admittedly rahul gandhi came to lime light because of his family background and surname. why not others be given special treatment, say they can win by lesser votes and need get majority. inequality is natural phinomena but justice is to to be done to every one by ensuring basic amenities and honourable humane living,getting rid of untouchbility etc.
RE:sc,reservation, equality
by Sahadevan KK on Apr 12, 2008 01:33 PM
Today, a lot of people discuss about creamy layer. What is the creamy layer?
Creamy layer is a layer like the same on milk. As we know, the layer is created after mixing milk very well.
Sangh Parivar does the same thing. First divide people in Dalit, Christian, Muslim, SC, ST, common man, upper caste, etc. in separate columns. Then create communal violence in its own community like Godhra train carnage. Then the leaders have no work, but sit back. Mad people of the communities will do their work. After a short while, a juicy cream of blood and body will be created. In the previous years, that was used a lot to fulfill the leader's desire.
The recent verdict with reference to OBC reservation is only a constitutional validation of what executive has done and it has nothing to do with doing justice to really backward people or some thing else.If the executive decides some thing by way of absolute backing of elected representatives and some body opposes it then court will only do constitutional validation of that provision and that is what is done now. It is the people who decides which is best for them not the courts.At this point in time we the people of India have given mandate that reservations are needed at higher education levels.In democracy numbers matters and those who want this bill have enough representation in the house to get it passed.This is all about fighting for ones share of the pie and the ones who are divided are the ones that loose.One has to understand that courts in Indian democracy has very limited scope of validating the executive decisions with regard to written constitution and are not in the business of deciding what is best for people of India.This is done only by the elected executive.All the interested groups need to think in this direction and align towards their common interests being represented in house ,only then things will change. Regarding this article, the author has proved his ignorance and short sightedness beyond doubt 1) by ignoring the vital questions regarding the injustice done to unreserved capable poor lads who do not get any support from any one. 2) By blindly supp
Of what use is reservation in higher education when the very foundation of education is shaky? The author is glossing over this fact, glorifying the decision of the Supreme Court of allowing reservation at higher levels! Will this really create a level playing field? No government is taking steps to improve the primary education, which is the foundation for higher education. When the foundation is made strong, no reservation will be required at the higher levels. What is the standard of Corporation and Government Schools? You have classrooms without infrastructure, schools without teachers and so on. Even the teachers are playing truant in these schools. To add insult to injury, already Karunanidhi and his ilk have sounded the bugle against the exculsion of the creamy layer in the Supreme Court judgement. After all, these politicians know which side of the bread is buttered. Take Tamilnadu for example. Reservation has played a major role in this State and the forward class (read Brahmins, the pet hatred of the Dravidians, especially Karunanidhi)are nowhere in the picture. In spite of this, you find the politicians creating reservations within reservations - for OBCs, SCs, STs, Muslims, Christians, Dalit Muslims, Dalit Christians - without any end. More and more classes and castes and minorities are added to share the pie (or, shall we say share the spoils). Even communities who have benefitted and have a social status do not want to be removed from the reservations. Joke.
RE:Reservation without proper foundation!
by Vijay B on Apr 12, 2008 10:48 AM
Very rightly put. Reservations will not bring equality in the society. Discremenation against the weaker section of the society as practised earlier was clearly wrong. Now what we are having is anti-discremenation discremantion. Two wrongs will not make a right.
RE:Reservation without proper foundation!
by Vijay B on Apr 13, 2008 02:59 AM
What was I thinking when I typed the above?? I didn't mean to scold you Dear duplicate Vijay B.. what you said was right.. I think, I was hasty and misread what you said.. sorry.
Supreme court's judgement that caste is valid basis to provide positive discrimination is correct, in agreement with the constitution. But on the other hand, by laying down condition of "creamy layer" they took away the gist of reservation and invalidated the judgement itself.
The court goes on, with no shame, by ruling to transfer unfilled seats back to the upper castes. It is common knowledge that upper caste entrants to the higher education come from affluent background. But in case of lower castes, the court disqualify such candidates. It is clear that these judges want the lower castes to fill low level jobs and preserve managerial positions for the upper castes. Shame on them. It's time for people's representatives to rise and call the bluff.
RE:Conspiracy of creamy layer
by Kris iyer on Apr 12, 2008 09:07 AM
Dear On, No need to convert "Reservation Politics" into a war of upper and lower castes. Let us not fall into the trap set by the Congress Party to maintain divisions in Hindu society for ever. We are all agreed that economically disadvantaged people should be helped. We are saying the economic factor should be the ONLT factor. You have also brought in the economic factor. To your eyes, it seems ALL upper caste entrants come from "affluent" backgrounds (Did you come to that conclusion from the iPods they were having?). Are you also saying that ALL entrants from "lower" castes are from poor backgrounds? (They don't carry iPods?) I believe, there are ways of helping our fellow Indians, of all castes, but who are economically struggling. But reservation is NOT the way. It has been proved in practice, over the last 60 years that the "reservation" business is only politics. It has not worked to benefit the vast percentage of "backward" castes. It has managed to de-moralise thousands of young people, from ALL castes. It is psychologically damaging to be called "backward", even more damaging to be told, "you can get into tertiary education with about 45% marks", even further damaging to be told, "We will give you this job, then promote you, whatever your performance, in the "reserved quota". We will never get your performance evaluated by anybody, because you will say that we are mistreating you on account of your caste". Frankly, I would NOT want to go through my entire life like
RE:RE:Conspiracy of creamy layer
by Kris iyer on Apr 12, 2008 09:15 AM
CONTINUED:... that feeling that I am relying on my caste to get by. Everyone should have a sense of dignity. That dignity I can maintain without having to sit as an "officer" in some government office. I can keep my dignity in some profession that I am good at. I know a painter of houses, an OBC caste person, he says, he earns about Rs.30,000 (Thirty thousand rupiah) a month. He has a small house, a car and two m/cycles. He says he will get two sons to join him in his business, as soon as they finish their 10th. No IIT or IIM for them. But in today's India, with his two sons helping him, my friend, the house-painting contractor, can make ONE LAKH a month. What is wrong with his life?
RE:RE:RE:Conspiracy of creamy layer
by dilip kumar patnaik on Apr 12, 2008 10:23 AM
you are writing from your heart " What is more important, it rejects a facile notion of 'equality' as requiring equal treatment of those unequally situated. Rather, it is based on a notion of equality that recognises the vast inequality that exists in Indian society, an equality of status and opportunity in all fields of life for a poor guy
RE:Conspiracy of creamy layer
by mahabodhi on Apr 12, 2008 11:09 AM
You are nost welcomed to become a Painter ,painting walls!Let God ensure your wish that your childern also become painters doing white-washing!and earn their living hinestly instead of woking in corrupt Govt. offices and makin money illegally!Amen!
RE:RE:Conspiracy of creamy layer
by mahabodhi on Apr 12, 2008 11:13 AM
Painting job message was formr IYER the and sons painter co. !Painting white washing at discount!Amen!
RE:Conspiracy of creamy layer
by Kris iyer on Apr 12, 2008 12:23 PM
Dear Mahabodhi, You are, unfortunately caste-minded, more than Arjun Singh. I am not interested in personalising an important issue for India. My painter friend also will deny that everyone in his OBC caste should stick to painting. If my sons and I had thought we were good at painting, in modern India, I would not have hesitated to show my talents in that direction. I also know an Iyer, who is a dealer in leather goods. He is good at it. His sons will not be applying to IIT. I would be the last one to suggest any caste-based occupations. I was asking people to see what they are good at. If a "backward" caste person is good at studies and wants to join IITs and IIM, why should he or she need "reservations"? If I think I am good at something I should be happy to compete on my real qualities. If I needed reservations, that means I am not the best for that job. You see the trouble is there are lots of Mahabodhis in India who walk around with only anger and suspicion of certain other castes. You can dispel this anger and suspicion only if you open your minds. Or else, all you achieve is the small satisfaction of insulting some people in the indiaabroad.com, you think are "upper castes" - against reservation. Of course, someone who is interested in the truth is not going to learn it from those who are insulting him or her. Only patient debate will bring out some lasting understanding.
is this will provide the opportunity to learn higher education? How can a caste be a criteria to judge the admission..even if you give admission ..can they give justification? It will eventually devalue prestegious degree..we achive not more than that...I would think..u are increasing unemployement by giving the reservation...people are happily coming to istitutions and not learning any thing..do u think they will get into TOP MNCs and will serve for country...I do not think so..if u really want help backward class..try give the economical arm and encourage them to get to there...then they will learn some thing and that is useful for them as well country.
once after I read first paragraph , I sensed that u r favoring some body...Foolish politicians..foolish govenment and foolish Writer....
Guys & Gals .. I am requesting only thing everybody. if we want to see brighter society..and we if we do not want see these again... Please VOTE. Choose best politicians unlike Arjun Singh...Our middle class should have active part...then politicans will start thinking about us ...
RE:Think Before U write
by mahabodhi on Apr 12, 2008 11:19 AM
Mr.Rao do you mean that those who work in MNC's only do good for country!Middle class bourgeios and Kulaks have been a curse to this great Nation !and since indepndance been enjoying at cost of common man !Do u have KAMWALI BAI at your home mr. rao!How much u pay her!do u pay her provident fund!do u give her five days a week job!is her job secure !do u give her free medical!do u give her even uniform!Ask and then write your messages!A man who thinks that Only MNC;s are doing work for an alien country is a big fool!They the MNC's only import their products here and sell to Indians!Jai Hind!
RE:Think Before U write
by Kaushik Das on Apr 13, 2008 01:01 AM
betaa, agar mnc naheen honge to bahut log bai rakhne laayak bhee naheen honge - phir un logon kaa pet kaise palegaa?
besides, that is an unorganised sector. so, no medicals, PF, etc. no job security. at the same time, if they want to change jobs, they also need not give one month's notice and need not do any KT for their replacement. They also won't accept any payment cuts based on too many casual leaves. They also get a lot of freebies like food, clothes, etc, which MNC employees don't get. There is no quality check on their work either like MNCs. So, while their job is not secure, it is not demanding either.
Parliament and supreme court are the temples of democracy and by passing biased laws they have have become the slaughter houses of democracy. Reservation system is legalizing non-merit based system to protect populist politicians like Aaj Ka Arjun (Arjun Singh) who never bothered to win any popular elections and still talks big like a true popular figure and if all he is the enemy of meritocracy in the union. Should I believe there is no caste based discrimination in India? Well one should be blind to say that but giving away seats based on the caste is definitely the solution. Instead of giving insentives to compete like providing economic insentives to the deserving students of any class or caste and more so to t he weaker sections, these fallen institutions of decmocracy are killing the merit vis a vis India's competitive edge in the industry. Now they want to implement this failed policty in the private colleges. How constitutional is this? What about merit and what about freedom to choose. To placate quick fortune seekers without merit, these fallen angels like Aaj Ka Arjun, are determined merit based system to the political quota raj. the real enemy of the merit system was Vishwanath Pratap Singh but now it is institutinalized by supreme court. So in modern India or advanced India the mantra is not merit but caste, not compettion but quotas. India's sompetitive edge will be dimmer in forseeable future thanks to its populist corrupt politicinas
The Ant works hard in the withering heat all summer building its house and laying up supplies for the winter.
The Grasshopper thinks the Ant is a fool and laughs & dances & plays the summer away.
Come winter, the Ant is warm and well fed. The Grasshopper has no food or shelter so he dies out in the cold.
We all are aware of this old Story and the moral of "WORK HARD AND EARN YOUR BREAD".
Now goes the modern version....
The Ant works hard in the withering heat all summer building its house and laying up supplies for the winter.
The Grasshopper thinks the Ant's a fool and laughs & dances & plays the summer away.
Come winter, the shivering Grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the Ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.
NDTV, Star News, Aajtak, Tej, Headlines, show up to provide pictures of the shivering Grasshopper next to a video of the Ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.
The World is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be that this poor Grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?
Arundhati Roy stages a demonstration in front of the Ant's house.
Medha Patkar goes on a fast along with other Grasshoppers demanding that Grasshoppers be relocated to warmer climates during winter.
RE:Ant and Grasshopper...........
by Vijay B on Apr 12, 2008 12:49 AM
Amnesty International and United Nation criticize the Indian Government for not upholding the fundamental rights of the Grasshopper.
The Internet is flooded with online petitions seeking support to the Grasshopper (many promising Heaven and Everlasting Peace for prompt support as against the wrath of God for non-compliance).
Indian Television channels conduct SMS survey on who is right and Ant wins with huge margin.
Opposition MPs stage a walkout. Left parties call for Bharat Bandh in West Bengal wuth Kerala demanding a Judicial Enquiry.
CPM in Kerala immediately passes a law preventing Ants from working hard in the heat so that Ants become poor. Next, they pass a law mandating all Ants to work and give away their food to the Grasshoppers so as to seek "retribution" for the Grasshoppers' misery.
Laloo Prasad allocates one free coach to Grasshoppers on all Indian Railway Trains, aptly named as the Grasshopper Rath.
Finally, the Judicial Committee drafts the Prevention of Terrorism Against Grasshoppers Act' or POTAGA, with effect from the beginning of the winter.
Arjun Singh sets up Special Reservation for Grasshoppers in Educational Institutions & Government Services.
The Ant is fined for failing to comply with POTAGA and having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, has his home confiscated by the Government and handed over to the Grasshopper in a ceremony covered by TV News Channels and the media.
RE:Ant and Grasshopper...........
by satyarthi on Apr 12, 2008 01:54 AM
Story is nicely built up except one point. The fates of the grasshoppers and ants are tagged together. Either both learn to live together, otherwise they will be killed by some other animals.
RE:RE:Ant and Grasshopper...........
by Vijay B on Apr 13, 2008 02:27 AM
Haha! So you're saying we'll die without you by our side? Sorry pal, we're dying WITH YOU by our side. So if we die without you by our side, it is better, since atleast we don't have to suffer this indignity and false accusations of past persecution while facing such fascist and nazist persecution by you and your greedy politicians!
RE:Ant and Grasshopper...........
by R Balasubramanian on Apr 12, 2008 10:25 AM
brahmins have faced a lot of hurdles in their life in the past, facing in the present and face in future but will definitely survive with their intelligence and self-respect and not stoop so low to lick someones boots. Todays brahmins economic strength is because of their hard work and parents support ofcourse the unshaken faith on the god.
RE:Ant and Grasshopper...........
by Manjula A on Apr 12, 2008 11:18 AM
It will be very Good for India if all the foreign Aryans, not only the Brahmins can quit India and go back to their foreign lands wherever they came from. India will re-establish the lost glory of the Indus Valley civilisation. Thank you very much Mr. Vijay. Please convey your message to all your Aryan cousins. We INDIANS shall be ever grateful to you.
RE:Ant and Grasshopper...........
by Vijay B on Apr 13, 2008 02:23 AM
Hey ISI paki agent masquarading as an Indian lady - Brahmins ESTABLISHED the Indus Valley civilization. After Brahmins were driven out of there you've seen what that piece of land has become - a waste dump of toxic souls.
And oh, please, no need to thank me. I thank you and all your ilk for giving me the inspiration, motivation and strength of mind and character to renounce my love and attachment to my country and make the world my domain.
And yes I don't really need your gratitude, because the day you will rue this attitude of yours is not far off. You will cry and cry before you die in this very birth of yours, and repent your hatred towards not just Brahmins, but humans as a whole.
RE:RE:Ant and Grasshopper...........
by Kris iyer on Apr 12, 2008 03:18 PM
Dear Manjula, I am confused about this Aryan issue you have introduced into a discussion on reservations. Are you saying that if we can identify and weed out the Aryans (or may be send them into a gas-chamber like Hitler had done to the Jews), then, India would turn into a Heaven for the Non-Aryans (that is what Hitler too promised the Germans in a Germany without the Jews)? Incidentally, please make sure you do not have any Aryan blood. I say that with your interest at heart. You do not want to be thrown out of India with the rest of the Aryans, do you? Therefore, your argument is that there would be no need for reservations of any kind, without the Aryans? I do not know what Mr.Arjun Singh would think of your argument. He "looks" to me like an Aryan. Also Manmohan Singh, also Sonia Gandhi - now she is definitely an Aryan, wouldn't you say so? Please wait, I am now a very worried man. How can India survive without Arjun Singh, Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi? Do you realise what you have done with this wonderful proposal of yours?
RE:Ant and Grasshopper...........
by Kaushik Das on Apr 13, 2008 01:07 AM
The aryan theory is false - mos indians have tribal origins - note our god forms - shiva has a tiger skin, ganges flowing, covered in ashes with a trident in a dark cemetery. KrsNa has a peacock feather. How can it be that 'Arya's were so inclined to have tribal images as god-forms???
Arya means noble - it is not a race. Similarly, jaati is not caste - it simply means natue. Your job should be as per your nature. It is just as simple as that.
RE:Ant and Grasshopper...........
by Kris iyer on Apr 12, 2008 03:07 PM
Dear Readers, Please see the TWO basic points of the Ant-Grasshopper story. Don't superimpose any castes upon the story just yet. The basic Points are: 1) There are NO free lunches in this world. In this Karma Bhoomi, everyone has to work hard. With Luck on his or her side, the person can come up. This is true for every one. In modern India, it is not more difficult or less so because one is from this caste or that. Caste cannot be a disadvantage unless you are living in some remote village. But in such rural areas, every caste suffers from poor facilities. 2) In India today some quarters are seeking to gain undue advantage, through "political manipulation", "social agitation" or the use their vote bank strength. These quarters are after privileges but not responsibilities. Learning is a serious business, that is why we go through 12 years of schooling, discipline at home, personal discipline, a disciplined and true observance of religious teachings and so on. How can you have a "short-cut" to learning ? Would I be allowed to fly a plane if I only secured a borderline pass in a Pilot's Course ? In the story Vijay has posted, the implied question is "Would the grass-hoppers be able to look after themselves next winter?" "Have they learnt to build their nests yet? Or, are they hoping to blame the ants for their problems next winter and then the next winter and so on for 62 years and may be more, for another TEN or TWENTY generations to come?
Wait for 2008 batch to come out .. No one will give them job in coorporates sectore ..because coorporate sectore will look @ skills not cast ....so time has come to see umemployed IITians and IIM students
RE:be ready to see unemployed IIM and IIT graduattes
by Sampath Kumar on Apr 12, 2008 05:30 AM
Dont give Arjun Singh ideas. He will bring in reservations in MNC too.
RE:be ready to see unemployed IIM and IIT graduattes
by sujata k on Apr 12, 2008 12:21 PM
how about when these reserved people passout and star teaching at same place--will the standard or non reserved also go down?
