u never cheat farmer n take their lands like Amitabh chor..u never cheat writer(TZP=Amol gupte), father , brother for money n cheat 1st wife like amir chor..never do scandal buttons of akshay..never harm 7 people on road like salman...SO ABOVE EVERYTHING SRK IS THE BEST..A GRT HUMAN.. A IKON OF INDIA RELATES IT TO THE REST OF WORLD..A GRT FAMILY PERSON..A VERSATILE ACTOR.. THE BEST OF THE BEST "" SHAH RUKH KHAN""
-- I would like to slightly modify that observation. "He is a neo-tech kid in instinct." You know what I mean?
Often, the lastest convert to any line of thought is the most fanatic -- like the neo-converts or neo-conservatives to any religion.
Rahman, ever since his arrival, was branded as a tech kid and ever since he has happily played to that particular gallery, suppressing his broader talent -- glimpses of which we found in movies like Sangamam and Gentleman.
Its almost like what happened many others like Naushad, who was branded as a Hindustani composer, or Manna Dey, who was typecast as the second lead singer.
Re: @ Harish Menon
by Opinionated Man on Apr 30, 2010 01:59 PM
Dude, either you don't understand music or just for the sake of arguing are saying that VB is average.
In OMKARA all the songs are fabulous. Namak and Jag ja being my personal favourites.
The lyrics of both these songs make them even more special.
The kind of experimetation Vb does with his music is as commendable as the kind of experimentation he does with his films....
Re: Re: @ Harish Menon
by Harish Menon on Apr 30, 2010 03:45 PM
No point sir. He is someone who thinks every song of Omkara, except Beedi Jalaile, was boring. :D :D
Reminds me of the shortest sardar joke: "Once there was a smart Sardar!"
Re: @ Harish Menon
by Andy on Apr 29, 2010 09:35 AM
Even the music for one song in Vishal Bharadwaj's 'BLUE UMBRELLA' is very similar to Chinna Chinna Aasai or Choti Si Asha from Roja. VB (Vishal Bhardwaj) can never be called greatest composer. He definitely doesn't even come near to A.R.Rahman in terms of composition.
This s one of the best reviews I have read in recent times. Had got sick of reading the crappy reviews on India FM by Joginder Tuteja! The same lines & description in every review. This one is refreshing & Sukanya's command over the language is laudable. She manages to find the correct word to describe the mood / moment / feel / emotion of the song & that in itself is a skill. Great going!
1. C Ramchander/Anil Biswas 2. Roshan/Baburaj 3. S D Burman/Raveendran 4. Shankar-Jaikishen/M S Vishwanathan 5. Devarajan/Naushad 6. Salil Chaudhary/Ilayaraja 7. R D Burman/Ousepacchan 8. Laxmikant-Pyarelal/Ravi 9. K V Mahadevan/V Dakshinamoorthy 10. Ousepachan/Johnson
Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cinema
by manas madhup on Apr 29, 2010 06:59 PM
Menon who r u buddy?why do you have such an attitude?You measure talented people's work and you become judgemental.What have you achieved in your life to pass a comment like that.Tell me what are your best traits (rankings not indicated)
Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cinema
by Ajith Kumar on Apr 30, 2010 06:24 AM
Manas, Harish doesn't have attitude just because he doesn't consider Rahman a great musician & that's v. true. He want's to say that there are other better MDs out there & that Rahman is not that great in the great scheme of things! He doesn't want to be sucked in by the hype. That's a great attitude & not a bad one!
Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cinema
by Indmovbuff on Apr 28, 2010 06:36 PM
Was trying to see where this hatred comes from. I think I understand now. No need to blindly* reject his music just because none of your favourite music directors were able to take Indian music to the level that Rahman has despite however superior they were to him (which they could have been). That's not the point. Tha's the circle of life my friend because in another 50 years time, there'll be someone else in the forefront and if he goes on to win a 100 Oscars, I am not going to reject his music purely because Rahman wasn't given the same honour or opportunity and some new kid on the block was. We are all here for good music irrespective of who it comes from.
*(yes, blindly because all your posts however long or however well written they are only reminds me of what Sarah Palin would do if she were to contribute to this review)
Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cinema
by Harish Menon on Apr 29, 2010 09:28 AM
Well... if you construe preference for another composer as hatred for Rahman, then its purely your problem.
Re: Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cin
by Indmovbuff on Apr 29, 2010 02:42 PM
Well, I think if you read through all your comments, the majority of them is about how rubbish Rahman's music is (in honey coated words). Now don't tell me it's just an issue of preference when you've been on this Raavan music review thread for several days just to ...? Er, remind me again?
Re: Re: Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian
by Harish Menon on Apr 30, 2010 11:02 AM
And I do think most of them are nowhere up to the hype they receive and many of them are utter crap. Some of them are decent and some out of this world and incredible.
That is the case with almost any music director with the ratio of each category varying from MD to MD. So what's the big deal?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in In
by Indmovbuff on Apr 30, 2010 02:47 PM
No big deal my friend but it seems like it is for you for being on this thread for so many days trying to ? I am off. good bye and good luck.
Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cinema
by Indmovbuff on Apr 28, 2010 06:42 PM
P.S: when I said "level" I implied in the eyes of the world and not just India.
Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cinema
by Harish Menon on Apr 29, 2010 09:42 AM
"able to take Indian music to the level that Rahman has..."
--If the reference is to the Oscars, then one can only sigh at the naivette. while I attach marginally more value to the Oscars than Filmfare awards, "Slumdog..." was, in my opinion, one of the worst Rahman compositions.
Anyway, if chronology was the criteria, then there was no need to traverse as wide a generational sweep as that I have in my lists.
However, no point if people have understood the difference between "preference" and "hatred".
Re: Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cin
by Indmovbuff on Apr 29, 2010 02:49 PM
Slumdog being Rahman's worst is irrelevant because Rahman's best has been for Indian movies (so far) and he was never going to get an Oscar for the Indian scores because the Academy does not have a "Best Score in a Foreign Language" category. So no point crying over that because even if Lagaan or some of his other movies won the best foreign film Oscar, he could have never won an Oscar for the music because of the above fact. He was given an opportunity and he won. Bad score in your eyes. Good score in mine and the majority music lovers outside of India. We live in a subjective world.
And, I may be going blind because I don't see anyone from the 21st century on there. Did you say something about generational sweep?!
Re: Re: Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian
by Harish Menon on Apr 30, 2010 10:58 AM
Well... nobody can help you if you think Oscars are a criterion to judge a movie composer.
And if you don't know see generational difference between an Anil Biswas and an R D Burman, or the one between Guru Dutt and Dibakar, then it makes no sense to continue with this discussion. So lets call it a day. :)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in In
by Harish Menon on Apr 30, 2010 03:42 PM
"My point to you was : I can't see any composer from the 21st century on your list."
Your answer to me was? Burman and Biswas's last compositions were in?"
--The reason was simple. I don't find any new age composer as good as their predecessors -- including, mind you, Vishal Bharadwaj. My first point was about generational sweep... and you probably have no clue who Anil Biswas was. Not a crime.
As for the Oscars... an award that failed to recognise someone like Alfred Hitchcock holds no value at all. Period.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in In
by Indmovbuff on Apr 30, 2010 02:43 PM
Yes, I have no plans of returning to this thread because of your OTT Sarah Palinism minus the entertainment.
My point to you was : I can't see any composer from the 21st century on your list.
Your answer to me was? Burman and Biswas's last compositions were in?
And, I don't need help. Thanks for the concern though. The Oscar for best original score is to recognise a composer's ability to provide a good quality soundtrack for a movie (ie skills of a movie composer). My friend, if you think that an Oscar is not a criterion to measure the talent of a music composer (and by saying so collectively thrashing the abilities of the many Newmans and Williams who have won this prestigious award) , then I was correct in thinking where all this hatred stems from. Anyway, only saying : enjoy and appreciate good music. Even if your favourite composer doesn’t get the recognition you think they deserve and someone else does, it doesn’t mean you have trash the 'someone''s music. Because if you appreciate good music, it shouldn’t matter who made it. Good luck!
Re: Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cin
by Ajith Kumar on Apr 30, 2010 06:26 AM
V. well said & v. true. SD was a crap movie & the songs didn't deserve to get Oscars. But it did (which is a different story) and that doesn't mean they are the best songs in the world in 2008! If anyone thinks that then they are truly living in a fantasy world.
Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cinema
by indian on May 03, 2010 01:37 PM
@Harish, have you ever ever ever heard of the name Ilayaraaja ?
Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cinema
by nnms on May 03, 2010 03:04 PM
puttanna, balchander, bharatiraj, rajkapoor, hrishikesh.. are legend directors no doubt, but they can never be placed among top ten. satyajit ray, girish karnad, girish kasaravalli, adoor, benegal..are true legends though least popular among masses.
Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cinema
by Subienay Ganesh on Apr 28, 2010 06:04 PM
Menon, you dont give up, do you ? I have been noticing this from the time this review came up. You have to make a point and not include mani/rahman in your list !! Ha ha ha. To be fair, all the directors/composers listed above are indeed great but you should also consider that box office/music sales is an important factor as cinema is a commercial medium. For example, if he wants to, I am sure Mani can attempt a arty and intense movie but can a adoor/sreenivasan/hrishikesh etc attempt to do a mani ? I have serious doubts. Its like comparing Cameron to Woody Allen. Both are good and they have their own strengths but comparing them is foolish and is just a matter of opinion.
Now, come on, what is it that you have against mani/rahman ? I mean this is getting to be really funny. Success is all about not just talent, but also using that talent smartly, and in tune with the times. And when I mean box office, I am sure you realise Mani or rahman are not exactly Manmohan Desai or similar and dont just play to the gallery. They take risks but still try to ensure their products are commercially viable. Whenever they crossed the line ( and probably made a wonderful product which you would approve of, like Iruvar, Kannathil etc) they failed miserably.
Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cinema
by Chandran KR on Apr 28, 2010 06:57 PM
Maniratnam is one of my fav directors. But I feel if you have heard one song of A R Rahman, you've heard them all. Jai Howl.
Re: Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cinema
by Harish Menon on Apr 29, 2010 09:33 AM
Would like to know which of the composer I have mentioned was a box office failure.
I have not included Manmohan Desai in my list for your information. Never will.
And show me one combination of directors where at least one of them did not experience consistent box office success.
Have you watched a Hrishikesh or Sreenivasan movie? On what basis do you claim they were artsy?
And finally, like I told Inmovbuf, if you construe preference for another composer/director as hatred for Rahman/Mani, then its purely your problem.
Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cinema
by Ajith Kumar on Apr 30, 2010 06:22 AM
Good on you Harish! I really appreciate you for what you are doing. You have your view point (everyone is entitled to theirs) & you are sticking to it and not ready to be bullied around. You are not the one to be taken in by the hype like many others and say that a bad product is great just because the it is the work of someone who is a brand name (albeit manufactured) Well done. Kudos to you & your guts. I really appreciate it. We need more people like you who don't get sucked into the media hype. More power to you.
I loved your compilation of your fav Music composers & directors. Great list. Am sure many will not be aware of more than half of them on that list.
Re: My Favourite 20 Composers and Directors in Indian cinema
by Adithya Menon on Apr 29, 2010 09:42 PM
I feel bad 4 u man....... if u dnt like ar Rahman the living legend ... den sorry to say u dont kno what music is,.......
If u both are not disliking then we can't force u to like. But u can't abuse the legend. Comparing A.R.Rahman with Vishal Bhardwaj is like comparing diamond with gold. And u know which is superior. A.R.Rahman was the best composer is and will retain as the best composer of the music industry. Vishal Bharadwaj's music recent releases like Kaminey, Omkara, Ishqiya, U Me Aur Hum musics will hum within you for quite sometime but after a month or so u will he bored. For ex:Dhan-Te-Na and Ibn-E-Batuta were good initially now after few months it is boring me whereas music from ARR's recent released Vinnai Thandi Vaaruvaya which was released in the month of Jan(the same month when Ishqiya was released) is liked by one and all in South India even now and the craze is huge here.
VB, Of course he is a very good composer and is also talent film maker but his music skills slightly fall short of A.R.Rahman. A.R.Rahman is very skillful in terms of composing music. VB is very good in direction and writing screenplays.
Re: Vishal Bharadwaj is good but not better than A.R.Rahman
by Harish Menon on Apr 28, 2010 11:50 AM
I completely disagree... VB is a far superior music composer than A R Rahman -- simply because he far more authentic, less dependent on electronic sounds and more intense.
Re: Re: Vishal Bharadwaj is good but not better than A.R.Rahman
by Harish Menon on Apr 28, 2010 11:51 AM
VB is today what Rahman was when he composed "En Veettu Thottathil"!
Re: Re: Re: Vishal Bharadwaj is good but not better than A.R.Rahm
by raj on Apr 28, 2010 12:12 PM
harsih gone nuts he dumbass u comparin vb wid arr joke of d century arr is here from 1990 where vb hehehhehe buddy go and have coconut ol bath den den coconut pulisherry elisherrry hehehheh dumbest person n earh u might b illayarajs fan gotcha
Re: Re: Re: Re: Vishal Bharadwaj is good but not better than A.R.
by Harish Menon on Apr 28, 2010 01:06 PM
Bappi Lahiri has been in this scene since early 1970s. So Lahiri is a better music director than A R Rahman? Ding Dong!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Vishal Bharadwaj is good but not better than
by Akash Sukumaran on Apr 29, 2010 09:48 PM
sorry.. man u r just a crazy fellow who dnt know waht music is.... plzz get out of here... and comparing ARR wid oderz.... ???? he is d LIVING lEGEND>....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Vishal Bharadwaj is good but not better than
by arnab bhattacharya on Apr 28, 2010 03:47 PM
Good answer Harish(the bappi lahiri thing).. anyway just this mornign i was discussing Raavan's music wth a frnd and he told me the same thing that ARR is more on instruments while VB is pure music.. but anyway to me both rocks..i also like SEL and recently Amit Trivedi (of Dev D fame)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Vishal Bharadwaj is good but not better t
by Andy on Apr 29, 2010 09:30 AM
SEL is out of form these days. Earlier he was good now he has become average composer
This is not for the first time that Rahman has being criticised by people. There were many incidents in the past. I can give various examples like Zubeida, Tehzeeb, Swades, Jodhaa Akbar, Taal etc which were the albums where people criticized it heavily but soon after the film got released and when it became hit numbers then other people who criticsed the songs earlier also started liking it. Now Why 'Slumdog Millionaire' clicked but 'Yuvvraj' didn't? that is because SDM was a hit and also received Oscars for best music and also western people danced to Rahman's hit number 'Jai Ho' in that way people in India also started liking those songs but in case of 'Yuvvraj' didn't click because the film bombed at the box office and many good songs from that film went unnoticed.
I am sure half of the people(NON-A.R.RAHMAN FANS) who are READING MY MESSAGE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW THAT THERE WAS AN ALBUM FROM A.R.RAHMAN KNOW AS 'ADA- A WAY OF LIFE' which was released a week after 'JAANE TU....'. THE FACT IS 'JAANE TU...' CLICKED BUT 'ADA- A WAY OF LIFE' DIDN'T. That's because the former were catchy and was promoted well but the later was not promoted well but WAS BETTER THAN 'JAANE TU...'
Now all that I can say is that it depends on you that how you take it. These things are natural from others (non-Rahman fans) where they all criticize in the beginning and praise them later.
Re: To all impatient people out there
by pkr ramesh on Apr 28, 2010 01:50 PM
ARR is a luck laced composer.He is a tech kid.He converted tradational sufi music into sufi pop and electronically synthesised it,and it gave a new sound.With recent advances in sound engineering you can create lot new variations.Half of ARR songs cannot be sung on stage having even half the effect of the sound track,Regarding SDM getting Oscar it is a big joke.Less we talk better about it.Mani Ilayaraja combi was many many times bigger hits in all southern languages.and most of Mani ARR combi movies are flops
Re: Re: To all impatient people out there
by mukund Parthasarathy on Apr 28, 2010 04:50 PM
please do not comment if you have patrial knowledge about ARR or music composed by him, you need to check the movies like duet, sangamam which is pure classic composition
Re: Re: Re: To all impatient people out there
by pkr ramesh on Apr 28, 2010 07:10 PM
Mukund,I accept my knowledge is not partial it is zero.Iwas commenting on his hindi work Regarding his tamil duet and sangamam to put it mildly is slower electronic version of MSV songs.Have u heard old Sivaji MSV Kannadasan Kal elam manika kal auguma please tell me in which film ARR has lifted Subudu has reviewed ARR He comes poorly Much after MSV KVM,and Raja You please disagree let us discuss Let us not make ARR god sent,nobody before,or after him In tamil Mani RAJA songs were bigger hits than all ARR songs combined As i said he is luck laced music technologist
Re: Re: Re: To all impatient people out there
by Ajith Kumar on Apr 30, 2010 06:39 AM
Why is it that everytime someone says anything that is not praising Rahman, so many people jump on to that person & start criticizing him?? That's a v. childish attitude. It's always great to have different view points. If no one is allowed to say anything other than praises for Rahman then it's a v. bad trend! It's pure dictatorship by an army of his crazed up fans!! Every thing has more than one side to it but all of you are hell bent on believing that there is only one superior side to Rahman's music!!
It's a pity that no one want's to listen and encourage a good dialogue/debate on such things. But the good thing is that those who are not praising Rahman seem to be in the right spirit & not abusing other people while those praising Rahman are hell bent on tainting & taunting them! Fancy that!!
Re: Re: To all impatient people out there
by Jeetu Gursingh on Apr 28, 2010 03:50 PM
you are mad! out of your mind! u probably have some major suffering in ur life not being able to recognize a genius in front of you! I wish you best of luck & request to make the most of your life!
This is not for the first time that Rahman has being criticised by people. There were many incidents in the past. I can give various examples like Zubeida, Tehzeeb, Swades, Jodhaa Akbar, Taal etc which were the albums where people criticized it heavily but soon after the film got released and when it became hit numbers then other people who criticsed the songs earlier also started liking it. Now Why 'Slumdog Millionaire' clicked but 'Yuvvraj' didn't? that is because SDM was a hit and also received Oscars for best music and also western people danced to Rahman's hit number 'Jai Ho' in that way people in India also started liking those songs but in case of 'Yuvvraj' didn't click because the film bombed at the box office and many good songs from that film went unnoticed.
I am sure half of the people(NON-A.R.RAHMAN FANS) who are READING MY MESSAGE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW THAT THERE WAS AN ALBUM FROM A.R.RAHMAN KNOW AS 'ADA- A WAY OF LIFE' which was release a week after 'JAANE TU....'. THE FACT IS 'JAANE TU...' CLICKED BUT 'ADA- A WAY OF LIFE' DIDN'T. That's because the former were catchy and was promoted well but the later was not promoted well but WAS BETTER THAN 'JAANE TU...'
Now all that I can say is that it depends on you that how you take it. These things are natural from others (non-Rahman fans) where they all criticize in the beginning and praise them later.
Well, firstly it is not my problem if you don’t have the basic intelligence to understand the purport of my comments. Secondly, I am giving you the benefit of doubt by assuming that the rest of your post was made with some basic intelligence and so I will take the pain to answer the questions in them. The best director composer duo in the post 1980s era are many, including Maniratnam-Rahman, Maniratnam-Ilayaraja, Vishal Bharadwaj-Vishal Bharadwaj, Sibi Malayil-Raveendran etc. As for Mouna Ragam and Iruvar not making money, that most certainly is not the sole benchmark of a great movie. If it was, then almost all David Dhawan flicks are classics. Raghavendra Rajkumar’s atrocious “Nanjundi Kalyana” is a world heritage art piece – it ran for more than 800 days in Bangalore. And Aditya Chopra should get a lifetime achievement award for just DDLJ! So yeah, time to wake up and smell the coffee. “Responsible film-makers” can be of two types – the David Dhawan type, who think about making money at all cost or Vishal Bharadwaj types, who make money by churning out classics. Maniratnam tries to bridge the gap and falls flat and ends up just a technically and aesthetically superior commercial filmmaker and not the classic-maker he pretends to be. That’s the whole point.
Re: @Subeiney Ganesh
by Harish Menon on Apr 28, 2010 11:10 AM
As for Vishal Bharadwaj not being as prolific – that only time will tell. But if Maniratnam’s sole claim to fame is his professional longevity, then I’d rather prefer Priyadarshan – who has churned out crappy copies with stunning visuals, melodious chartbusters and some absolutely brilliant performance by his actorsm for nearly 25 years now – and all that without any pretentions of being a classic filmmaker! I prefer the move maker who makes one movie with all honesty and intensity and then burns away than one who grinds away to glory throughout his life without adding any value. Subhash Ghai are Mani Ratnam are two best examples of such specimen. The very fact that he chooses folks like Abhishek Bacchan and Aishwarya Rai proves the point: He is more often than not overtly dependent on the star value of his actors than genuine acting talent or the strength of his scripts. The music part merely camouflages his shortfalls.
Re: Re: @Subeiney Ganesh
by Subienay Ganesh on Apr 28, 2010 06:25 PM
And who, pray, told you that Mani has pretensions of being a classic film maker ??? This is the most atrocious statement I have heard. The people and the media think so and certainly not mani. I think he has his feet firmly on the ground and knows his limitations too well. Have you ever heard Mani on a egomaniacal trip ?? And on mani depending on star value, I think you got it wrong again as he has often worked with Arvind Swamy who was hardly a star and he started using stars only after he moved into bollywood. I recently watched a TV program where Mani has gone to a function to felicitate Bala on the latter winning the national award for Naan kadavul, and said he had come to the function as he was his fan. He also said that Bala was futhering the quality of tamil cinema after Balachander/Bharatiraaja/balu Mahendra/Mahendran etc. And yes, Mani is just a aesthetically and technically superior commercial filmaker and nothing else. have you seen so many posts on rediff for a music review before ? Think about it.
Re: Re: Re: @Subeiney Ganesh
by Harish Menon on Apr 29, 2010 09:46 AM
Well... if you think pretentions come out only through one's speech, then there's no point taking this discussion ahead.
And he knows his limitations... hah hah ...Good luck. :D
Re: Re: Re: @Subeiney Ganesh
by ragavendra prasad on Apr 29, 2010 05:27 AM
forget it guys only if some one is very popular comments like this pops out...no point in arguing...u can never change a person one who says mani is pretending to be a better director...
Re: @Subeiney Ganesh
by karthik k on Apr 29, 2010 07:49 PM
there are some people like Mr. Harish Menon, who try to potray their intelligence(?!) by criticising stalwarts like Mani & ARR.. they find some happiness doing so.. most of the obseravtions & criticism made with regard to Mani & ARR sans maturity. I feel Mr. Harish to be Vishal bhardwaj's clone, although i've nothing against him. Hope better sense prevails on Mr.Menon.
