Re: What is caste system and why it is bad????
by Sudershan Shukla on May 15, 2010 07:17 PM
This is a silly concept.aimed at dividing Hindu society. Army consisted of mainly kshatriyas is true. But not 100%. All the other casts were also fighting. Else there would not be kingdoms of other backward classes. Read your history properly. Krishna was a yadava. Nandas were not kshatriya. There are umpteen examples. You are blind to reality. India started loosing battles after the Ahimsa influence of Gautama Budha. Earlier every one was a fighter in his own right. Every one carried his own arms. We must aim to achieve that arms carrying status and then no terrorist will date step onto our soil. Reform yourself first then become eligible to be called a reformer.
Re: What is caste system and why it is bad????
by JustToHammer on May 15, 2010 08:40 PM
Castes and Vernas are different. Vernas change. Mayawati according to you should be Kshatriya as long as she is ruling. Kshatriya is not a caste. Brahmin is not a caste. Anyone doing religious duties can be a brahmin. A dalit can be a brahmin if he does religious duties.
I dont understand whom they are campaign against in their "campaign against caste", in India caste is something you are born with. Its something equivalent to among Europeans French and a Dutch. An Indian census without the caste will be always incomplete. If they want to remove caste they why dont they remove language / religion / etc. which are as bigger a problem as caste.
The reason for the campaign is because of the government schemes that may come for the benefit of the masses. Infact the caste based inhibition and oppression where more relevant and severe through the ages which none of these intellectual campaigners what to even discuss
Re: I dont understand - campaign against caste
by dharmendra jadoun on May 15, 2010 07:14 PM
i'm sick of seeing this argument that someone is deprived from centuries ?
if someone is not deprived today - that is fine with me. if someone say 500 or 1000 years back what mugals did and blame on current muslim then it is wrong... same is true for cats too.
Its only the poor people who suffer irrespective of their cast.
It is the educated (upper cast) people who supported the reforms and purpose was not to tilt the cast table making lower as upper and upper as lower the purpose was to remove the cast systems as it is man made and gone beyond reasonable social limits.
Re: Re: I dont understand - campaign against caste
by vishal gupta on May 15, 2010 07:33 PM
I don't see anything wrong in this. This has to be looked with a broad concept... This will help the government to look after the deprived community in our system more effectively. The policies made for the deprived communities will reach in more effective and efficient way. Caste is something we are born with. We are ready to mention it any other document when applying for any government job, then why not during the census. Government will be able to know whether the reservations have really helped the SC & STs or not. And even they will be able to know whether the person or any community really requires reservation or not. Also, it will be easier to distinguish which region has benefited from reservation and which region still needs. I really think this should happen as it will help in abolishing the reservation from our system in the long run. About me, I treat all the people equal. But for our society to treat all the people equal we need to develop people of all the caste, religion, creed etc and for this it is need of the hour that census to be caste based. Rather census will be covering all the important details. By the way in our small family no one is married in the same caste. Neither am I proud of being from the caste which I belong, I am proud being an Indian. Vishal Gupta
Re: Re: I dont understand - campaign against caste
by Leoorn on May 15, 2010 07:32 PM
where were you feeling sick or your grand father feeling sick .... when this was happenning ????
Re: Re: Re: I dont understand - campaign against caste
by dharmendra jadoun on May 15, 2010 07:39 PM
idiot any individual is responsible for his own deeds ...
do you even know the name of your grand father's grandfather ?
Re: Re: Re: Re: I dont understand - campaign against caste
by Leoorn on May 15, 2010 08:15 PM
I may not know what is his name ... But I Know what he and others like him must have had to go thru ....
One who is a student of the GITA can see the definition given by Sri Krishna. It was based on the duties one performed- a teacher, a warrior, a trader and those who serve. Nothing to do with any other basis of division or definition.
Re: What are castes in Hinduism
by JustToHammer on May 15, 2010 08:52 PM
Castes were born before Sri Krishna was born. He was also born in one caste. Attaching Gita for castes shows your ignorance.
naah. Its like you are giving free booz to a drunkard and then asking him to give up alcohol. The freebies associated with castes - free jobs, seats in colleges, promotions, election seats - what not - are all way too attractive to be forefeited. And our garnage netas are last in the line when it comes to self respect and shame.
This disease will continue until some dictator comes forth and takes over India.
Re: Against caste ?
by Leoorn on May 15, 2010 06:51 PM
Democracy in India has infact pulled india out of the clutches of the dictators such as the forward class and the rulling class people who were oppression the people of India over centuries
Re: Re: Against caste ?
by subra on May 15, 2010 07:07 PM
but today politicians are looting these so called downcaste,lowercastes and they have become uppercastes and your so called oppressors have all left india and enjoying better life and wealth.by keeping the quotas alive,they are ensuring you are down and out
Re: Against caste ?
by JustToHammer on May 15, 2010 08:53 PM
Then, you will have to fight for equal opportunities instead of against caste. If caste is winning politicians, why would these many religions born in india.
There is nothing wrong in this as it will help the govt in planning ways to help those castes that have thru the ages been oppressed,more efficiently.Rediff should not take up such a silly campaign.
Re: Caste census is essential
by pulomavi on May 15, 2010 06:10 PM
What way they have been OPPRESSED ? That too for AGES ? What are you ? SOme 250 year old ?
On the pretext of OPPRESSION, the so called castes are enjoying daamat like status in India depriving hard working people their due.
What way will it serve if a particular caste - say , kshatriyas comprise of 33% or population and Brahmins 20% and Bhumihaars 40 % ? WIll the govt allocate funds in that proportion ?
Or is it that you argue for more back door entries through this disease called 'reservations' ?
Re: Re: Caste census is essential
by JustToHammer on May 15, 2010 08:55 PM
Kshatriya and Brahmin are vernas and not castes. Any person including dalit can do religious duties to become brahmin.
Any caste can be part of Kshatriya during that time. Distinguish caste and vernas first.
Re: Re: Caste census is essential
by cbk bk on May 15, 2010 07:25 PM
you want to know what way they were opressed: 1. my grandfather was not allowed to enter a temple 2. my grandmother was not allowed to draw water from the village well 3. my grandmother was not allowed to wash her clothes in the village's common washing area 4. my father was beaten and made to sit outside the door in school and eventually thrown out 5. the "chariot" for carrying the dead which is available for the people in our village was not given for my cousin's last rites 6 and sir these are only tip of the iceberg.
now you guys are feeling the pain! i wouldn't mind reservations being ended, but everytime i see losers like u who cant even accept the wrongs that have been committed, i feel that u guys shud be made to suffer some more.
Re: Caste census is essential
by vishal gupta on May 15, 2010 07:37 PM
I agree with you and have just posted this msg above... I don't see anything wrong in this. This has to be looked with a broad concept... This will help the government to look after the deprived community in our system more effectively. The policies made for the deprived communities will reach in more effective and efficient way. Caste is something we are born with. We are ready to mention it any other document when applying for any government job, then why not during the census. Government will be able to know whether the reservations have really helped the SC & STs or not. And even they will be able to know whether the person or any community really requires reservation or not. Also, it will be easier to distinguish which region has benefited from reservation and which region still needs. I really think this should happen as it will help in abolishing the reservation from our system in the long run. About me, I treat all the people equal. But for our society to treat all the people equal we need to develop people of all the caste, religion, creed etc and for this it is need of the hour that census to be caste based. Rather census will be covering all the important details. By the way in our small family no one is married in the same caste. Neither am I proud of being from the caste which I belong, I am proud being an Indian. Vishal Gupta
Re: Caste census is essential
by Bishwanath Chatterjee on May 15, 2010 06:24 PM
Mr Naveen one vacume will create another vacume. You cant lift any body by subcidy or reservation.Sun light is for all plant it plant capacity how strenght he has. Even after 60 years reservation you did not lift the situation then what is your bench mark.
Re: Caste census is essential
by Bishwanath Chatterjee on May 15, 2010 06:25 PM
Mr Naveen one vacume will create another vacume. You cant lift any body by subcidy or reservation.Sun light is for all plant it plant capacity how strenght he has. Even after 60 years reservation you did not lift the situation then what is your bench mark.
Re: Re: Caste census is essential
by k e on May 15, 2010 07:16 PM
let all the upper c aste people will have the courage to eat and marry girls, guys in low caste irrespective of their status , then we will talk about the reservation cancellation
Re: Re: Re: Re: Caste census is essential
by naveen mohan on May 16, 2010 12:13 AM
when i say it is essential i mean that it is for now.no one can agree that lower castes have been treated equally till somewhat recently. refer cbk bk and vishal guptas replies before u take such a narrow opinion.kudos to vishal for expressing it so articulately
@biswanath:Imust politely disagree:your metaphor is valid only when all plants get an equal amount of sunlight.when they have a fair chance each
@pulomavi:check what % of the lower castes are educated,have as much income as the higher castes.The figures speak for themselves. I do not want backdoor entries any more than you do but the fact remains that everyone has to have an equal chance at a better life,jobs etc.and for now the reservations are the only way i see that this will happen.
Face the truth: india is not one country Why it happens in india that if home minister is tamilian then home secretry is also tamilian. In any company if there is tamilian VP then most of the managers and team members will be tamilian. Also look at IPL,previous chairamn was gujarati,new chairman is gujarati his advisor is gujarati and vice chairman of IPL is also gujarati. The truth is in india no one trust each other and nothing wrong in caste based census.
Re: Face the truth: india is not one country
by subra on May 15, 2010 07:13 PM
pillai is malayalee probably and not a tamil.tamils are all over whether minster is tamil or not.they are intelligent,hard working,sincere
Re: Face the truth: india is not one country
by Rohit Panicker on May 15, 2010 06:15 PM
previous cairman of IPL was marwari mnot gujrati. Either u r mussie or paki.
Re: Hinduism is based on Caste System
by Rohit Panicker on May 15, 2010 06:17 PM
first accept it as Hindu contry. If govt. is secular its policies also must be secular.
Re: Hinduism is based on Caste System
by JustToHammer on May 15, 2010 08:59 PM
Caste system is older than Hinduism. Infact, Hindu word was tossed by Maharastrian in 20th century. There is no religion called Hinduism. It is just a word tossed to include all people living across Indus river. Current Hinduism is collection of rituals of various castes... Caste is a reality and Hinduism is force on castes. Castes census is must...
Re: Hinduism is based on Caste System
by pulomavi on May 15, 2010 06:20 PM
Hinduism does not promote casteism. Aszhole like you do - for reservations , for freebies etc. You go and enter every thing back door and then talk like Einstein against the caste system.
if strict merit is criteria, 90% of you scum bags will be out. Thank your stars for being Indian.
Re: Re: Hinduism is based on Caste System
by kedar bhide on May 15, 2010 06:30 PM
The politicians have already succeeded in dividing us. Just read the comments people are making. It is clearly an open debate between OPEN Category on one side & the RESERVED Category guys on the other side.
Although one must accept the fact that we are having this debate bcoz our RESERVED Category Brothers got the opportunity to have the same education as OPEN Category people BCOZ of RESERVATIONS. But will these same people be honest enough not to take reservation for their children...Only their Conscience can tell!!
Re: Re: Re: Hinduism is based on Caste System
by k e on May 15, 2010 07:16 PM
let all the upper c aste people will have the courage to eat and marry girls, guys in low caste irrespective of their status , then we will talk about the reservation cancellation
Re: Re: Re: Hinduism is based on Caste System
by kalyan krishnan on May 15, 2010 07:00 PM
Conscience? You expect people like Laloo, Mulayam, Ram Vilas Paswan and Mayawathi to have conscience? They are the one who are spreading this canard that upper caste hindus will deprive their lower caste brethern their legitimate dues and these goons are their saviours for their votes.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Hinduism is based on Caste System
by k e on May 15, 2010 07:15 PM
let all the upper c aste people will have the courage to eat and marry girls, guys in low caste irrespective of their status , then we will talk about the reservation cancellation
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hinduism is based on Caste System
by alok bhagat on May 15, 2010 07:24 PM
marriage is personal issue do not mix it in this discussion. It is about who needs the reformative policies and who not.
Re: Re: Hinduism is based on Caste System
by vishal gupta on May 15, 2010 07:49 PM
Mr Pulomavi, I belong to a General Category, still I support reservations for the SCs and STs. I have seen deprived communities developing and leading a respectable life because of the reservations. We always had all the facilities in the world and that is why we were able to compete and reach wherever we are. But, go to the villages, tribal areas of the country where basic amenities have not reached even today. They don't have electricity, proper food, etc etc... Just imaging studying in those conditions, how in the world you think SCs and STs will be able to compete with us ... it was really reqd for the Government to come up with something which could help the deprived to develop and compete with the present world. Do you really think the competence level of the Government educated and Private School educated student is same, answer is no... How in the world will they able to take up the higher education, answer is only reservation. I know many undeserving also take benefit of that but tell is there any other effective way to really develop the SC and ST population of this country.
Distinguishing people on the basis of religion, caste, creed, reservations, and languages is actually dividing the people of India by vested interest groups. If one wants to provide relief to the under privileged people of India then the only criteria to be used is economic conditions. People who are economic weak should benefit irrespective of their caste, religion etc. We do not have different types of tax rates for Hindus, Muslims, Christens and Sikhs. We all pay tax on the basis of income earned i.e. higher income groups pay high taxes and lower income groups pay low tax, similarly the benefits should flow more to the lower income groups and not on the basis of castes . This will ensure
1. Unity 2. National integrity 3. Peace 4. Love 5. ; Above all it will show the true performance of the Government what they have done for the welfare of the poor.
Re: caste is cancer
by JustToHammer on May 15, 2010 09:03 PM
Constitution by paper provided for equal rights to indians irrespective of caste, and religion. But our politicians have created separate laws based on religions and never reach benefits of constitutional rights to majority of indians. Caste census will highlight how much justice has been done right from independence.
