mr lavakare hits the nail right on dot. the media has become a tool so frenzy that they will kill them selves over to shower support to the minority in spite of the fact if there was no case. what we need to understand is if we are going to set rules for a billion people keeping the 150 million in mind there are going to be issues and huge ones that the politicians cann never handle. so the so called secularists and the politicians need to keep off the quick sand or they will take the whole country down. why cant they put two and two togeather and see that they are the ones that are tearing the social fabric of the country with this kind of appeasement.
RE:right
by ad on Sep 15, 2003 04:36 PM
Mr GB, get urself right baby if u think that trian caught fire because of some inflammable material from inside, as you know we belong to most intelligent species in world and if train caught fire from inside ppl would have jumped out of the train and not waited for gods last MASAIH to come an save... lol. For ur kind information the train was stoped by pulling chain and some barbarians came and did there job. And you knowing the fact are giving false reason. And as far as courts verdict is concerned u should thanks to NHRC and MR GB one last think if u think that u r living in suppressed environment , i guess whole world knows that the fruits and liberty the minorities enjoy in INdia is no wher else in world Sadma Husain has quoted it once. But dont kow what ru requrements r? Good blesss u dear.
a) There has been a grave crime against humanity in Gujarat. Period.
b) The culprits in this particular case haven't been found at all. (Not necessarily the accused; the people who have committed this heinous crime)
c) While it's not the first time this has been raised, there are serious questions of police bungling in the entire process. Evidence was misappropriated, and, as things stand, there are serious questions of political interference in the executive's job.
d) There is something called 'judicial review'; a higher court can, by a process of law, overturn a lower court's verdict. This definitely can't be double jeopardy that you seem to be hinting at.
Given the above, I'm really at a loss as to why you should attack Ms Zahira, or all those press reports supporting her.
One reason, perhaps, is our relative notions of nationhood; you seem to believe that India's defined on religious and cultural lines. I disagree; the Preamble to our Constitution clearly states that Justice is one of the four values on which this country was setup.
But then, I'm only a dim-witted idealist; I believe in the Constitution for God's sake. Have you heard anything more funny? HA HA HA.
Your article is very unfashionable. You should see the wind-direction of media. Do what everyone else is doing. What is the need of exposing the mood of NHRC and media in general.
It is natural for Indian public to get emotional over mistreatment of minorities as it is a matter of life and death. These sentiments should be exploited in your article. Why do you bring constitutional hitch in dealing with this issue? What is the need of common-sense here? The trial and re-trial must be repeated till the decision is in favor of NHRC. We can go out of way in this case. To peep into its consequence on judicial system is none of the business of NHRC or Justice A. S. Anand.
RE:Dear Arvind
by Makarand Sane on Sep 16, 2003 04:14 PM
Dear Kaushik,Do you want to know what RSS does? The talibani atleast spare the women and kids.The RSS creates such safronic Hindu terrorist that they rape and kill the women(The 'Bravery' of one of the Bajarang Dal activist during the gujarat riots).The RSS does the work of uniting all the Hindu be they belong to whatever caste.But use them for spitting venom against the minorities in their slow poisioning programme of spreading hatred towards minorities.One of the Bajarna Dal(terroris faction of RSS) activist in Ahemadabad is kidnapping the Hindu female who get marry to a Muslim or a Christian.From where does this come,tell me?.They boycott the Muslims and dalit in the villages of Gujarat from getting the employment ,running the business,access to water & temple.For the namesake they serve the tribals under the mask of 'Vanvasi' Ashram.But don't call them 'Adivasi' in order to not to recognize them as the original inhabitant of india.They start a movement for building a ram temple but why not reform the hindu society so that the Shankaracharya should be a 'Dalit'? why he has to be 'Brahmin'
Reply to Varun Shekhar
by Varun Shekhar on Sep 22, 2003 10:13 PM
Hmmmm, RSS=Taliban. I still have a *big* problem with the equation. Remember that the Taliban whipped women for working outside the home or even being seen with non-family members. Are you sure K.R Malkani and the late Mr. Sudarshan would advaocate that. Would the Taliban accept any non-Moslem at all, the way the RSS has accepted Kalam and Fernandes? Let me clarify that I`m not espousing the RSS ideology or behaviour, just rejecting this comparison.
RE:Reply to Kaushik Das
by Bill J Kidd on Sep 15, 2003 11:03 PM
Mr. Das, if the RSS folks I have seen so far are to be taken as the sample then here is what they do.
1. Preach hatred against Muslims in India. 2. Kill and maim CPI(M) activists and Muslims. 3. Destroy property belonging to Muslims/CPI(M) activists. 4. Organize funds to buy out Muslims from where they live. Usually before the buy out they are threatended with dire consequences if they don't leave.
RE:Dear Arvind
by sameer on Sep 13, 2003 03:53 AM
Not really. It is a lot easier to go with the flow and listen to the hatred preached by the RSS/VHPs and Talibans of the world. It is still amazing that people do look at things from humanitarian angle and fight for justice. All of us need to stand together to bring those guilty to justice irrespective of if the guilty or victim is part of minority or majority. It is sad that your conscience did not hurt to see Arvind justifying those guilty go scot-free.
RE:Dear Arvind
by Varun Shekhar on Sep 27, 2003 02:08 AM
The RSS should be judged by what it says and what it does, not because it spells its name R-S-S. Essentially, the RSS is a cultural nationalist organization which wants all Indians, of whatever background, to accept, respect and cherish the Indian/Hindu/Sanskrtic heritage of India more than any other heritage. Is that the purest,noblest kind of secularism on Earth? No! But it is far from diabolical or Nazi or Talibani.
RE:Reply to Varun Shekhar
by Bill J Kidd on Sep 24, 2003 10:15 PM
Read my lines Mr. Shekhar. You haven't addressed the points I raised. Instead you are trying to solve the equation RSS=Taliban. You have problem because you don't want to see RSS as it is. You want to turn a blind eye towards the actual role RSS is playing right now, which is of a force causing division and distrust in India. In someways RSS is more dangerous than Taliban, coz RSS like you said, openly accepts Kalam and Fernandez but underneath spread hatred against muslims and people from other communities. Some even say that Kalam was accepted because he caters to the interests of BJP and that he is just a muslim name. I see more truth in the former, but don't know about the later.
RE:Reply to Varun Shekhar
by Bill J Kidd on Sep 20, 2003 10:51 PM
I don't know about RSS vision of democracy.. may be among their party lines. RSS does NOT believe in secularism or pluralism. If they have, then they wouldn't brand muslims in India as outsiders or preach hatred against them. I have personally witnessed RSS leaders asking its cadres in their Shakhas to spread words among their community that muslims are pakistanis and that they are the enemies of India and hence they should be alienated at all costs. I haven't seen at any point of time RSS saying anything about equal rights for women in the society but I have observed that many of those RSS cadres never personaly agree to the fact that women should be given equal rights as men. They don't want them to be seen playing a role outside that of a home maker. The only point I can agree with you is that you made about Artistic freedom. Yes, RSS is not as bad as the Taliban. Otherwise, Taliban and RSS matches on almost all fronts. You arm the RSS (god forbid) with AKs and RPGs, and make them wear the same type of clothing, I bet you can't tell between them.
RSS does not equal Taliban!
by Varun Shekhar on Sep 18, 2003 01:12 AM
It's very silly to compare the RSS with the Taliban or the Lashkar or any of those horrible Islamic Jihadi thugs. Here are the points of difference:
The RSS believes in democracy i.e one person one vote with universal adult franchise. The RSS believes in secularism, though with a strong emphasis on the Hindu/Sanskritic character of India. The RSS does *not* prevent women from working outside the home or otherwise possessing equal rights. The RSS accepts linguistic pluralism.The RSS believes in modernity.The RSS accepts both external as well as internal criticism of its ideas/policies. The RSS does *not* seek to ban other political organizations or religious expressions. On one point, namely artistic freedom, the RSS is somewhat conservative, but not at the level of the Taliban. Anyway, India has had pretty strict censorship laws for most of its independent existence.
RE:Dear Arvind
by sameer on Sep 16, 2003 02:18 AM
It is not based on hearsay. Look at the similarities. They both preach hatred about those who do not believe in their ideology. They both use religion as an excuse to commit gross crimes against humanity. They both brainwash young minds with hatred. One distribute guns, one distribute trishuls. Both argue for a theological state and demonstrate zero tolerance for others.
RE:Dear Arvind
by Kaushik Das on Sep 15, 2003 09:50 AM
This is the problem. You, on hearsay, are comparing RSS with taliban. Do you know what the RSS does?
So the gravest offense committed in relation with the Best bakery is that Zaheera Sheikh lied under oath!Those who forced her to lie,threatening her life,find no mention in the whole article!Those who committed the gruesome murder of her relatives find no mention in the article.Lavakare,you seem to have some experience with law and courts.That should be sufficient to teach you that the court can not always stand in the side of truth.It needs hardcore evidence.And in a country like ours where murder is commonplace,a poor helpless woman like Zaheera Sheikh is bound to retract her statement and lie under oath,all for the fear of her life.There are innumerous cases like this,which ended up as just a record for law journalists to misquote.In this case,Zaheera went out of Gujarat to a place where she considers safer and publicly admitted that she lied to the court in fear of her life.Instead of congratulating her for coming out in open ignoring the possible consequences,why you choose to criticise her?All people of this coutry including the judge and YOU know that the Best case verdict from the court was far from truth,but there was no choice for the court becoz of the lack of evidence.
RE:why you insist on being blind?
by SI on Sep 16, 2003 11:18 AM
if someone wrote an article defending the killers of the Godhra train massacre,I would have said the same thing.The gist of my message is,if there is a crime,punish the guilty.
Gujarat govt. has done admirable work in nabbing those behind the train massacre.Noone has raised any criticism regarding that.Why can't the govt. pursue the Best bakery case with the same zeal?
RE:why you insist on being blind?
by Kaushik Das on Sep 15, 2003 09:52 AM
And what abotuthe pilgrims who died, among them women and children; what about justice to them? Their death sems less miportant in your comment than the plight of a woman, who may well be lying now.
Did you bother to look up the penal code for threatening the witness. In case you had been sleeping till now, Gujarat has been a chaos. Police not only failed to protect muslims during riot but also took part in it. Muslims who had tried to defend themselves from the mob were jailed. Defense lawyers have been appointed public prosecutors. And the judge, you hold so high in regard, did nothing to provide justice. You may also want to read on the duties of judge as to what he should have done when witnesses were turning hostile. His verdict - that preaches minority community instead of dealing with the case in hand - is ample proof that any expectation of justice in Gujarat is only wishful thinking.
Even if one has to accept that those accused were in fact innocent, then where are the guilty? While scores of muslims have been arrested for Godhra, Ashakdharm & Haren's murder, hindu rioters have vanished as though they never existed.
If justifying Gujarat was not enough, now you criticize those who demand justice. How would you feel if muslims start justifying the terrorists and then also criticize those who demand justice.
None of your facts are convincing and i didnt get even a gist of what you are trying to argue about.What happened at the time in gujarat was horrible.Lets try to move on shall we??
RE:best bakery
by hanif on Sep 12, 2003 01:23 PM
Getting and killed or burned by the murderers is not the issue Arvind want to reflect here. That Zahira, who lost 15 members of her family had lied, and why the Indian courts are trying to prove the facts and get these murders convicted !! Well Arvind, you are as good and on par with these kind of people, the only difference is you direct them with your so called intelligence. Wonder if he is also looking at cases where the trend is in reverse order. One hell of a writer !! Hanif
The putrefying tripe written here is merely evidence of Mr. Lavakare's saffron-nazi agenda, and his snide referrence to the social status of Dalits and untouchables at the end as toilet-cleaners just further adds to it. I propose starting a campaign to boot him off this website and put him on a place like HinduUnity or HinduNet where he belongs.
RE:this column
by Kaushik Das on Sep 15, 2003 09:59 AM
Why, are toilet-cleaners bad? It is their classification that is bad. But hey, that is why they are dalits (downtrodden) because they do not have a choice of work.
