just a few facts on the movie. the movie has been ripped off from the central plot of a famous bengali novel which projects life in the 19th-20th century Kolkata. Ms. Mehta obviously never acknowledged the same. and copyright laws in the country are not that strong to defend a local writer from an "internationally acclaimed" director. so much for morality of Ms. Mehta... whereas the book talked about everything of those days(thats the name of the english translation) in kolkata which included the positives and negatives, the movie abviously in true Ms. Mehta style talks only about one aspect of the society. the fact is that Ms. Mehta has made a career out of india bashing and we indians have accepted the same and even lauded the same. fire was despicable in its portrayal of the indian male. many movies were made on the subject before but with a lot more taste. it at least did not look at things in abs black and white where an indian male can either be a wimp or a rapist. earth was better as it was based on a novel. however i cannot comment on fire as i have not seen it.
however it will be unfortunate if a film which has been based on a stolen story wins an oscar.
btw, i know about this as there had been a move by the writer to nail Ms. Mehta but obviously he could not stand against a towering ms mehta. btw- for those who want a taste of "class" of Ms. Mehta please go and watch Bollywood Hollywood. there men are either spineless or homosexuals. carry your sickness bags with you...
RE:interesting world of oscars
by Jayant Chaudhary on Feb 16, 2007 04:37 AM
I lived your analysis and your presentation of fact.
I hate Deepa since she has used us (India and Indians) and degraded us in the eyes of west (and west loves that). But most unfortunately, some people in India also love Deepa for that.
Talk about sense and hunger to be called "modern".
A MOVIE IS MADE IN PAKISTAN IN NANKANA SAHIB AND INDICTS SIKHS AND MUSLIMS AND RIGHTLY SO OF EVILS GALORE AND HYPOCRISY ,JUST AS POWERFUL AS WATER IS AWARDED AT BERLIN , KIRON KHER IS STUPENDOUS THE REST OF PAKISTANI CAST IS EQUALLY GOOD IT EXPLORES AND GETS TO THE ROOTS OF FUNDAMENTALISM AS A WAY TO EXPLOIT INNOCENT PEOPLE AND IS WORTHY OF LOT MORE AWARDS . IT IS EXTREMELY CRITICAL OF MUSLIM CLERICS AND SIKH HYPOCRISY AS WELL , YET I DONT SEE MUSLIMS OR SIKHS RUNNING TO CONDEMN IT OR BAN IT IVE SEEN IT AND CHERISH IT . YES IM A MUSLIM AND VERY PROUD TO BUT IF ANYONE TRIES TO EXPLOIT MY ISLAM FOR PERSONA GAINS AT THE COST OF MAKING HUMANITY SUFFER IWILL CONDEMN THEM , NO W GO WATCH THE TWO CLASSIC REFORMATIVE MOVIES AND IF YOU WANT TO ABUSE ME FOR SAYING THAT IM ASHAMED OF =WHAT THE HINDU FRIENDS HAVE BEEN WRITING ABOUT DEEPA ON THIS SITE , THEN IM MORE THEN HAPPY TO TAKE ALL YOUY INVECTIVES . IT WILL BE AN HONOUR FOR A WORTHY CAUSE
RE:KHAMOSH PANI VERSUS WATER
by sayan mukherjee on Feb 05, 2007 06:38 PM
hi usman i do not know whether you know much about indian cinema. there have been enuf movies in this country which has been extremely critical of many wrongs of the society. and all of them were made peacefully. Khamosh Paani was a very good movie. however about what you have written- such bold movies and much more have been made in this country. you can watch Satgati, Deeksha, Devi, Devshishu etc. even mainstream movies like nikaah, bombay, etc. all these movies dealt with very controversial subjects and were accepted by the society. so learn more about india before jumping to such silly conclusions. the problem with shooting of water was much more complicated and political(rather than reigious) than you know.
and please do not place water in the same league as khamosh paani. and there is nothing reformist about water. it would be at the best an attempt at selling self degrading orientalism to the west. so you also should be beware of such movies. but i should not comment more as i have not seen it. more when i manage to see it. but the topic definitely has no link with our times today if the stuff which has been written about it is to be believed( i am talking about positive stuff only).
and another thing. in india, contrary to your ideas different views are not shot down. that is why we manage to have so many opinions about this one subject in the first place :-)
RE:RE:KHAMOSH PANI VERSUS WATER
by usman khawaja on Feb 05, 2007 08:12 PM
really sayan arent you contradicting yourself as the fact is water was not allowed to be shot in india and though khamosh pani is anti muslim it was shot in pakistan showing the reactions of muslim fundamentalists , as a british canadian i feel pakistanis did a much better job then you indians despite your so called secularism and only in vitro freedom of speech
RE:RE:KHAMOSH PANI VERSUS WATER
by usman khawaja on Feb 05, 2007 07:47 PM
the issue is simple hindu fundamentalists like you guys didnt allow water to be filmed in india you ought to be ashamed of that fact, stop dragging mecca and taliban into it , you are all responsible as indians in that simple act to curb freedom of speech , i think shabana has very aptly described how hindu fundamentalists stopped freedom of speech and as for peace hawavian pezania and dev show aptly how you hindus treat your religious minorities killing a muslim or parsi or sikh is easier to your conscience then a silly cow even if its a mad cow , the gujrat riots were not peaceful and what has mr sanjeev done about that genocide amnesty international talks of thousands of muslims girls being raped and molested by indian army in kashmir what is your opinion on that , its hypocrisy for you mr sanjeev to state one thing and in deeds to condone something totally opposite , this hypocrisy will always plunge india into being one of the worst third world countries as it is at the moment
RE:KHAMOSH PANI VERSUS WATER
by Sourabh Ahuja on Feb 03, 2007 05:33 PM
well done Usman...i applaud you for your views...I wish more people could see life the way you do.
RE:RE:RE:KHAMOSH PANI VERSUS WATER
by sanjeev sharma on Feb 05, 2007 03:40 AM
Mr. khwaja,
I'm bit confused with your message, what reformative movie you are talking about? Deepa has not raised an issue which will bring any kind of revolution in Indian society. there are many more problems in India which deserves media attention but nobody care to bring them in mainstream cinema because they will not generate the kind of sensation which movies like WATER/FIRE does. deepa mehta is a smart woman, she purposefully picks up topics which are controversial and always manages doing good business. As per you feeling ashamed of views expressed by Hindus I would suggest to look back the reaction of Muslims on Danish cartoonist. We are a democracy and uphold the right to express our views in a peaceful manner. Don't compare an internet discussion with your ugly street demonstration and riots.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:KHAMOSH PANI VERSUS WATER
by usman khawaja on Feb 05, 2007 05:19 AM
and the danes have a right to publish what the like , the muslims are wrong to criticise freedom of speech
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:KHAMOSH PANI VERSUS WATER
by sanjeev sharma on Feb 05, 2007 07:11 AM
here we go with another talibanic order, I'm not in pakistan dear so don't try to scare me!!! now you see hypocrisy...opposing anything against Islam is justified if Hindus does so they are wrong. as far as a protest is done peacefully it is not wrong, ya if it is done in the manner you guys did in pakistan by burning down embassy then that's really shamefull. but then you are hardly a democracy :-)%u2026..I hope with time you ppl will get educated and will learn to tolerate others views in a positive manner even if they are not to your taste...grow up buddy will help you!!!
RE:RE:KHAMOSH PANI VERSUS WATER
by usman khawaja on Feb 05, 2007 08:06 PM
what an ugly face ho hindu fundamentalism you are showing mr shankar there are shudras in every city of india treated worse then slaves why dont you talk of them and for fatwas you ask the mufti in mecca to do that its out of my jurisdiction and eat some chocolate you sound very bitter
RE:RE:RE:When will Deepa make movies about moraless whites?
by K on Feb 06, 2007 03:51 AM
Hmmm someone is missing me here ehh...FYI i wasnt talking about your kind hearted contributions to your motherland or your stellar pedigree. I was talking about your blatant disloyalty to the country you are living and the people you chose to live with. You obviously hold deep rooted hatred and low opinion about west and whites "I can quote you on that"... May I ask why did you choose to move to US and live with these people who live like shady animals ( You said so)%u2026..(For some noble reasons i believe%u2026)... So stop preaching your loath all holier than thou confused philosophy and learn a thing or two about loyalty.. You know what is more pathetic than your racist rants against your own neighbors, it%u2019s your cowardice sleeper cell existence.. I wonder you share your opinions about (west/whites) with your community there? You are nothing but an opportunistic grasshopper looking out for greener pastures.. so stop calling yourself a Devout hindu and selling philosophy like some swami, cuz you are not. Peace%u2026.
RE:When will Deepa make movies about moraless whites?
by Lubna Dastagir on Feb 03, 2007 02:06 AM
i really dont understand if these comments are for the movie or GOD knw's wat.... i think we should just stick to the topic of the movie and Deepa Mehta... it is due to her ill understanding that she could not make this movie in a positive light... and people who talk about illtreatment of widows and support deepa, well there are other movies which deal with it effectively enough for eg DOR.
RE:When will Deepa make movies about moraless whites?
by guru kothandaraman on Feb 07, 2007 04:49 PM
I havent seen water and I dont intend to also.. I have watched two of her earlier movies.. earth 1947 and fire.. My simple conlcusion is that under the guise of showcasing controversial issues.. I saw that Deepa mehta movies are more into skin and flesh show..
Let her undertsand that these fluffy and superficial story lines will not sell in India..
RE:RE:RE:RE:When will Deepa make movies about moraless whites?
by usman khawaja on Feb 05, 2007 08:02 PM
sanjeev im not a pakistani but i remember one of your idiot indian actor insulting pakistan in that country on their tv , if it was you guys in india im sure u would have arrested him as a terrorist as you usuallyt do , im a british canadian muslim but ill never visit india the way you trat muslims there and its evident from your views here
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:When will Deepa make movies about moraless whites?
by usman khawaja on Feb 09, 2007 05:14 AM
DEAR SANJEEV YOU HAVE SIMPLY NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTION AS TO WHY WATER WAS NOT ALLOWED TO BE SHOT IN INDIA ISNT IT NEGATING FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND ALSO PROTECTING HIERARCHY AS FOR PAKISTANI AND INDIAN ATRISTS THEY HAVE AGAIN NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEBATE YOU ARE SAYING ALL MUSLIMS ARE FUNDANENTALISTS BECAUSE IM ASKING YOU A SIMPLE QUESTION ABOUT THE MOVIE , THANK YOU IF YOU GIVE ME A VALID REPLY AND NOT JUST BADMOUTH ISLAM AND PAKISTAN EVEN A 4YEAR OLD CAN DO SO , ILL GIVE YOU THE ASSUMPTION OF HAVING A BETTER IQ
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:When will Deepa make movies about moraless whites?
by sanjeev sharma on Feb 06, 2007 02:03 AM
why is it that you only see one particular incident as the standard, why not take many cases before making any opinion? pakistan does not even allow indian artist to perform, that was the one odd event which you are talking about. contrary to that there are so many pakis in India and nobody bothers. India is yet not fully developed but it certainly deserves much better depiction than what water has done or you imagine. as per you visit to india, I would say with so much hatered and bias you are definitely not welcome..
I agree with the majority here. Looking back here I can only see deepa making films showing India in a bad light. I am still waiting from her to make a film celebrating Indian tolerance, peace and rise from downtroddeness. I agree Water is a good films and things like that have been in our society but doesnt mean we keep showing only these to the already distorted image in the western world. And ofcourse they will Oscar to any film showing Hinduism in bad light. And they will oppose any film showing christianity association with sex example: Da Vinci Code. I wonder why they could not select Rang de Basanthi. Grow up Deepa Mehtha.Filmakers like shyam benegal had an agenda for every dark film they made they would also make inspiring films all based int eh same land.atleast have that sort of justice.When you are showing the evils of hindusim also show its beauty. And please somebody tell the westerners: Hiduism is not all about Child widows and erotica. Like all other religions, that was only a part of the whole.
RE:deepa mehta
by K on Feb 01, 2007 06:02 AM
It's all about how west receives our movies eh..If you are so pissed at west why do you care so much about them. I mean cant you think of an object for it's value than thinking about how west will react to it. So you think west needs this movie to learn about the ill treatment of widows. Do you really think people judge an entire culture/race/whatever based on a MOVIE... If people around the world want to learn about indian culture do you really think that you and other folks can control what they can and cant learn. The world as we know is getting smaller. And the fact that these people got kicked out and punished for trying to make a movie tells a lot about the tolerance you are raving about.... If you really think people cant find the information about Varanasi widows anywhere other than this movie.. why dont you google it for yourself..OOPs i forgot internet is also western aide.. It's all just a myth created by WEST... Just for your info Davinci Code raked Millions in Just US alone.. How much WATER is going to make in INDIA...Forget it's very amusing that you talk about TOLERANCE ... when the article above is about how bunch of individuals got kicked out for .......heck with it .... you people never change..
RE:RE:deepa mehta
by desi on Feb 06, 2007 09:35 AM
Hi K, have a look at the following article
http://www.hvk.org/articles/0200/4.html
before u say ...you people never change just talk to some western politicians who are busy drafting legislations to stop outsoring of job. wake up man!! party is getting over...
The fact that the Deepa Mehta's movie is being tauted for Oscars at once makes it suspect in my eyes. So it must be in the vein of a culturally negative theme, such as the Booker (?) prize for Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses (but at least he definitely has artistic talent, although misused and exploitative in that book).
I have seen Deepa Mehta's earlier movies, and her artistic abilities are un-impressive; kind of facile and easy themes to take. Kindergarten like "Hollywood Bollywood", where she is simplistically mocking Hindi movie habits of romance and song, with a commentary to boot for the western audience. I am also not a fan of un-artistically made crude Hindi movies; but Deepa Mehta uncontrollably lurching to place that as celluloid commentary tells me she is eager for easy-picking, but devoid of artistic talent.
A few hundred year old theme of ostracized widows is not at all unbelievable, but making a movie carelessly to malign a religion or Manusmruti for that matter, is not much of an achievement, certainly not artistic achievement. True artist's accomplishment lies not in merely exploiting a sad subject for a movie, where viewers' sympathy is easy to obtain. An artistic movie-maker handles even poverty background for the story he intends to tell with a class, example Satyajit Ray. And in commercial Hindi cinema Bimal Roy or Guru Dutt are en-equalled in their story-weaving ability without being exploitative. Benegal's Ankur was definitely a class movie, which depicted mal-treatment of poor landless laborer couple, without the holier-than-thou attitude of damning an entire culture, like the leftists tend to do, because they have political grist to grind or as in Mehta's case, sell it to a sympathetic but ill-informed audience like westerners, who are brought up to look down upon other cultures for over 200 years.
This does not mean I support "burning the book". But lauding a leftist of easy picking is like entering a donkey in a horse race of top breeds.
ALL this futile and vain opposition against water is disgusting...and people need to take things in perspective and think logically and with rationale.telling the world the shortcomings in the system needs to be done.most of the people here and outside "strictly against" WATER and alleging degrading of our country's image are like frogs in a well...and for all i can say...pretty narrow minded.before commenting on anything,ppl should look at the broader picture and think abt the widows and girls actually being subject to unequal treatment,explotation and humiliation.making movies like water is a way to let people like us and everywhere else know what actually is the "scenario" of our so called rich culture and wht needs to be corrected...similar "weakness" in other countries of west/religions/castes etc going unquestioned does not mean they are either right or true to their kind...its a bad case of apathy
This fellow is an utter failure. Look at the movies he has written (Qayamat, Zameen and Jaanasheen). Qayamat was screwed up version of The Rock. I am sure he would have been failure in journalism too.
I never met any prostitute in Kashi. Cooked up the story and to add masala he said that he never came up with the story as he became "emotional vegetarian".
India doen't need hypocrites. Send the to UK so that they can support Shilpa Shetty(s).
Swami vivekananda said do not pin the bads in a wrong person, show him the good in him. Similar to society explore the strength to remove the darks. Without bringing or showing light people like Dipa Mehta explores dark, which may be real may be virtual but their objective is not solving the problem, objective is to raise hue and cry by any means and becoming popular. See the movie, something which is important specifically neglected like sensitivity or moral fighting with bads is never there. All characters are really fictitious, can never exist in reallity. Did anybody took DM to mental doctors, I think there we can find important answers.
We talked to several Varanasi people, but they never new stories like DMs ever. Similar distortions could happen anywhere. But Varanasi is oldest living havitant in the world, easy to get into oscar is not it. Anyway, put down my word, they are never going to get it, Hollywood selects but gives the prize to the original one. Lobby is there, but upto nomination.
Thank you Suparn for the story. Not only those associated with the film and Deepa Mehta, even we, the common Indian are relieved it is finally made. What a vindication! This is a happy moment, a triumph of good over evil.
RE:RE:Thank You Suparn
by aravind s on Jan 30, 2007 06:04 PM
Hi,
I share a similar opinion to Rima's,I don't understand why deepak is so afftected when talking about the darker side of us.Anything,including hinduism have it's share of good and bad sides.Why you should get angry over the person who talk fearlessly about his failures?Just because we agree that your system is bad,we are not losing anything to anybody,especially to the 'west'.You may have problem with what west may think about us,But I don't have.I don't give too much importance to west and I am not worried about an outsider.Your response shows the dirty indian mind which is trying to please the whole world.What is there in our image?If we did some mistakes tell this to whole world correct ourself.Instead you want to hide our short comings.Have you ever heard a name like Mahatma Gandhi before?I don't think so,anyway.
First let us correct ourself,then we will talk about other contries.Just because somebody else is doing crime,we can't force us to do the same.
It's clearly Deepa Mehta's Victory!If Water wins OSCAR it will be the worst day for 'Incredible India'!.Because the whole world(not just west) will come to know the 7 year old story of the struggle of a Film maker.Get prepared for that,brother!
RE:RE:RE:Thank You Suparn
by deepak deshpande on Jan 31, 2007 06:30 AM
Hey., Arvind the truth is neither Deepa Mehta nor her supporters are interested in removing the sufferings of widows. She only wants money and fame by projecting negative side of India. When somebody keeps quite while a 100 rs note is being burnt but starts shouting at loss of 50 paisa coin it is fishy.-- Deepak Deshpande
