so far, with the exception of a few filmmakers, I am yet to come across an artist who can subtly and aesthetically handle the concept of 'universal brotherhood' - 100 years ago, one unheard-of monk from India addressed a huge gathering in the USA as "brothers and sisters"! that one phrase epitomises not just tolerance, but the universal love that our culture HAS ALWAYS tried to practise - true, we have had untouchability, true we have had widows being ill-treated, but to showcase these aspects in the crudest, most absurdly myopic fashion, that most of our filmmakers do, showcases our immaturity in handling such sensitive issues - as someone here rightly pointed out, widowhood was a state inflicted on our women by so many factors/circumstances, like invasions and wars -for instance, one community in N.India even today strictly follows a tradition of conducting marriages late in the nights, because, during the days of Mughal invasion, it was safer to do so, when marriages during daytime used to catch them unawares when they were attacked! today, in modern India, things have improved by leaps and bounds - we had a lady prime minister, women have gone on to lead/manage companies and girls are doing as good as boys at from school onwards - a hundred Deepa Mehtas with their sick 'visionary' approach will not deter the dynamic heart and soul of my country! JAI HIND!
We should not pay a lot of attention to this movie and the denial of permissions. Both sides are at fault. One - there is no point in portraying like custodians of our culture where we know there are problems at root level within the society
Two - Why should these film makers under the guise of social themes always resort to some form of Sex (Fire, Water, ...)? Are tere not enough social problems to picture in a nice way?. One proof that these movies are junk is that none of the leading artistes like to act in these films.
We should ignore both these film makers and also the "Custodians" of our culture.
RE:Why all this attention?
by on Jan 30, 2007 04:22 AM
Well said Pathy...nice and makes sense...news websites get the kicks when someone from outsides india say something good about india (indian), some indian achieves something in the west..ooorrr when a indian trys to act in a "socially processive manner" and makes a movie like this.... where are the other stoies...what are you journalist paid for...didn't they teach you to make every story interesting..
RE:Why all this attention?
by usman khawaja on Jan 30, 2007 06:59 AM
well becayse we want to see something different from idiocities klike dhhom and krish thank you
RE:RE:Why all this attention?
by abhijnan datta on Jan 30, 2007 09:19 AM
Hi, All this humbug about Water. I have seen the movie and best to say is that its no way close to the good art films made in India. Theme is vague, no strong theme, just a bit of media hype. The author of the article has done no good through her very uninteresting journalism. She infact would be good for writing script for flop hindi films but its my advice to her not to burn her fingers in the Rich indian genre of art films.
Why are you all so obsessed with this stupid oscars? Its nothing a bunch of rich arrogant people trying to encourage some movie. its not real. its fantasy. We people don't elect movies for oscars. ATleast I can understand the value of the movie. But its elected by a bunch of rich and screwed up people. Deepa Mehta did a good job although she could have picked a different subject. But unless international movies dont provoke anything, they dont seem to get into oscars and hence the desparate reason probably.
Hindu Fundamentalist: You Christians condoned racism and slavery.. Christian Fundamentalist: You manipulated your own religion and created untouchables. Muslim fundamentalist: You people are infidels.
Hindu Fundamentalist: You killed people and ruined cities for some cartoons.. Muslim fundamentalist: You did parades and protests to ban Davinci code. Christian Fundamentalist: You ruined a most celebrated artist%u2019s gallery and threatened to kill him for pictures which you think are vulgar..
Muslim fundamentalist: You burned and killed many intellectuals and scientists cuz they disagreed with church Christian Fundamentalist: You torched missionaries and innocent kids cuz they converted people.. Hindu Fundamentalist: You kill your own Muslims cuz they are not your sect..
Muslim fundamentalist: You never had a female president and you guys have more nude bars than churches.. Christian Fundamentalist: You designed the dowry custom and unborn female deaths are no secret. Hindu Fundamentalist: Your women don%u2019t even have the right to vote.
All three%u2026.
I think I am the custodian of my religion and my proud culture. I think I am the custodian of my religion and my proud culture. I think I am the custodian of my religion and my proud culture.
The pseudo secularist liberals are killing my culture and my country The pseudo secularist liberals are killing my culture and my country The pseudo secularist liberals are killing my culture and my country
My religion and my culture is the best in the world and others are crap My religion and my culture is the best in the world and others are crap My religion and my culture is the best in the world and others are crap
RE:RE:Fundamentalist brothern...
by Narendra Tade on Jan 30, 2007 02:14 AM
That was reality AK....and I am sure a lot of pseudo Hindus, Christians and Muslims are looking for your blood... hahaha...it takes all to make this world. The more ones reads the actual documents and authentic trasilations (a good source is the Asiatic Society liabraries)one would realize.
In the present world the major contribution of religion happens to be factional wars and resultant deadbodies. Marx's concept of 'Opium' turned out to be so true.
The journalist writes , The script examined how widows were sometimes turned into prostitutes%u2026
Prostitution is, of course the oldest profession, even Jesus encountered it. Moreover it is not just women, there are legions of rent boys and not only in India but probably in every country of this world. The majority of these people do choose to rent out their bodies %u2013 the reasons are another matter. Forced prostitution happens regularly and the recent expose in Andhra reveals even parents active in renting out their children. No doubt this is hideous behaviour and traumatizing for those being rented out or sold.
Vrindavan is similar in many ways to the widows phenomenon of Kashi. I lived there for many years and was to a certain extent active in helping/supporting some ashrams caring for widows via our local NGO. Sure there were some unscrupulous operators, mainly eating funds/material intended for the widows, but not once did I ever come across (or did hear of) an incident of a woman being forced into any sexual exploitation. Now I may just be na? or perhaps it was an extremely secret phenomena, but that is unlikely because such an incident or trend would be, sooner or later unearthed, and our intelligence network spanned the whole community.
Whatever reason a lady may be widowed, such as the numerous stories of being cast out by her family, is of course pitiful. Nonetheless research is highly important on sensitive issues like this. I have seen numerous books and articles written about the Vrindavan widows (overwhelmingly Bengali) and all sensationalise the topic with, it seems to me, flawed research provided by second and third parties with little or next to no personal experience of the issue. This may not be the case here, but I did meet Nandita Das, who is no doubt a fine lady, but her opinion, at that time also erred on the hearsay and more lurid gossip of the issue rather than, as I explained to her in my understanding, the scenario as I had experienced it during 14 years in Vrindavan %u2013 the girl had no experience of the issue.
Nonetheless VVN & Kashi are different places and experiences and who knows, such incidents of widows being abused may be true, or a more strenuous set of myths may have been cultivated in Kashi. I would not know that. Why not make a film on the wonderful work that is done for widows. This is far greater than any of the negative or more sensational stories that we haven%u2019t seen proved or exampled, even our journalist could not prove the existence of any of these hearsay rackets %u2013 Yes there may be an example or several, but are we investigative or not? I personally have a hard time appreciating such subject matters for films. Films generally are a waste of time and money. Movies are in the main business projects, albeit made with great technical skill and occasionally even artistically noteworthy or aesthetic. I have made several in the past and the overriding objective behind the project is not social work or seva, as business and the art of making money is the prerogative. A documentary would have been more useful and truthful, but there%u2019s no money or fame to be made there. I had to suffer Fire on a friends DVD, and it was horribly boring as Basker says below, Thankfully I don%u2019t see movies or watch TV any more. But Water (H20) is an infinitely more imporatnt subject to deal with Deepa.
RE:In an abundance of water, the fool is thirsty!
by Rajesh Bhansali on Jan 30, 2007 02:01 AM
so true. very well said and explained. thought provoking indeed!
How and why was this film selected for Oscar nominations from Inida???
If they (selectors) wanted to send some good movie about real life issues then what is better than Rang-De-Basanti. My points are given as below.
1) Rang-De-Basanti is set in today's India (not like Water which is set in 1930s). 2) It is based the real contemprary issue (like corruption and frustation due to it) impacting not just few Hindu Widows (like Water shows), and not even just widows, but whole nation. 3) It is more on national security, unlike Water . 4) It educated people on struggles of our Krantikari ancestors who suffered in the hands of cruel britishers and still kept fighting for our freedom. And gave glimpse of Indian Freedom Movement. 5) Above all, it did educate and awoke thousands of people.
Maybe all of the abvoe were the very reasons why it was not selected.
Bottom line: Selecting Water is waste. This movie does not deserve it.
RE:Oscar Nomination, SHould Have Been Rang-De-Basanti???
by usman khawaja on Jan 30, 2007 07:01 AM
rdb is flawed the only other movies were omkara and dor
RE:Oscar Nomination, SHould Have Been Rang-De-Basanti???
by mihir rajda on Jan 30, 2007 06:12 AM
jayant, pls keep urself updated bef drawing to ne conclusions. dnt put urslf in a situation wer u r focused for ur lack of knowledge. finally u shld feel embarassed about dis whl thng. i hope u knw who d prime minister n president of our country r.
RE:RE:Oscar Nomination, SHould Have Been Rang-De-Basanti???
by Jayant Chaudhary on Jan 30, 2007 09:50 PM
Mihir,
I was mis-informed... I take my words back. I was inflamed when I heard that Water has been nominated by India (misinformation) that I had to write this... Yes, I am embarassed.
However, I feel even bad that Canada nominated this movie, Canada does not have any rights to show out dirty laundry to the world....
RE:Oscar Nomination, SHould Have Been Rang-De-Basanti???
by karthik eyan on Jan 30, 2007 01:00 AM
water has been nominated not from India but from canada
When there was a lot of hype and hoopla about the movie fire, even a reluctant movie goer like me went and watched. Guess what, Shiv Sena and other organizations helped the movie achieve what it could never ever achieve on its own. It was a horribly boring movie. The theaters screening the movie made more money than they could imagine. Those involved with the movie made a fortune. All because of the free publicity. Ideally it should have sunk without a trace. Whatever Deepa Mehta does, I cannot deny this to her. She is a shrewd marketer. Hats off. Around 96-97, a Tamil movie named iruvar was screened with Aishwarya Rai making her screen debut. Even when it was made well and directed well, it sank because nobody created racket by protesting the contents. After all it was about the CM Karunanidhi and former CM Late Dr. MGR. I am sure that Water is an ultra-boring movie. But people will flock to the theatres and pay Rs 500 and waste money after all.
The Manu Smriti does recommend widows to lead a chaste lifestyle in order to attain heaven, but all such verses are mere exhortations. There is not a single injunction in the Manu Smriti which recommends which sanctions hell for widows transgressing the moral code. It was purely voluntary, and entirely for social reasons in a society which suffered from paucity of men, losing them to constant battle from invading armies.
Winning an Oscar, is no big deal, for it is known that Anti Hindu films invariably win international awards.......But imagine how many could expect an anti missionary/anti islamic/anti racist movie to follow suit?
If she wanted to educate people (which I doubt) and do some good for those widows.. she has failed in that.
If she wanted to make some news and some name for herself... she has succeeded in that.
If she really wanted to change things for society, then she should have done some real work rather than making a movie and making a name for herself.....
This is nothing but publicity trick by her. Shame on using real people's real plight to make name and fame.. Shame on you Deepa.
there are a quite a few things that i feel should be considered: 1.cinema is a work of art - different people define art in different ways - but whatever be its definition, it is NOT meant to offend anyone's sentiments, period! sadly all over the world, artists are resorting more and more to offending sentiments - Mel Gibson (his recent outbursts against one community plus the way he has depicted the Mayans in "Apocalypto"), Deepa Mehta and MF Hussain (remember his paintings of Hindu deities ?) to name just a few - that is unacceptable
RE:Rights and wrongs..
by Jayant Chaudhary on Jan 29, 2007 11:38 PM
Totally agree with that.
These people abuse "art" in the name of "art"... I challange people like Mel to make a picture on cruelity of Christians (that they inflicted in the name of Christ that is contradictory to his teachings) and MF to paint his mother in nude.... Now that will be art...
