More this articles it seems the readers commenrs crossed limits and many abused messages are removed, shows that usman khawaja has indeed crossed limits. But i thank JC for giving fitting reply. Anyways I havent watched Water as I came to know that its against our culture and Country. So i wont watch as well. Nominated for oscar just bcoz it will represent India as ill filled country. Hhaahahah.. Oscar is nothing but crap show. So me neither interested in that. Anyways, thanks guys for the defending our country. Jai Hindustan.
RE:Good job Jayanth Choudary
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 27, 2007 12:08 AM
Thanks Srinivasa. We needed some support from Hindustani's like you. We had some defenders such as Desi and John who were also very bold in showing their support.
RE:ONE OF THE BEST MOVIES
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 21, 2007 11:23 PM
BTW: The point was if you did see something like that happening, what did you do about it?? My question is: Will something change or will there be "samaaj sudhaar" if someone makes a movie on this?? Answer is: NO. This does not bring any changes in the plight of those poor souls. If Deepa wanted to do something about it then she should have done other things like leading a movement, do some real social work. How about opening an ashram for Hindu widows??
By making this movies, getting name and fame (Oscar) and money and lucrative contracts (movie with Johny Depp) was the sole intent. Deepa is lowest of low who will use others suffering to promote herself and her real intent. *** That is another way to abuse those widows. ***
RE:RE:ONE OF THE BEST MOVIES
by Indian on Feb 22, 2007 08:04 PM
Deepa is a filmaker which earn bread for her. She has the right to choose a subject to make a movie and if she chooses subject of social problems in Inida whats wrong with it ? At least she is trying to highlight some problems India is still facing. By the way she is not making movies to do social service. Who is living in this world to do social service ? Everyone is doing certain things to earn money only and while we earn money we are able to associate something with it which is useful for the society then it should be appriciated.
RE:RE:RE:ONE OF THE BEST MOVIES
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 22, 2007 09:29 PM
She does have a right to chose her subject, similarly I have a right to speak my mind and bring out what I think was the reason behind this movie.
Before people start praising her for "bringing out" the ill and evil of India, they need to ponder what the real intent was and what can be the best approach to get our country rid of the social issues.
And I am not sure if this movie will be "useful for the society" in order to bring any changes to the plight of the helpless and poor widows.
I equate this kind of film making ("Oh I am doing this to bring out the dirt in India and make some changes.") while the intent is to be recognized; with ("We are going to free Iraq.") while the intent is oil...
Hypocrisy at its best. And what is worst, people like you are buying that argument.
RE:RE:RE:RE:ONE OF THE BEST MOVIES
by Summer on Feb 24, 2007 01:04 AM
deepa mehta has made this movie for as a filmamaker as she cannot be stopped for the reasons u mentioned. 90% of the movies made in india show india in very high respefct does that mean the all outsiders think india is like that ? movie cannot show whole of india and indian culture in anyway. it can only depict a very small portion of it. by the way if we dont accept our mistakes then we never correct it also. if some thing shown in water is the real thing then lets accept it and try to correct it.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:ONE OF THE BEST MOVIES
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 27, 2007 12:02 AM
If that was the real thing I would have accepted it... But I can lie low and let a person like Deepa abuse India and women like she showed in Water for her own causes..
But you will not understand the fact that there are people who will form an image of a nation or its masses based on what they see on media such as movie.
As you said movies can not show India or our culture completely, but the point is that a small portion that too a really shocking one leaves a lasting impression.
But maybe you will not get it.
And BTW: she can nto be stopped and no one can be in a democracy. But I do have a right to protest.
RE:ONE OF THE BEST MOVIES
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 21, 2007 11:17 PM
"I have been to Varanasi and to Vidhava Ashrams. I can confidently say that ALMOST ALL ashrams are den of prostitutions and small time goons, politicians, business people and even religious leaders enjoy the "fruits" of our culture."... >> Huh, this is BS from SB.
bachan is a hindu man hes working with deepa if she had been offensive to hinduism he would never do so , jaya is a really good hindu and shes praised deepas work again and again i havent read vedas in details but most of my hindu friends in uk havent either ,im sure if dipa was wrong bachans wouldve said so
RE:WATER IS AGAINST PEADOPHILES
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 20, 2007 03:07 AM
"Jaaki Rahi Bhaawanaa Jaisi Yeh Duniyaa Dekhi Tin Taisi" (One sees the world the way one's thought/ideas are.)
Khwaja: While I am happy to know that you think Pedophiles are worst human beings, and I think the same way. But I am sad to see that you are terming anyone and everyone who does not agree with the intent of this movie and does not like the content, as Pedophile. Not liking something on the bases of intent does not mean one likes the crime and is a criminal. - If there is movie that shows a mullah raping a 10 year old and you say it is not correct representation of Islam, would that make you a pedophile? No.
You are sounding like Bush "You are either with us or against us."; while the truth is if one is not with you, it does not mean one is against you. But it takes more maturity to understand that, can I expect that from you????
RE:RE:RE:RE:WATER IS AGAINST PEADOPHILES
by usman khawaja on Feb 20, 2007 10:02 PM
sir how did i offend your religion u r the one who was abusing me as paki thank you
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:WATER IS AGAINST PEADOPHILES
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 27, 2007 12:07 AM
Rediff,
I am not sure how can you remove my reply which was really without any abuses... You are doing a dis-service if you are removing my replies that do not contain any abusing language or even accusations on anyone.
I had put a reply (and a fitting one) to Mr Khawaja, but you removed it for god-knows-what reasons.
Do not try to dampen my spirit.
I will reply again and again and again and we will see how may times you can remove it.
RE:RE:RE:WATER IS AGAINST PEADOPHILES
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 21, 2007 12:26 AM
Tell me where in the world children are not abused??? And let me tell you I am dead against that and will do anything I can to stop that.
But a movie showing that can not be and will never be true representation of Hinduism and its practices. However, unfortunately, west (which is least educated about other religions and culture even when it has people of those backgrounds living there) will see only that and think about Hinduism like that.
That is the objection that I have and I did not like the way Mr UK has been attacking and labeling others as "pedophiles".
If this movie was about only child abuse, then I would have lauded the efforts by the director, but it is not about that. It is more to misrepresent Hinduism and using that to further her own cause (i.e. make name and fame).
Just to let you know how this movie can misguide west in what they think about India and Hindus in particular...
We had gone for lunch to an mom-pop Italian restaurant. The owner is a nice and friendly guy. He came to out table and started talking about this great movie he has seen about India and Hindus (you can guess the movie), but we did not know the movie he was talking about at that point since he did not say the name.
Then he went on saying that he learned a lot the way Hindus act and behave and specially the way widows are treated. This got alarm bells ringing in our ears. Then he revealed the name, and yes of course it was Water.
It was our turn to be "sharm se pani pani (water)"...
Then we had to explain to him, that: 1) To begin with this movie is about past (way back). 2) And that practice, even if it exists, is not common in India. India is a huge country and like any religion, people in different parts have different traditions and thoughts even if they belong to same religion. 3) It is only a movie and it uses "shock factor" like the shows and movies in USA. 4) It is not representative of India and Hinduism...
But I am not sure how much of it went down his brain, and of course, we can not explain things to each westerner who watches this movie and draws conclusions about India and Hinduism.
The worst thing is the fact the west likes to see India and Hinduism in that light only. - See any place, they love to talk about Hanuman and Ganesh and make fun of them as "monkey and elephant gods". - They link the Trishul (Trident) of Shiv with trident of Devil. - Swastika is known as only Nazi symbol. - Picture of India (on some kiddy toys) is shown with snake-charmers. All this in today's world.
With all this, all I am trying to say is that is we Indians and Hindu in particular keep show casing ourselves in that degrading light, then we are playing in their hands only. Each religion and place on this earth has it's own flaws.. but it does not mean we show only that.
We need to also present the good that makes a religion and nation survive and thrive for so long
RE:A Real Incidence In USA
by Surabhi Gupta on Feb 23, 2007 05:48 PM
Dear Mr. JC, As you said some people in west may see India in a negative light because of the film Water, but I am sure the majority already think of India as a very advanced nation esp. in technology (thanks to all the media attention to outsourcing). And anyway I think the point is (as someone pointed out earlier in the discussion) why should we be worried about what the "westerners" think about us. We have a rich culture (despite some of its shortcomings) and we should be proud of it. How does it matter if they represent India with a picture of snake-charmers or refer to Ganesh as the elephant god - we know what each part of Ganesh's head symbolizes (eg. big ears to show he is a good listener etc) and we do have snake charmers who are experts in their art! So why should their comments (or probable comments) bother us??????
And on a personal note, I find it really strange that you claim to be such a patriotic Indian but still live in the USA!!!
And last but not the least, my views about the movie Water - it was a well made movie about a STORY set in the 1930s/1940s. The movie Devdas is set in the same era, but nobody has any such strong comments about it because it is KNOWN to be based on a novel. So why can't people just watch this movie with the same view - a fictitious story set in that time period ? (though I must warn that it left me feeling sad at the end since it has a lot of unhappy things happening). But yes the bottom line is whether the majority of viewers like the movie or not, they will talk about it due to all the controversy - which definitely helps Deepa Mehta!
RE:RE:A Real Incidence In USA
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 24, 2007 04:37 AM
Dear Surabhi,
Please see my replies in line with your comments.
"And on a personal note, I find it really strange that you claim to be such a patriotic Indian but still live in the USA!!! " >> Living in India is not a measure of patriotism. I can be (and will be patriotic Indian) wherever I live in this world. In fact, to be honest with you, I have become more patriotic while I am staying in USA. And it hurts more to see what world (not everyone though) thinks of India. - And for your kind information, I have spend 6 years of my youth in the service of my motherland India by being a memeber of armed forces. - So, please do not make such statements.
RE:RE:A Real Incidence In USA
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 27, 2007 12:46 AM
Dear Surabhi,
There is no greatness in being "koop mandook" (koop = well, mandook = frog).
We can not rest and be content unless we defend our "image/depiction" as a country of snake-charmers and widow abusers. It is good to think of ourselves as great nation and great masses, also behave like one, but even better is to stand up and fight for what is right. That is what Bhagavad-Gita and Ramayana have shown us. If you have to fight for "satya" (right) then do it without doubting yourself and worrying about who will be on the side of "asatya".
BTW: I respect snake-charmers and as a child had always enjoyed their art. It is just that the image of India that is at stake here.
For your information, a nations image plays a vital role in democracy. For example when Americans think about India they think of a land of a certain culture, when they think of Afghanistan they think differently. And in democracy, specially the one like USA, people's perception and therefore their input plays a vital role in the decisions taken by law-makers.
And most importantly, do snake-charmers really represent India? What percentage of population do they consist of? Is that all India can display to the world? Why in the west they do not talk that India gave the current numbering system, zero and decimal point to the world?? Why not they show our classical arts such as dances (Bharat Naatyam, Kathakali to name a few) etc. as representative of India??
I agree that with the new age of technology, lot more people see India a force to reckon with, but we can not let our image be tainted by people who try to ridicule India in any way they can think of. Can we??
RE:A Real Incidence In USA
by usman khawaja on Feb 17, 2007 08:43 PM
THE WEST IS NOT AS STUPID AS YOU THINK THEY RULED INDIA FOR TWO HUNDRED YEARS THEY KNOW YOU BETTER THEN YOU , GET A LIFE DUDE
RE:RE:RE:A Real Incidence In USA
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 20, 2007 09:39 PM
Mr UK,
Get some GK and some lessons in history... India was not ruled by outsiders because of that. But maybe you will not learn that since you are living in UK.
They had better weapons and we were busy fighting amongst ourselves (and of course there were traitors who sold their motherland to firangs and before that to mughals).
Please do not tell me that they are better, specially about my religion and my country they (and you) can not know better..
Do not put something for the sake of argument. Add some weight to our talk board.
RE:RE:RE:RE:A Real Incidence In USA
by usman khawaja on Feb 20, 2007 10:09 PM
mr j c everywhere in indopak ive been there is open sewage lying everywher , heaps of filth and bad hygiene how can you justify those countries , people who cant even keep themseles clean , both physically and spritually corrupt , isnt it much more so there then in the west , these people admit there mistakes and reform ,just look at the shilpa episode , yes i do admit theres no perfect society but the west is better then indopak
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:A Real Incidence In USA
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 27, 2007 12:03 AM
Mr UK,
Some places being cleaner (in material senses) than others do not make them better than those unclean places. Indo-Pak do not have much of money (and political will) to make things better. But as I have seen in India with my won eyes and observations (not some crap article), things are getting better.
I can bet that you have not visited India and all you have seen is movies like Water (Fire, Earth, and countless "art" movies). They show only filth and dirt of India and then people like you who have never been there, jump to only that conclusion. I am not saying that India is super-clean and I do not deny that there is a lot of filth and dirty stuff on roads. But India is more than that.
If you think like that, then you are like one of the blind men in a room with elephant. Everyone who "sees" only one part thinks of elephant to be that part only.
Shilpa episode was not only guilt of the nation (for treating her like that), it was also because of the fact the Shilpa behaved better than that stupid girl. It was Shilpa's own behavior apart from other things that made her win it.
But let it be also known that the child abuse that happens in west is unparallel and I am talking about sexual abuse. With all the law enforcement and judiciary and child protection laws, west (specially USA) is more filthy in that area than any other place on earth. And just the number of kids being abused is not the sole criterion. With the amount of money and resources that they have, with the cleanliness (outward) that they are proud of, there are a lot of people who are full of filth and are truly the low of the lowest.
Outward dirty and filth (though very abominable) is not the true reflection of a nation and society and its state of mind.
I have met some very fantastic human beings (very caring, helping, understanding and just "good" human beings who were dirty outwardly, mostly due to poverty and lack of education. But that did not make me label their souls and minds as dirty. I have been touched by their kindness and example of a good human being.
At the same time there are people who live in extreme luxury and are really "clean", but their minds and souls are full of filth towards children. Those people include clergy, doctors, lawyers and law-makers (politicians in USA). What do you say about that??
In my humble opinion west is not better than India, specially not on moral grounds. As far as material world is concerned, the gap is narrowing and with God's grace, one day we will be at par or even better than west.
Dear Mr Verma, Thank you. It is so great that you have stopped writing. If you were so touched by some dark stories you better had. About Water, it has atleast 10 (and more) directorial flaw (for a layman). We all know why is it for Oscars. So how much did Deepa donate/give to the widows finally?
RE:RE:To Mr Suparn
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 16, 2007 09:28 PM
And what have you done about suffering of others? You are the one with big bad mouth.
And BTW: Deepa should have enough conscience to use some of the money she earned (and will earn using this as stepping stone) to share the rewards that she got for suffering of others. How about opening an Aashram herself where no lady will be exploited again..
What do you do if you are so touched by suffering?? >> You do not make a movie and gain name and money by that. >> You fight for change and eliminate suffering. And do not tell me Deepa's way is another way to bring change. This is just a way to make money and name.
All these directors and movie makers are not social workers (read "samaaj sudhakaar"), they are just businessmen/women. The real workers were like Raja Ram Mohan Rai, Mahatma Gandhi, Baba Amate to name a few.
Those are the kind of great people we need, not money hungry people like Deepa.
