Aruna Roy's concern is generally right about SEZ - but the first argument is not correct..! Which organisation / company will allow people to enter its offices without permission? It has nothing to do with SEZ..! Her point that as an Indian citizen, she has right to go to any place in India is a fallacy..! Yes, you have a right - but it is subject to certain permissions..!
Other than the above point - she is right in other aspects. There has to be a rule and an orderliness that should be brought into the process of SEZ - which is increasingly becoming personal fiefdom of people in power.
Re: Not fully right...
by acharya buddhimaan on Oct 18, 2009 03:27 PM
Stupid! Aruna Roy is wearing a watch, a spectacle, saree, bangles and possible slippers and all these are from industries.
Then,
Then drop your clothes and stand like a stone age man. You fit for that!
Why are you wearing clothes, why are you using a desktop, car, building materials, pen, pencil and food processing, hydro-electricity? All these are from industries. You are hypocrite no-1. You use everything from industries but want to deny others. And for travelling you beg for visa for western countries and now you say you want throw western capitalism. If Gandhi was there today, he would have changed his mind.
REMEMBER ASKING COMPENSATION IS DIFFERENT, SAYING NO TO SEZ IS DIFFERENT!
Stop being hypocrite, in the name of mother earth resources. IF YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT MOTHER NATURE, BETTER YOU STOP USING DESKTOP AND ELECTRICITY AND STAND NUDE....BECAUSE EVEN CLOTHES ARE MADE FROM INDUSTRY...(Stupid, you say as if mother nature belongs to you only and not for me or industrialists.)
Re: Re: Not fully right...
by Great Indian on Oct 18, 2009 03:42 PM
My friend... please get your facts and eyesight right first. At no point of time I said SEZ as a concept needs to be stopped. I am not sure if you ever watched what happens in SEZ. I know it - since, I have seen people losing their land to some Political leader in the name of SEZ. Do you know how much tax these companies pay when they take the land in the name of SEZ? Can you even guess why 60% of lands - after being allocated to companies as part of SEZ - would not get occupied at all.?? Do you know what is most precious asset in the 21st Century - Land..! The other factors of production (labour / capital / enterprise) are available and Land is the one which scarce - can you work out the link between this and SEZ now?? SEZ have become the personal properties of people in power - some sort of orderliness has to be brought in to that. Period. Lastly - just because you know a few English words, please don't keep sprinkling everywhere in the name of contradicting others' opinions. That only shows your parocial nature and lack of education - if you know the real meaning of "education"...! We can be civilised even in disagreements.
Re: Re: Re: Not fully right...
by Haramohan Roy on Oct 18, 2009 05:06 PM
Mr Great Indian, words apart - let us not forget the history of Singur. There, some people raised hue and cry and finally scuttled the entire project itself, whereas the need of the hour was to try and work out a more helpful package of compensation for the land-owners! In the final analysis, what those agitators achieved resulted in the loss of industries and growth!
Unless we become wary of people like Aruna Roy, there may be repetitions of this incident!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Not fully right...
by Great Indian on Oct 18, 2009 08:56 PM
Singur is an example of Communists getting a does of their own medicine..! Comparing that with a genuine case of SEZ's process being stremlined is, IMHO, not correct.
Few points: a) SEZ in the initial days of visualisation was right. It really helped to fasten the process of economic development (as I said in one of my posts below).
b) Of late, SEZ is nothing but a tool in the hands of a few local political leaders to grab land and make money. People in some of the areas that have SEZ allocated to them don't even know why the SEZ has been established - yet, they end up losing huge lands - fertile as well..!
c) Some of the Companies that get the lands in the name of creation of employment don't even start the units - everyone knows what is the real motive there..!
In circumstances like this, it is not wrong if some one asks for a more stringent or streamlined process for SEZ.
We should not get into the fallacy that everything that brings development MUST be accepted - "without any strings attached"..!
Let us not forget that the Global economic growth rate of 4 % (for 3-4 consecutive years) was brought about by Real estate boom - when it bombs - we are seeing the effects ... the world is struggling to get out of it - even now..!!!
we must change our way of living with the sole aim of earning of more and more money.....capitalism only aim is to make rich poeple more richer and poor people more poorer......therefore we must disacrd capitalistic systems and make an simple way of living content with nature's wealth rather than living an leisure life with machine made, industry made products.....we must throw away capitalism and western style development to live an simple living like what gandhi had shown to us......our aim should not be earning more and more money......
Re: simple way of living
by Wise Donkey on Oct 18, 2009 03:17 PM
Kalyanji, while I am sympathetic to your view point, it is not as easily done as it is said. Anyway, please note that we cannot completely remove industry from our lives, else we will not be left with any means to defend ourselves against unruly neighbors. Further, practically no body will be willing to sacrifice electricity and generation of electricity needs industry again. Also, how can we discard pharmaceutical industry? I can continue quoting examples to show that so many industries have become necessities that discarding them voluntarily is unthinkable.
Re: Re: simple way of living
by Great Indian on Oct 18, 2009 03:26 PM
I second your point. Just because indutries have become sources for siphoning out public money - let us not get antagonistic about 'Industry' per se..! It's been a proven fact that Capitalism is a faster way of improving economy's Average standard of living (please note the word 'Average' - not saying every one's) - even if it means that it creates more wedges between various layers within society. We can't do away with it altogether. The idea that we should move to a simpler way of living close to nature etc., is more utopian - possible in dreams and great as ideal ... but not practical, I am afraid.
Re: simple way of living
by acharya buddhimaan on Oct 18, 2009 03:24 PM
Then drop your clothes and stand like a stone age man. Shameless Kalyan Ram, you fit for that!
Why are you wearing clothes, why are you using a desktop, car, building materials, pen, pencil and food processing, hydro-electricity? All these are from industries. You are hypocrite no-1. You use everything from industries but want to deny others. And for travelling you beg for visa for western countries and now you say you want throw western capitalism. If Gandhi was there today, he would have changed his mind.
REMEMBER ASKING COMPENSATION IS DIFFERENT, SAYING NO TO SEZ IS DIFFERENT!
Stop being hypocrite, in the name of mother earth resources. IF YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT MOTHER NATURE, BETTER YOU STOP USING DESKTOP AND ELECTRICITY AND STAND NUDE....BEING EVEN CLOTHES ARE MADE FROM INDUSTRY...(Stupid, you say as if mother nature belongs to you only and not for me or industrialists.)
Re: Re: simple way of living
by Great Indian on Oct 18, 2009 03:29 PM
Not sure if this opinion had to be put across in such harsh words - "shameless" / "Stupid" etc.,
We can be civilised even when we disagree with others' opinions... isn't it?
Re: simple way of living
by Samir Moosa on Oct 18, 2009 03:43 PM
Very sorry to say, but Gandhiji never promoted throwing away capitalism. His best friends were the likes of Birla and Bajaj. He himself earned handsomely when he was a lawyer in South Africa. He gave up Western Clothes only to highlight his unison with the poor in India and also since that would cause a huge loss to the cloth mills of "Manchester". Equal distribution of resources rather than wealth is important as that gives rise to equal opportunities. Petty dharnas with images splashed all across the internet and cable tv are nothing but a part of showbiz. The Mahatma was resolute in his thinking and his idea of non-cooperation and Satyagraha were unique in that day and age. A new mindset with a fresh idea to lead the populace is necessary. Earlier there was the Rennaissance, Socialist revolution, Satyagraha. Now there is no great thinker alive in this world who can actually change things with his thinking.
More than 70% of Indians live in village; so does more than 70% of GDP depends on farm revenue.
How come India afford to exploit farmers and farmland for SEZ.
Let the Government go and mark the barren lands as SEZ..noone will be affected; no one will raise issues - so is the case for many of SEZs around Chennai; No farming done on those lands - noone complained; happy with money they got.
But exploiting hi-rich fertile lands in Andhra Pradesh, Bengal .etc for SEZ doesn't make any sense and pure exploitation.
This must be stopped.
Dr.Manmohan Singh is respectful and courageous leader making strong decision in the wealth and health of the country. As he had voted against river unification due to environmental disaster consequences, I hope he streamlines SEZ process to rational approach.
Re: how farmland can be exploited
by acharya buddhimaan on Oct 18, 2009 02:47 PM
China being communist country has created SEZ despite communists represent largely farmers and peasants.
What's wrong with you guys? Fighting for proper compensation is different, say NO to SEZ is different. By say no, you are telling that the country has to live like in 18th century!!!
Re: Re: how farmland can be exploited
by kalyan ram on Oct 18, 2009 03:09 PM
can you tell me where this so called industrial development will end?.....will it end after destroying all the mother earth's resources?.....we must be content with mother nature's resources not be greedy to earn more money and lead an pleasurable life....throwing capitalism is the way out.....that means iam not saying we go socialist way.....rather than capitalistic or socialistic we must lead an simple way of living....
Re: Re: Re: how farmland can be exploited
by acharya buddhimaan on Oct 18, 2009 03:17 PM
Why are you wearing clothes, why are using a desktop, car, building materials, pen, pencil and food processing, hydro-electricity? All these are from industries.
Stop being hypocrite, in the name of mother earth resources. IF YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT MOTHER NATURE, BETTER YOU STOP USING DESKTOP AND ELECTRICITY AND STAND NUDE....BEING EVEN CLOTHES ARE MADE FROM INDUSTRY...(Stupid, you say if mother nature belongs to you only and not for me or industrialists..rubbish fellow)
Re: Re: how farmland can be exploited
by acharya buddhimaan on Oct 18, 2009 02:53 PM
Adding more, people like you want the country to be dependent on agriculture. You can not imagine India to be superpower by agriculture alone. You need services and industry. And you guys are creating trouble by opposing India to be industrial giant. Contribution of agriculture to China's GDP is just 10% while India's it is around 22%. In USA and Europe it is 2%! You guys take India to perpetual slavery and dark age!!
India is not facing any food shortage, the problem is with providing water to the non-arable land. Out of 329 Mha only 150 Mha is arable in India..so still 150 Mha is left without water where if you provide water you can still have more agriculture. So guys think and do not think narrow-minded like Aruna Roy!!
This lady who left IAS in 1975 is bogus. She says politicians need to be educated! What rubbish? Why do not she campaign and educate people to elect educated contenders? She says RTI is a good job done by Government. Then why do not she file an RTI and find out who is exporting what in SEZ? SEZ is for the country not for the village or for any individual. If there is any drawback in rehabilitation, she should ask for proper compensation, and NOT that SEZ should be stopped. She has short sighted view on the country as a whole! She does not spell out how the country has to grow. China being a communist country had to abandon it's ideology to embrace market reforms and private investment. SEZ is a concept from CHINA not USA. So where does this bogus Aruna Roy stand when a communist country like China is created SEZ forget a democratic India.
For Aruna Roy, when Govt listens to her, she is satisfied, when Govt says she is wrong, then the same Govt and democracy becomes fascist!!! She is bogus.
oh sure it is. in fact it ismore than that.the most selfish,selfcentred act for the higher ups,by the higher ups and of the higher ups.It does not serve the general purpose of the common citizen.In the name of export, lot of advantages are being enjoyed by the industrialists. Look at agriculture, where it is gone... taken over by high rise buildings,flyovers... so.. we get Dal at Rs.100 kg,onions at 50 per kg ... hail democracy and secularism of the government . Make hay while the sun shines... is the motto of the politicians abhay ekbote
Re: this kind of democracy is fascism
by raj on Oct 18, 2009 02:09 PM
In democracy, leaders are face of society....Don't blame leaders, blame our society, our culture and traditions.
Re: Re: this kind of democracy is fascism
by dot net on Oct 18, 2009 02:45 PM
well said. Actually its always convenient to blame others.. or sometimes it is hard to look in the mirror.
Re: this kind of democracy is fascism
by Samir Moosa on Oct 18, 2009 02:16 PM
When you speak of 100 Rs./kg dal, you forget to mention that your salary which was 8000 per month till 5 years back is now 35000 a month. The GDP-PPP has gone up from USD $ 1750.00 in 1999 to USD $ 3750.00 in 2008. So when you earn more, you spend more. Thats the outcome on inflation. You want 35000 salary and want to spend 2000 rupees a month at home, that is called selfish and self centered.
Re: Re: this kind of democracy is fascism
by kalyana sundaram on Oct 18, 2009 02:29 PM
hey samir, remember 40% of indians are poor and 30% of world poverty is in india... u have food on ur plate, a roof over ur head and a internet connection to say MANY indians get 35000 per month... wherelse for the 40% of indians, even 3 square meals is a dream.
Re: Re: Re: this kind of democracy is fascism
by Samir Moosa on Oct 18, 2009 03:35 PM
40% of Indians are poor agreed. They get subsidised - rationed food grains, sugar and cooking oil which are at nearly 30% of the market price. The idea of any government to eliminate poverty is by increasing employment for which the current government brought out schemes like the NREGA. As for the agricultural-land issue, if one acre of land generates 1000$ worth of income in a year (for example) and if the same land generates 10000$ a year, which would suit better?? The government has to make money to feed everyone. But if its projects are stalled or delayed due to public outcries over petty issues like "right of movement", then what can the government do?? I would, for example, never visit the SEZ land in Uran (near Bombay) for anything in this world. So how can this "Act" affect my freedom of movement at all?? That place holds no meaning to me, except that it is a part of my country. What Ms. Aruna forgets is that even to visit the Reliance plant in Jamnagar she has to take permission from a concerned department. Does that mean that Reliance restricts freedom of movement?? In an industrial zone, no one goes for picnic.
Re: this kind of democracy is fascism
by acharya buddhimaan on Oct 18, 2009 02:42 PM
Stupid...where do you work by the way? In agriculture???? or industry..?? Look at our enemy China, how it became ecomonic giant by putting up SEZ being a communist country!!
Parliament is not absolute and the same was convincingly argued by Nani Palkhivala in defence of fundamental rights.
1. Here we have a farcical govt who backtracks to put a flyover because a filmi songstress says she will leave the city if you put it there; and the same govt doesn’t hesitate to run flyovers through the poor peoples apartments so close that if a vehicle loses control it will ram directly into the bed room of the denizen living there.
2. The Govt doesn’t hesitate to shift tribals and adivasis from their own lands where they were living thousands of years to some other places just to provide water to a Kutch region hundreds of miles away from these tribals regions. And they call it development; this development is for whom? These tribals are not the beneficiaries of these projects the so called wealthy people in Kutch are the beneficiaries and these tribals are forced to migrate to foreign lands where they have to live in alien conditions amid strangers in inhuman conditions.
3. Who gave the Govt the power to ruin farm lands to create SEZs and give them away to private industrialists who later sell to Real Estate Developers and pocket 50% of the proceeds in cash in their pockets?
4. You already have seen this happening in cities like Bombay where Industrialists who were granted lands for factories long ago selling them to real estate developers and pocketing the 50% cash deals and relocating the plants to somewhere else and getting subsid
we must stop and look at what we are doing to mother earth instead of swept away by market economy or commercialism in the name of jobs......SEZ's churn out products at cheaper rate in indian fertile lands and sell it at higher rate in foreign countries......see what green revolution had done?.....the excessive use of chemicals had severely degraded fertile lands in india and scientists are advising farmers to go back to traditional methods.....we must find other ways to earn living other than market economy or capitalism....we must live a simple living and not be greedy to earn more money.....we must not follow western style of industrialisation.....india should develop at its own pace not by rapid industrialisation displacing village people, farmers out of their livelihood in the name of SEZ's
The founding fathers of constitution had pious wish to ensure independence of Audit from executive control. But that could never happen as in independent India no political party rose to that height to lead a clean administration. Over the years independence of Audit has suffered further erosion. The need of the hour is to strengthen Audit and make it free from control of excecutive government. On EPZ the audit objections are valid and it trequires to be studied seriously for implementation.
SEZ act will yield good results if not exploited but fallen into hands of right guys. Who will regulate and oversee them?. Ulitmately, it is our collapsed and corrupted bureaucracy who will rule over SEZ. People want jobs. Companies want land.Our political leaders wants 10% commission , and so are grabbling lands of poor. As SEZ act is providing provision of everything free for the companies, what if the company doesnt generate enough employment or jobs ?. Can we trust our corrupted politicians and bureaucrats to oversee that properly?. This is just a BALL game of Capitalization WIN over Communism. Capitalization will rule as long as it generates wealth. We dont have right politicians to act when capitalization doesnt generates the wealth.
Who will understand you Aruna Roy when majority of indians in villages dont understand the purpose of democracy?.What did indians do when Right to Property is annuled by Indira Gandhi?.Imagine the same with Right to Movement fate too.
How many of people understand Right to Information act?. Even if it is implemented properly, only educated people can make use of that. Unless people are educated, dont you think, this will become a source of income for collapsed and corrupted judiciary, politicians to scare everyone?. Dont you think, this act can be used as a weapon to blackmail the opponents,ignorants or illiterates by educated bureaucrats?.
I feel Right to Education(RTE) is the act which has to be taken to the people FIRST.
