Even 60 years after independence, with all the protection accorded to the socially disadvantaged groups under the constitution, the list of sections seeking reservation benefits is ever increasing! WE are perpetuating backwardness by giving it incentives. More than equality, we should be focussing on equal opportunities for all. But again that may earn the leadership a place in history but certainly not in the Parliamanet or Assembly. As for Indira Jaising's column, it is nothing but intellectual chicanery. It has always been fashionable and very remunerative to speak like that in this country. Long live social justice!
It is good that the SC has excluded the creamy layers. SC also excluded those who are already graduates of universities and whos parents are employed in officer cadre in the government and MPs MLAs etc. However, it should also exclude people with higher earnings in the private sector and those who are self-employed.
Thus, this reservation is only for the poor backward castes unless the Parliament again include those who are now excluded by the SC.
Thus it is not bad at all. However, the definition of the creamy layers must include people who are above the poverty level but working for the private sector or self-employed. This reservation should be only for the people below the poverty level. The definition of the poverty level should be at least Rs.5000 income per family not Rs. 1800 per family as it is now, which is unrealistic.
However, it would be much better to abolish caste/trade based reservation but have a poverty based reservation. There are lots of Brahmins working as porters in every Rly stations. They also deserve reservations as they are poor.
RE:Look at the detail: it is not that bad but could be better
by Kaushik Das on Apr 13, 2008 01:24 AM
but will those porters be able to compete for IITs/IIMs? I doubt it.
Besides, the point is: as a city guy, I don't work taking caste into factor even for a second in the day. So, why should my seat be taken by someone who was discriminated in his village? More so, what is the guarantee that all lowere castes were discriminated against? All upper castes were never discriminators. So, why should the children of a non-discriminated agaisnt lower caste person get a seat that should have competitively gone to the children of a non-discriminating upper caste perosn?
Why doesn't Indira Jaising open a private school, engg college, medical college & arts & sciences college and fill it up 100% with SC/ST & OBC students and provide them with top quality education at a very low fees? People like her are the worst hypocrites & parasites who prefer living off the talents & resources of others who have achieved their success by sheer hardwork. Such people are agents of Pakistan & China and want to use reservation to sabotage this nation by dividing the people using caste & religion. I am unable to understand why didn't the Mandal messiah V.P. Singh go to a reservation category doctor for his kidney related treatment & instead flew to London at the taxpayers expense for his treatment. People like V.P. Singh, Arjun Singh, Indira Jaising, Prakash Karat, D. Raja, Brinda Karat etc should be forced to get medical treatment at the hands of reservation category doctors when they fall ill. An Constitutional amendment should be made which forces all politicians who voted for the reservation law to go for treatment to reservation category doctors. Only when politicians are forced to suffer the consequences of their decisions will these leeches & parasites be taught a lesson.
RE:Indira Jaising , the Ultimate Hypocrite
by sujata k on Apr 12, 2008 12:27 PM
instead of dropping standards of existing institutes just bring out exclusively reserved institutes..
RE:Indira Jaising , the Ultimate Hypocrite
by Kris iyer on Apr 12, 2008 07:24 AM
Dear AP, You have homed in on a significant feature of our "social activists", "noisy, loud-mouthed people". You will find that they give very little to charity, they have ensured their own bank-balance, their medical treatment and their personal comfort. They enjoy treating all other Indians as "conservative, old-fashined tribals" who are heartless and devoid of culture. They view themselves as "completely liberated human beings of great stature". They come alive in front of cameras, lecturing with glaring eyes, teaching the rest of India, how to behave. Gather facts about their personal lives. Many of us would be shocked.
I think everyone who has gone through Professional courses admission is rudely awakened about the caste reservation. In my case it became a scar for ever. When friends who scored extremely less marks secured seats in Extremely Good Colleges while i was waiting for months, and it came up atlast in college in which i did n't want to pursue studies and which was a private one too, Which means to shell out more money. When i confronted father about the reservation. He said its merely an excuse for me not to perform. If i cannot perform now, then there is no justice for taking a professional course. That you have to be best among the best to deserve and only then you could be a successful professional. That was an idealistic angle to a problem for which he didn't want to give me the straight answer that it is indeed extremely pathetic situation when you are in economically oppressed forward class. Well after some years I realized the conviction he had about that statement. Leave alone that non-deserving candidates can get admission based on whatever reasons. But its to be made sure that none of the remainng 50 percent seats goes to anybody other than Economically weaker, Socially oppressed Forward classes. That is something we can do. We should raise our children constantly stating that we are at a serious disadvantage well before the X th form, whcich i think should be an incentive enough for them to compete.
RE:RESERVATION VIEW FROM DIFFERENT ANGLE
by Kris iyer on Apr 12, 2008 07:33 AM
Dear Raja Rajan, Many thousands of young people reading your note, will understand what you went through. My suggestion to those thousands is this: PLAN TO EMIGRATE. For anyone below the age of 40, Australia and Newzealand offer a good chance of a better life. Somehow get a good degree or diploma in ONE OF THE AREAS THESE COUNTRIES LIST AS THEIR PRIORITY NEED. A good diploma in CATERING or ELECTRICAL WELDING of some specialised kinds, Special alloys-making and so on, will get you into an Australian job within 18 months. Young People must realise that they have to GET ON WITH THEIR LIVES. Take advantage of this globalised world. In Australia or NZ, you get to enjoy Indian culture, our Mandhirs etcetera, all our Holy occasions are celebrated and so on. You get freedom from our silly politicians constantly talking about caste and religion, in the same breath as "a casteless society" and "secularism". Your own children will, in the future, get to study in any discipline they choose to. There is no "reservation" in these countries, ONLY MERIT.
RE:RESERVATION VIEW FROM DIFFERENT ANGLE
by sujata k on Apr 12, 2008 12:31 PM
good advice....if u have tallent go out.. god is everywhere. atleast ur talent will be recognised... infact these countries r looking forward for good people to migrate. leave the 50% to vote for the govt... they will also vote for ony from reserved catagory... let us see 50% ministers from sc st obc etc
RE:RESERVATION VIEW FROM DIFFERENT ANGLE
by bala sreenivasan on Apr 11, 2008 04:46 PM
Your posting makes a very pertinent and sad reading. There are no statesmen in our midst today to think of the next generation; we have always been having petty politicians who think about the next elections. This is what goes as social justice inn this country; God save it!
Please Answer 1)How do you define a backward class? A Jat is OBC(Ruler of Rajasthan) A Gujjar who were ruling rajasthan is a OBC.Will you call son of Mr. Nitish Kumar or Mr. Akhilesh Yadav a OBC? 2)Whats the UC:BC ratio in Govt. Offices as of five years back? You will find the ratio is in favour of SC/ST's & BC's. 3)60 years on we still need reservation as a soceity.Where're we going?Is this social equality & justice? If you governance & people in politea can't handle the reservation tool effectively,is it the fault of 5% upper caste people?If Upper castes responded positively to the Population control measures on the Indian Government right through 1980's(two decades back)& have been reduced to populistic minority whose fault is it? Mr. Hanumanth Rao(OBC MP Congress) was quoting some person from the Fisherman folk of AP as being the topper in IAS list.Doesn't it mean regard for individual merit?Probably Mr.Rao precisely advocated what petition against this law said. Is Govt. on a fast track to end all the evils & ills of the BC's & society by granting reservation?The answer is 'NO', harsh it may sound but its true.We are running against time to readjust/redeem ourselves as a society & this decision will pull us few years back.Irony is Govt is planning a complete leap backwards(Reservation In Pvt. Sector, Reservation in Judiciary etc,& indirectly first right to every damn resource available through a fair income or salary through a decent employment).How many
RE:Few points for Adv.Jaising to ponder
by Kris iyer on Apr 12, 2008 07:44 AM
See, tejas bhayee, you are asking our politicians to be objective. Look at the facts, think logically, ask the right questions. They know exactly what you are talking about. But they DO NOT want to be objective. The reason, to win the next election. They know, that no one has so far sought to review the performance of "reservation raj" in the last 60 years. What we need is some foreigner or foregin magazine like The Economist doing research and publishing a damning article about how this whole reservation circus has been ONLY in aid of winning elections. A great FRAUD has been perpetrated on the people of INDIA. The Novjawan of India must UNITE. They should not divide themselves on caste basis - even if the government is provoking such a division. The Congress Pary is trying its best to be the most divisive party in India's history. But all patriotic Indians must resist its attempt to divide us. Everyone MUST be be looked after in India, without "demoralising" others. By all means help the weaker sections, BUT think carefully about helping them without demoralising everyone else. That intelligent approach is lacking in this government's policies.
People belonging to forward castes have no political muscle. In a political democracy, majority wins not morality. Hitler's Germany used similar ideas to first marginalize and then legally execute the Jew minority. Flee when you have a chance, for that chance might not exist forever. As simple as that.
RE:(Political) might is right - Law of the Jungle, law of the supreme court!
by Gautam Sinha on Apr 11, 2008 02:23 PM
yes the generation before this in forward castes and educated people were stupid enough to practise family planning hoping for a bright future for their sons but now their grandchildren will suffer. This is becuase your growth will be just as much as the weakest link. What they should have realized is that educated people will provide more educated children and hence better future citizens. Another myth is people of forward caste were at advantage. That is a complete lie, people were forward castes were economically backward too but that is what sociologists will ignore else they will lose their thesis and PhD. This SC decision however is better and shoul have come long ago.
If the politicians had shown the same commitment in enforcing a law to make primary and higer secondery education a must they would have achieved more. Because at this level you have to have the best only irrespective of the caste he / she comes from. But knowing the congress and communist too well and their approach towards education from free India has been lop sided. They have divided India more than any other political group giving them head ache's such as the BSP / RJD / SP / DMK etc. These parties only believe in telling the people who are responcible for their woes rather than blaming thier myopic policies and keeping them in pepertual poverty.
RE:Govt to make primary / hi sec a must
by bala sreenivasan on Apr 11, 2008 05:08 PM
Even the party you have failed to mention in your posting - BJP- is no different when it comes to this issue. Supporting reservations become fashionable and a sign of progressive mindset. we have no statemen only opportunistic politicians in our midst
would iit have to lower its standards for the "lucky" sc students to shuffle them thr' the system and help them graduate? usa is already having a monumental education crisis because of what bush calls the "bigotry of low expectations". the right time to help the sc is during elementary schools and high schools to help them earn right merits for iit. invading iit unmeritoriously will help neither student not iit.
The question is not that seats for general class has not been decreased in face of reservation, the question is that why should the resources of the Indian state be focussed on a certain section of the society and not uniformly ?
While I am still trying to figure out what does 'being oppressed since centuries' mean, all I remember is my father even on being an upper caste never had enough resources to feed us. He could not get a proper job. We had to work hard to get education and food.
Was this not oppression ?
Why should the state not provide resources to upper castes who are oppressed ? Why should they be differentiated ? Should they not be identified as individuals needing state help , instead of being identified as an upper caste needing no help ?
Why should the state discriminate on a factor thats decided by birth ? Why should an individual be differntiated in the eyes of law right from the time of birth ?
RE:why is common sense un-common ?
by srinivasan mv on Apr 11, 2008 02:07 PM
Good point, they keep saying oppressed for centuries. About a Century ago, do you know who were your ancestors? My dad had poor income to feed us for once a day. I had the false prestige and lived most of my young years only on curd rice. The government says, I am a forward caste and deserve persecution.
Who are these OBCs? They had ruled the country in the name of Kshatriyas, Vanniyas and other business community. In fact, the present OBCs are much more richer than majority of the forward community people who are working in private companies. The law is retrograde when it discriminates only on the basis of someone's caste.
RE:why is common sense un-common ?
by Gautam Sinha on Apr 11, 2008 02:35 PM
That is why the SC excluded the creamy layer. And thats exactly why the powerful among the OBC are crying hoarse.
RE:why is common sense un-common ?
by bala sreenivasan on Apr 11, 2008 05:19 PM
brilliant, Ashish! Nobody can answer the points you have raised. WE can only blame the Congress and its myopic policy
