy a lot of things and take them home.
For others who dont have a car, the journey is not worth it, because it will take a lot of time to reach there, and bringing the things that they buy back home is going to be a hassle. It would be cheaper for them to buy it at the local retail store.
RE:RE:RE:RE:i need your answer
by Mukesh Goyal on Feb 27, 2007 02:46 AM
respected sir, just take the case that wallmart gonna have stores not in the suburbs but with in the city. tell me what it would be, it will eat our small business (not only food but all kind of retail sector)
RE:RE:RE:i need your answer
by Mukesh Goyal on Feb 27, 2007 02:37 AM
I think hello is trying to solve my problem but dude dont tell me driving taxi and giving divorce to my wife (in case i am married) will help me to save more money. I was not posting this message here to be ridiculed. Anyway thankx for your response. bye
RE:i need your answer
by Jagadeesan R on Feb 27, 2007 08:06 AM
Mukesh, First of all, all the best... Since our economy is booming so big, your job should be less tough than you think...
* Do you want to maintain a staff-service model or a self-service model for the store ? You will need to remodel accordingly. Also depends on how big the store-space available is... * You must continue to offer door delivery for free or for small fee - This is major plus for Kirana stores. * You will need to put in more money to ensure that your shop is well-stocked, well-lit, spacious and have a good computerized billing system(which you probably already have). * Now comes the ugly part.....You may need to consider changing the nature of the shop to target a high-volume market category that will not be hit by the marts...like....? - Pharmacy - Fast food / Bakery / Sweet-shop - Mobile telephony/accesories store
RBI and all export oriented companies (Both SW and other) are to blame for this run away inflation. RBI has stupidly manipulated the price of rupee so that our exports are cheaper. Due to this there is deluge of money (printed money ) floating in the market. This is a big problem for lower class as their earnings are de valued by their own people. It is like this: If INFY or TCS or any garment factory earns $1 in revenue, RBI hands them another 4 or 5 rupees bonus. Where is such bonus for low end workers. These companies put enormous amount of pressure (as they have big mouths, and most of the media thinks they are correct) on RBI to keep the ruppe value low so that they can compete on pricing with other exporters like china etc.
These companies should learn to compete by increasing their productivity and by not exploiting the system to their own advantage.
RE:main culprits
by Mahesh Jagga on Feb 27, 2007 01:00 PM
For your information, it is $ which is becoming cheaper. If one year back you exported goods worth Rs. 1000, a US company would pay $ 21.74. Today for same Rs. 1000, same US company pays $22.98 thus making us uncometitive while we still get Rs. 1000 only.
RE:main culprits
by hello on Feb 27, 2007 01:26 AM
Some short sighted guys now a days only slogan is printed money. I don't know how long they use that slogan. How do one pay money, shall I give a big rod of Iron for getting flight ticket will you accept.
RE:RE:RE:main culprits
by hello on Feb 27, 2007 01:37 AM
How do you relate paper money, artifical low here in indian context. that is wrong in open economy like ours. first understand that.
People like Vanaja want to dream about the good old days when their husbands were middlemen and charging the customer exorbitant prices .
It's better if these middlemen lose their jobs so they can do something better and so that buyers don't pay exorbitant overheads .
Even today the people who oppose walmart are not the buyers but the sellers and shopkeepers who want to keep pocketing 20-30% margin on sale of everything.
RE:Low IQ people always remain poor
by Sukhwinder on Feb 27, 2007 01:16 AM
Now that is really insensitive!
Hopefully your good fortunes will last much longer than poor Vanaja's.
My dear friend, IQ has nothing to do with misery or good fortune. Even the smartest of the smart fall on hard times when life takes a turn for the worse!
And are you aware that Walmart was also a small business, making profits from that dastardly percentage? All the great business success stories started small. Your condemnation of small business is misplaced.
What makes you thing any business can survive without a mark up?
Atleast Vanaja's husband was enterprising to do what he did. He didn't wait for government hand-outs to survive. It is sad to see that this spirit of enterprise is the victim of adverse circumstances!
RE:Low IQ people always remain poor
by Srinivasan Ashok on Feb 27, 2007 02:24 AM
I think VS missed the point. Vanaja is an example and they are the majority in our country. They are struggling to survive in our new economic growth. So the new economy improved the quality of few million people%u2019s life out of 1.1 billion. In the long run this would create trouble in our country and it would trigger social unrest. We already witnessed the raising number of kidnappings, robbery in all over the country due to this imbalance. The biggest problem is inflation and food prices are skyrocketing.I noticed the inflation rate in America or China is less than 4%. In our country though we are claiming it is around 7 to 8%, but the exact rate could be two digits. Just compare vegetables, rice, wheat and dhal prices and people like Vanaja the impact could be severe. Their salary won't rise the way the people working in IT industry. Definitely this is not a good news.
Am an IT professional working in a southern metro earning reasonably okay (sic). Having an agricultural background, I used to work as a daily labourer during my school/collage days
.. seen both sides of the life, I will tell you that globalization is sick. Only thing that could help this situation is a huge reduction in population - by whatever means, lets hope that it happens...
with this place so much overcrowded there is no other real solution
Our PM, He has no clue how a poor man is living, he has spent more than half of his career abroad.
Our FM, No clue of rural India, U think he has spent more than half of his life abrod and is structuring indian financial system.
Our beloved Sonia Gandhi, Where is she from
Our President, Though I respect him a lot, he has spent 70% of his time in Underworld(as a nuclear scientist), 10% writting his books and 20% dreaming about 2020.
Our leadership has no clue how a common man is leading his life.
RE:Our Leaders
by Gautam Bandyopadhyay on Feb 27, 2007 01:06 AM
Our RM (Railway minister) has a very good rural background. I was just wondering whether the People of Bihar was living in paradise when Mr. Prasad was Bihar's CM ?
RE:RE:Our Leaders
by nagesh kumar on Feb 27, 2007 01:10 AM
THATS WHAT I MEAN TO SAY WE HAVE TWO EXTREME CASES IN OUR COUNTRY, BUT WE ALSO HAVE VERY GOOD EXAMPLES POPULAR LEADERS LIKE LAL BAHADDUR SHASTRI, INDIRA GANDHI, A.B.VAJPAYEE WHO SPENT ALL OF THERE LIFE WITH PEOPLE AND WERE ABLE TO BALANCE THE POLICIES OF ECONOMY WITH THE ASPIRATIONS OF COMMON MAN.. AND THERE ARE ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS TO ANY PROPOSAL,
RE:Our Leaders
by on Feb 27, 2007 12:32 AM
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. ITS NO TIME TO CRY OVER OUR COUNTRY'S FATE..ITS TIME FOR ACTION. INDIANS.. THINK WHAT WE NEED AND IMPLEMENT IT.
RE:Our Leaders
by srinivasan srivatsan on Feb 27, 2007 01:24 AM
I totally accept the Sonia Gandhi fact. But for others, it might not very true Just because he's spent half his career abroad does'nt explain the fact that he does not know how a poor man lives. Ofcourse, his hands are tied up. Decision making is not a very easy task especially in a country like india. Please remember 1 man cannot change the country, be it the president/prime minister. He's an expert in economics. India is making giant leaps only because of some of the decision he took during the Naramisha Roa period.
RE:RE:Our Leaders
by on Feb 27, 2007 01:47 AM
Well, then don't just comment on leaders who atleast are doing something for the rest of the country. Don't work in IT, join politics. And let see what you can do when you become one of the PM/FMs etc. When you look at the big picture, rural areas though important don't fall under high priority list. And yes, note if not directly atleast indirectly, these leaders are taking care of rural people. If we don't compete with other countries like China, there won't be jobs which inturn create other jobs.
And finally, what India needs is well educated, young leaders in every field not just politics.
RE:RE:RE:Our Leaders
by nagesh kumar on Feb 27, 2007 02:00 AM
Its our right we need to comment whar we feel, I never comment on thier abilties in thier respctive fields, all of the above personalties have excelled in their area of study, this doesn't make them good leaders. India needs educated real life politicians. Well educted people will better work in countries like Swiz, Luxembourg, Singapore.
RE:RE:Our Leaders
by nagesh kumar on Feb 27, 2007 01:37 AM
They are not one man brother, they represent billion Indians, they are the people need to change things. If hands are tied up step down from the seat, save your image as an able economist but as popular leader,I am sorry if my words are strong
RE:RE:RE:Our Leaders
by srinivasan srivatsan on Feb 27, 2007 01:50 AM
It's true they represent billions...but their decisions are not unanimously accepted by all. Please remember he's one of the most educated people to be in this seat. You are talking of a perfect political system. Please accept the fact that our system is really messed up. You don't want a prime-minister like Laloo/Paswan/MK etc. etc. To add to this, he also represents the entire country to the world. Change can never be seen in a day. It takes a while with some good progress everyday. He's one of the most able men to do it.
I think the main problem here is that we need to first self sustain. Can anyone here tell me what is the value of a rupee? As someone pointed out, Rs 1 Crore has no value now. This is surely inflation. When the value of the rupee goes up, prices will come down. Salaries will get normalised. For example, take the case of dollar/pound/euro. The value of a dollar is so much. You can get a meal for a dollar/pound. A person with a $2000 salary, can live a very decent life.
OfCourse this is going to be difficult in our country, considering our population. We should have attended to this 2-3 yrs back. The minumum salary in IT is like Rs. 4,00,000, thats atrocious...Where is the value for money here???
The entire country has to chip in for reducing inflation.
If we need to nail this problem, we need reduce our exports considerably and learn to self sustain to reduce costs. The more we want to export the more the demand is locally and less is the supply.
We should not encourage the new Real estate surge. I've noticed people buying land as if there's going to be none tommorrow. The best part is the junta is ready to pay huge prices. The difference between the government prices and the broker price is huge (really huge). We need to stop this. Please don't expect the government to stop this, there's too much corruption here...Always remember there's no seller until there is a buyer.
We don't have to rely on politicians for everything...We are the country (the people)
RE:RE:Value of Money
by Easwar Moorthi on Feb 27, 2007 01:08 AM
I think he says, instead of exporting, supply to local people at cheaper rate.... I dont think this willl solve the problem... say, if india produces rice, and does not export, it can even give it cheaper...but people dont realise, the farmers are the worst affected people, I am from agricultural background, now in IT field. But its a serious discussion, I am up for it.
RE:RE:RE:Value of Money
by srinivasan srivatsan on Feb 27, 2007 01:14 AM
No Easwar thats not what I meant. For example, if you supply rice at a cheaper rate it's a loss to the local government, they buy at a higher price and less at a much lesser price. We are not meeting our demand and trying to export more. Please let me know your opinion
RE:RE:Value of Money
by srinivasan srivatsan on Feb 27, 2007 01:04 AM
By reducing exports, what happens
1. We should export only the surplus produced. By doing so, we would be able to meet the demand. Competition would also kick in for price reduction. Inflation would also decrease on products which are exported at much higher values than market prices.
Vanaja's case is a symptom and classic example of the ripple effect of unplanned growth.
It is clear that the government didn't even consider, let alone plan, how a drastic change in the economy would affect different quarters, classes of the Indian society.
This situation has all the potential of getting worse. If a solution is not found soon, the gap between the haves and have-nots will become unbridgeable.
All we can do is hope that the government does not end up playing catch-up i.e. trying to solve yesterday's problems today as new problems arise and aggravated ones grow larger and unmanageable.
RE:A grave symptom
by Shridhar Aiyer on Feb 26, 2007 11:21 PM
I could not agree more with you.India shining has been the biggest dirt thrown in everybody's eyes. True certain aspects of the economy have been booming in India like never before but a large section of our society still lives like they did 10 years back. India is not shining for those people. All the spending power touted about the middle class Indian is nothing more than credit. Society today is still made of the haves and the have nots.I think the rest of them survive on their credit cards.What is the use of this enormous spending power advertised with malls springing up everywhere when we know that what basically floats is credit?
RE:RE:RE:A grave symptom
by Prem Kumar on Feb 26, 2007 11:57 PM
Well said Sukwinder & Sridhar. I was moved by this article but your replies came as consolation that, at least few people are still feeling for the poor.
Can you please write me at yuvashakthi@gmail.com - youths have to join hands in controlling the Gaps between haves & havenots/ previlaged & under-previlaged or rather served & under-served.
If we don't do know, we are facing a revolution where poor will throw out corrupt & power from their throne and it will not be a pleasant fight.
RE:RE:A grave symptom
by anoop prakash on Feb 26, 2007 11:56 PM
well the govt can bring in PDS as it is being done in Kerala. The system is well developed here.
Maybe that will help to an extent. Maybe other govts should take up the PDS system that is well developed in our state.
Why do they have three kids.WHen they know that they can't afford. Lest face they were not livibng a sustained life with Rs.100/- per day,so i wonder if this story has any value.
RE:'Life has never been so bad'
by JM on Feb 26, 2007 11:51 PM
This is a good point. Vanaja and her husband's educational levels are probably so bad that they were not aware of family planning. Only education at the grassroots can bring about change in India. Govt, needs to start giving soft loans to higher level education instead of subsidising it. The returns of spending Rs.10,000 to educate 10 people with basic education is much higher than educating 1 person with teh same amount in higher education. Why the hell do students in IIT and other Engg. colleges need subsidy anyway? Im an engineer and govt. subidized my engg. study. If they had given me loans (which the banks denied at the time) instead of subsidising my study and spent the same money on imparting basic education to Vanaja, maybe they wouldnt have 3 children, maybe they would be better informed on taking loans, better planned on returning it....
RE:RE:'Life has never been so bad'
by anoop prakash on Feb 27, 2007 12:03 AM
i agree to that. the picture would have been definitely diff. if she had only one daughter.
probably the govt should invest in that...
it is not at all so difficult. you can take Kerala for an example
RE:RE:'Life has never been so bad'
by Prem Kumar on Feb 27, 2007 12:07 AM
well said JM. But dont you dare ask Govt such intelligent questions - they love to provide MORE for rich & less for needy.
It has always been our tragic-fate that we provide 12% interest loan for farmers and 3% for mercedes car. Don't anyone dare reply on security of returns - Farmers are poor but hard-working and will pay their debt had the right policy of 'proper procurement' of produces were in place.
RE:'Life has never been so bad'
by Prem Kumar on Feb 27, 2007 12:08 AM
Congratulations Mr. Suresh Pandey - Spoken like a true Bourgoiese. Hell with your I-am-too-rich-to-care-for-these attitude. Please know it is all because of centuries of social setup that todays rich are rich and poor are poor. There is no fate or luck involved, neither much of hard-work.
Youths at one hand now are very senstive to poor and farmer's plight and you are just blot.
RE:'Life has never been so bad'
by Prem Kumar on Feb 27, 2007 12:02 AM
Congratulations Mr. Suresh Pandey - Spoken like a true Bourgoiese. Hell with your I-am-too-rich-to-care-for-these attitude. Please know it is all because of centuries of social setup that todays rich are rich and poor are poor. There is no fate or luck involved, neither much of hard-work.
Youths at one hand now are very senstive to poor and farmer's plight and you are just blot.
RE:'Life has never been so bad'
by Augustine Alemcherry on Feb 26, 2007 11:19 PM
This is totally insensitive. You must consider the social and educational situation before asking such silly questions. Probably 20 years before in their society, 3 kids were normal. or they were in finacially better sitation and didnt expect it to get as bad as it is now. Or they were not educated/ intelligent enough to understand family planning and its importance. Do not compare their needs and earnings with your upper middle class mentality. They are a family of five with four working members. Still if they are stuggling, just understand that there is something seriously wrong with our system.
RE:RE:'Life has never been so bad'
by Sukhwinder on Feb 26, 2007 11:35 PM
No Augustine, it only sounds insensitive.
Suresh is right, what is the point in having children when you cannot provide them a decent, basic standard of living.
Yes, having 3 kids used to be normal. This was purely based on the hope that the situation will improve. But what has improved. Things just keep getting worse.
We've all blamed the system, but how many of us can come up with truly practical, cost-effective solutions?
RE:RE:RE:'Life has never been so bad'
by anoop prakash on Feb 26, 2007 11:58 PM
sukwindwer imagine if that family had only one daughter. dont you think things would have been a little different.????
just a thought.... please do tell me if i am wrong
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:'Life has never been so bad'
by anoop prakash on Feb 27, 2007 12:23 AM
hmmm so we cannot entirely blame the system. The govt do encourage one child family but then it all depends upon the couples also...
so Vanaja should have made a simple calculation. surely you do not need high level education for that.... dont u think so??
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:'Life has never been so bad'
by Easwar Moorthi on Feb 27, 2007 01:16 AM
In my humble opinion, Indians used to think, if we have more kids, then those kids will help the parents in later age..thats the philosophy until government/system developed and people realise retirement plans can help better than their children.. I did have same discussion from a person who is from upper middle class. This is individuals right to have baby and they dont have to really ask the government about having baby. Its a very complicated topic, may be 20 years ago, they can easily manage 2 kids....
We as usual idiotes people keep these things discussing & doing nothing..to be frankly how many people of us go for voting..very few..& sitting in A.C cyber cafe/office we keep discussing these things.. Need to change ourself first..then change the government..& then change the fortune of country..
