Here are some key points which proponents of reservation very convinently forget and make a mokery of reservation and affirmative action.
1>> Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar the champion of backword classes had very clearly said in the constitution that the reservation policy be only followed for 10 years and then it be discontinued. But since it became a case of "Who will bell the cat" , it has been extended so many times last 60 years.
2>> When Reservation for SC, ST, BC's were proposed it was directly related to untouchability and untouchables. Hence reservations were given to communities of SC, ST and BS's. Due to the political pressure of TN politicians a totally new OBC class was invented. There was no mention of OBC's in the constitution , it was a totally new invention. Several affulent and agri rich communities were brought under the OBC classes when convinently forgeting OBC's were never untouchables and Dalits.
3>> All the ire of reservations was directed against the caste system in Hinduism. Then how was the reservations extended to Buddhists, Christians and Muslims..?? When did Christinity , Buddisim and Islam start to have castes system??? what is a dalit christian ??? if he is a christian then how can he be a dalit ?? Isnt someone missing or convinently forgetting the meaning of being a christian ???
4>>If you take the number of elected representatives in India , The corporators , The MLA's , The MP's , the ministers and the list of Chief Misters. You will nowhere find any Brahmins now. Infact you will find Either the caste upper castes like Khastriyas, Marathas, Yadavs, OBC's in these top posts. Even Police or government officers you hardly see any Brahmins nowdays. Populationwise Brahmins do not even have the 3 % mark, then where is the need of the anti Brahmin movement??? How or where do the "opress" someone to vent out the crocodile tears ??
5>> In areas of Business, Trade , Commerce, Entrepreneurship and Self Employment the Gujrathi, Jain, Marwadi, Agrawal, Bania, Sikh, Punjabi and Sindhi communities rule the roost. They with their family business type of structure, hard work and dedication run and own most of the small and medium business in the country and infact controll a large part of the ecconomy. Also their population also does exceed in anyways the 5 to 8 % mark. Most of the employment is also generated by them and their businesses. So isnt someone totally overlooking something ???
Tommorrow someone can say why is this community rich and why does this commmunity own all the businesses if he sees the caste wise ecconomic trends.
6>>I think we need to abolish reservations totally in all sectors. It would serve better if we exclude the caste and sub caste column totally in our birth certificates and School certificates. So no one knows his caste and no one writes his caste also. when there is no official record keeping of castes significane of castes and religion will cease to exist and it will be a personal affair and religion will be a personal prerogrative.
Otherwise its Brahmins then it will be the Kshatriyaas and Marathas, then it will be the other upper castes, then it will be the OBC's.
Turning a majority against a targetted minority can occur with any caste and community, so others Need NOT keep their eyes shut and bask in oblivion.
Today its Brahmins, tommorrow it will be somebody else too.
RE:Some key points which proponents of reservations very convinently forget.
by Ram Prasad on May 04, 2007 04:58 PM
Very Well said. The hue & cry over the issue is to get their kith & kin with reservations and Vote bank. Laloo, Mulayam etc.. will fall into OBCs now, almost 1/2 of the politicians will fall into OBCs, that's why all partys are unanimous in shouting for OBC reservations. Shame on them, how will India prosper with these type of rouges in power.
First of all, I m not brahmin. But still I am not anti brahmin.
I totally agree that brahmin ancestors really ruled on so called backward classes for centuries. But the question is for how many years, you will criticize them? Do you think, by beating/abusing Brahmins, other casts will have progress? How many Dalit leaders have really started schools for their community? Don't tell me abt 50 yrs back )Dr Ambedkar, Phule etc). I stay in a small town.. from childhood, I have seen Dalit people still resides in slums. Now for these yrs, they didn't have access to education. so no growth, no jobs.. whom to blame? Brahmin? So last 15-20 yrs, what these so called dalit leaders were doing? Has anybody went to slum area, staerted school/ tried for litercy? Its really irritating. You don't do anything for your community and then blame others. One more question, why everybody feels that all dalits are poor and all so called upper class are rich. In maharashtra, farmers who are doing suicide are from upper class only. Nowdays its a fashion to blame all upper casts. I aggree, By birth , nobody becomes Gr8. At least, In Today's world, This is situation. You have to take effoerts. Without taking efforts, how you can ask for jobs/education? Merit is always important. Why to become jealous on so called upper casts for merit? Whether all merit guys are so rich? They too work hard/take efforts? In today's world, almost all companies, never ask for your casts. In most of cases, you have to show merit. So its time for all so called dalits, to really work hard rather than to blame others.
RE:why to blame Brahmins only
by reformer on May 03, 2007 03:27 PM
One more point, people are not aginst reservations. But then resrvations should be for dalits who really are poor. I have seen, how my dalit classmate got admission in IITs inspite of scoring 60 percentile score. (This guy's father is class one officer) and other guys inspite of scoring 90 got admission in RECs( father of one guy is a clark in pvt firm, For pther guy, farmer)
Now if somebody demands for economy based reservation.. is it wrong?
RE:RE:why to blame Brahmins only
by Nathu Kabadi on May 03, 2007 04:34 PM
well this is a continuous process, dont know how many generations wud need reservation to bring them up, but by that time upper caste wud be lower caste
RE:why to blame Brahmins only
by shekar on May 04, 2007 10:08 PM
manuwadi system will not allow bahujans to grow ,it is always imbibed in the society to fight against each other,unless and untill untouchability is eradicated from ur minds bahujans cannot prosper and so called india will not be shining,political masters are always interested to keep manuwadi society intact thousands of schools will not solve the problem unless minds are changed for minds to change u dont require education u require heart and love for each other which is missing in hindu society.why brahmins are hated because they are carriers of this system.
RE:Please answer these, correct me if anything wrong in my views...
by Nathu Kabadi on May 03, 2007 04:38 PM
my only query to ur learned-self is WHO GAVE THE RESERVATIONS TO THESE LOW CASTES, think its ipper castes only, correct me if i m wrong
RE:Please answer these, correct me if anything wrong in my views...
by Beech Boy on May 03, 2007 03:07 PM
Dude, if you are so much against Brahmins, then why do you want reservations in elite institutions where most of the teachers are from the forward castes? Why don't you ask your lower class bretheren to teach you? Brahmins have come up only because of their hard work. Now, the reservation system has taken the wind out of the most prestigious institutions in this country.
RE:Please answer these, correct me if anything wrong in my views...
by Bal on May 03, 2007 04:42 PM
Dude, all the institutions where reservation is demanded and the brahmins who are teaching there are existing today because of the hard labour and the tax money paid by the other sections/castes of the society. Those institutions are not Brahmins' own institutions.
RE:Please answer these, correct me if anything wrong in my views...
by kris on May 03, 2007 03:34 PM
Dear B Boy
I am not saying that brahmins are not meritorious people. There will positive and negative points for any aspect. Do you think any thing irrational/irrelevant in the matter i posted??.
By having the knowledge, what they have done??.. just to keep themselves on the top, they kept other castes in dark. Dont say education is free today and anybody can go for schooling. I am just talking about the reasons for todays situation (brahmins/reservations/poverty) in india.
RE:RE:Please answer these, correct me if anything wrong in my views...
by Beech Boy on May 03, 2007 03:08 PM
One wouldn't really expect anything else from a convert, would one?
RE:Please answer these, correct me if anything wrong in my views...
by reformer on May 03, 2007 03:33 PM
Kris,What you have done for your community? have you really helped dalit guy for his education? You won't do it..instead you will write a report what happened for centuries.
So called dalit leaders are doing the same. They know, if they abuse so called brahmins, their chances to gain are more.(who will spend time on community upliftment..whats gain there?)
RE:RE:Please answer these, correct me if anything wrong in my views...
by kris on May 03, 2007 03:57 PM
Dear reformer
They are having so many good qualities. But what the use?. See any pvt company/MNC either IT or other sector. First all the managerial and top post will be occupied by these brahmin fellow. Let say thats ok. next what they are doing is they will search for other brahmins for the good positions.. the reason ... caste. They dont like to eat non-veg. thats ok. Why they treat/insult other people who are taking non-veg. Brahmins dont even like to sit besides the person who takes non-veg and treats the as pigs. Like so many ways they still dicriminating other castes. They prefer that all top/managerial posts should be own by brahmins only. By this way they making themselves as "Dish without salt" Gold is valuable but u cant eat it.
See the otherside :
All brahmins are not clever/knowledgable. But the inferior fello also wants to be treated as "HIGH". Today soe of them are drinking alcohol/ boozing in pubs/ filthy relations with ladies/ eating non-veg. But at the end of the day they claims that they r brahmins and they should be given high respect. Just give guns to everybody like in US, then u will understand whats the peoples responce.
RE:Please answer these, correct me if anything wrong in my views...
by reformer on May 03, 2007 04:20 PM
Kris, First of all, u didn't replied to my question in previous post. (what you are doing for ur own coomunity)
Anyway, I agree all Top guys are mosot of Brahmins only. I really disagree, they are there because of cast. In today's competitive global world, it really impossible to be on top position because of cast. In most of MNCs, where top management sitting in US?UK, do they prefer Brahmin guy in CEO of India operations? Its a big joke. Now subordinates of Brahmin guy. Believe me, cast really doesn't matters. In my career, rtnw, i m working is the 4th company. I was never asked abt my cast, nor seen favourism on cast basis. Yes.. favourism was there but based on region only.(southie favouring southie etc) Now abt eatbale, I don't think your pooint is valid. Now, do you know in restauarants, person sitting next to you, is if which cast.
Yes brahmins are intelligent.. so dalits are. Intelligence is not by birth. But knowlege gain is by system. Now if goverment is ofering reservations to Dalits and also free education. It means, at the end of education, all are at same level. then why to have again reservation in jobs. Why dalit students have complex? Why they are unable to compete and face interviews in PVT firms/MNCs. I did postgraduation in engg. My dalit classmates had lowest scores in entreance exams. they got free education plus stipend. Still they failed in exams and in campus interviews. Finally they got jobs as lectures in colleges (that too based on cast). Who is responsible? The interviewer on campus interviews? brahmins?
RE:Please answer these, correct me if anything wrong in my views...
by kris on May 03, 2007 04:49 PM
Dear reformer,
Regarding what i am doing to community. We a group of people (one point, i am not a brahmin or low caste, i am from FC only) are donating some money in a year to an org in our rural area which is striving for funds. as the govt is not active in filling the teachers posts, the schools are not having enough teachers. all our relatives and our caste people are studying in pvt schools as they can pay high fees and because of high stds. but what about the low income peoples children, if u see majority of them are from low-caste. so we formed as group to donate some money, which will be utilised for salaries of the teachers and for tuitions for children. but that not sufficient. Whenever we go our rural area we enquire about the school and visit the school. The govt.officer who looks after the schools (inspections) is reluctant to come to school. the reason-schools is located in a location which is surounded by low-caste/low-income people , which is generally a bit distant from the village(where high caste people resides). The ooficer is a brahmin who dont like to come to that place and place a complaint for the govt. for improving the fecilities. he openly says thats a dalits area, i wont come , whatever the education they are getting, thats more than enough etc.
You cant assess the real situation, by seeing cities. Go rural areas and you can easily observe these facts.
RE:RE:Please answer these, correct me if anything wrong in my views...
by reformer on May 03, 2007 05:19 PM
Kris,
If you are working for community, thas good. I know situation is not good in rural areas. There schools are in worst condition. But pls note, only dalit doesn't reside in rural areas. what dalit face problem, everybody faces same. Not evey rural upper cast guy is rich. Lot of them has a small land, lot of them works as labourers. But % of brahmins doing thses things are less. reason, brahmin who are poor, they will study hard,will never give up education, will save money as much as possible, may not spend money on other activities. Result.. next generation would be in comfortable situation. pls note, nowdays there are only two casts. With money and without money. Low income class need to be always dalit and high income class need not be Upper cast
RE:RE:Please answer these, correct me if anything wrong in my views...
by Sriram Vanamamalai on May 03, 2007 07:17 PM
Who said that Brahmins are not poor. Do you know the latest statistics learn that according to census Dept more than 70% of upper caste people do not go for higher education. your data that brahmins keep to themselves is wrong. So Here it does not mean its BCs and OBcs alone dont get oppurtunities everyone is on the same boat. the rich is becoming richer and the poor poorer. Its true in all communities. So what are we doing as acommunity to solve this. We need a reform at the grassroot level. Not infighting. Infighting among ourselves is not going to help anyone. We will still be at the same place even 50years down the line. this is precisely what the politicians want because this means more votes for them. What are our elected reps doing for the rural development? Does anyone ask that? Nowadays not many brahmins are in politics. What are your reps doing do you question them?
RE:RE:RE:Please answer these, correct me if anything wrong in my views...
by Santhanam Sudarsanan on May 07, 2007 06:45 PM
Sitting next to the person eating Non-veg is one's own personal wish based on the likes and dislikes. I don't see any point in casting aspersions on the intentions. If I have developed hatred towards particular food type I may be nauseated by the mere smell of it. How does caste come into picture in this?
RE:PRIEST
by reformer on May 03, 2007 03:58 PM
I guess, periyaar during whole life, tried to abuse Brahmins only. He didn't start schools/ opened boarding houses. He knew, rather than doing this consructive things, if he abuses only,he will get more gains. In constrast, K.B.Patil from Western maharashtra, started RAYAT Education, openeded no of scools, started *earn and laern* schemes for poor people. That was a fantastic job. I really praise him for that
THE CONTRIBURION OF PERIYAR TO TAMIL COMMUNITY IS NOTHING.
HE IS THE MOST OVERRATED LEADER IN TAMIL NADU.
HE INCREASE THE TUSSEL BETWEEN LOWER CAST AND UPPERCAST.
UNLIKE BARATHI AND KAMARAJ HE CANNOT ABLE TO INFLUENCE THE PEOPLE OF "INDIA OR TAMIL NADU"
this movie too i think would have a zero influence on people as they allready forget this men. people are demolishing the statue of this so called gr8 leader
I think Hindu gods of the past are nothing but good people who benefitted people, so people started worshipping them. Now the same thing is repeating people are worshipping Ambedkar/Periyar because of their efforts to bring up downtrodden people. The common thread running through this is the immaturity of the Indian people who worship instead of following ideals. And once we start worshipping anybody we become blind to their weaknesses. I am pretty sure a 100 years down the line, most of the temples in TN will have periyar statues installed in them
RE:Now
by vijayachandran r on May 03, 2007 03:19 PM
you say the "immaturity of the Indian people". So what you say about those who worship Jesus? Wasn't he a human ?
RE:Now
by veer raaj on May 03, 2007 01:53 PM
And there was a person called Ram, who was made rama and then a temple was built and people worshipped him.
RE:Now
by Indian on May 03, 2007 03:30 PM
If I like to be like our president Kalam, I will worship him. Worship is not garlands and prayers, Its more of expression of respect to an identity and its principles. If u do that u worship.
hate a person/community completely finding everything he does wrong, or we find everything he/community does to be right. No middle ground nothing but senseless hero-worship or senseless hate-mongering.
