I have full faith in MSD. I would have thrown in the towel in similar situation. But to battle on hats off to a great guy-in my view the bashing is unnecessary.
Re: When the going gets rough the tough get going
by ASHISH KUMAR on Oct 12, 2011 01:12 PM
Few of recent Dhoni credential as a captain: 1)shameful exit in 1st round of T20 wcup 2009 & 2010 after loosing all matches 2)shameful 1st round exit in ICC cup 2009 after loosing all matches 3)shameful 2-4 loss against Aus B team at home soil 2009 4)Loss 2-4 against same Aus in ODI series last time in 2007 5) shameful defeat in Asia cup final 2009 6) Shameful defeat in Triangular series in Bangladesh final. 7)Shameful defeat in 3rd ODI against SA when sachin/sehwag rested 8)Shameful inning defeat in 1st test match against SA in India when dravid/laxman not played due to injury. 9)Loss by an inning against SLK & SA in 1st test of series overseas 10)Loss against last SA ODI series 2-3. ( Ideal score would been 0-5 but luck favoured in two matches). 11) White wash against England in 2011 loosing test series 0-4, T-20 series 0-1 & ODI series 0-3. 12) CSK at bottom of CLT-20 2011 by loosing 3 out of 4 matches
Re: Re: When the going gets rough the tough get going
by joydip bhattacharya on Oct 12, 2011 05:36 PM
One Worldcup in 28 years is more then all these shameful Losses....He is a Wonderful Captain ......and oen of the best ODI Batsman
Re: Re: Re: When the going gets rough the tough get going
by Jiju on Oct 12, 2011 05:48 PM
Bhattacharya, so r u also one of the many people who believe that matches/tournaments can be won single handedly.....?
Re: When the going gets rough the tough get going
by ASHISH KUMAR on Oct 12, 2011 01:12 PM
Few of recent Dhoni credential as a captain: 1)shameful exit in 1st round of T20 wcup 2009 & 2010 after loosing all matches 2)shameful 1st round exit in ICC cup 2009 after loosing all matches 3)shameful 2-4 loss against Aus B team at home soil 2009 4)Loss 2-4 against same Aus in ODI series last time in 2007 5) shameful defeat in Asia cup final 2009 6) Shameful defeat in Triangular series in Bangladesh final. 7)Shameful defeat in 3rd ODI against SA when sachin/sehwag rested 8)Shameful inning defeat in 1st test match against SA in India when dravid/laxman not played due to injury. 9)Loss by an inning against SLK & SA in 1st test of series overseas 10)Loss against last SA ODI series 2-3. ( Ideal score would been 0-5 but luck favoured in two matches). 11) White wash against England in 2011 loosing test series 0-4, T-20 series 0-1 & ODI series 0-3. 12) CSK at bottom of CLT-20 2011 by loosing 3 out of 4 matches
Re: Re: When the going gets rough the tough get going
by ASHISH KUMAR on Oct 12, 2011 01:13 PM
Dhoni as a player 1)Less than 100 strike rate in T20. Responsible for all losses in 2nd T20 wcup as couldn’t strike the ball at crucial moment in all 3 matches. 2)Less than 40 avg in Test with No match winning /saving inning in test in entire career. No overseas hundred (outside subcontinent) in test match against quality attack. Overseas test avg is less than 30. 3)Inflated ODI avg in ODI due to no. of not out innings & manipulated batting position taking advantage of captaincy. Played very few match winning inning that also always on flat Indian wicket & against B grade bowling. 4) Pathetic wicketkeeping. Dropped catches in almost all matches. 5)Master in politics as introduced 100% regionalism in team by keeping only NI in team just because they are his friends.
Re: Re: Re: When the going gets rough the tough get going
by Aravind Raman on Oct 13, 2011 10:33 AM
Good work Ashish! Would be a sobering moment for any die hard Dhoni fan once he reads these figures!
Re: Re: Re: Re: When the going gets rough the tough get going
by Jiju on Oct 13, 2011 10:52 AM
Aravind, die hard fans are not ready to accept the truth. They feel it is because of Dhoni that India is winning and it is because of the remaining 10 that India is losing :) One gentleman above told that 1 world cup win is better than all these losses. Of course I agree regarding the WC triumph but is it the quality of a top ranked team to perform badly in other series/matches?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: When the going gets rough the tough get goin
by siddharth pathak on Oct 13, 2011 11:00 AM
i would like to add one more...i believe one single example is enough to prove dhoni's uselessness...i would like to add one more...Dhoni's best ever batting show of 7 runs from 22 deliveries in one of the T-20 games...it was because of his batting that batsman like Bravo who batted after Dhoni, inspite of hitting 3 or 4 sixes and scoring at a strike-rate of almost 200 could not take CSK to victory...Bravo remained not-out in the end and ran out of overs...just think of it Dhoni scores 7 in 22 deliveries ....wonder what excuse he made that day !!!
While it is a fact that India didn't field its best 11 during the england tour, MSD also to be blamed for the way the reserve bowlers were picked and played (for that matter not played). The success of Saurav and early days of MSD was largely attibuted to the way they selected and handled the team. In the recent past MSD had shown lack of vision in this area leading to our defeats in so many matches. Also his field placement for some crucial bowlers like Mishra left a lot to be wondered. I guess MSD is mentally tired. He needs a break. Give him that. Let him come back after 6 months.
Re: MSD also a factor in India's failures
by Varun on Oct 10, 2011 09:54 AM
Dhoni being jaded is one factor for sure. It is visible in CLT20. Same team with a jaded captain and result is defeat. Hope some fools learn the importance of leadership. Who is this reserve bowler we did not use who could have won us everything ? Buddy other than zaheer, nobody else has got that exposure and they have been bowling in dead indian pitches. If it is aaron, then aaron has accuracy problem as well as questionable fitness. Pl read up.
Re: Re: MSD also a factor in India's failures
by ASHISH KUMAR on Oct 12, 2011 01:15 PM
Dhoni test average outside In WI 2006, 24 In SA 2006, 26 In AUS 2007, 17.62 In SLK 2009 17.5 In SA 2011, 35.8 In WI 2011- 19.5 (last series) ( score of 0,16,2, 5 & 74(only one good inning when WI was operating with bowlers like bishoo/chandrapaul & front line bowler rampaul/shammi etc was resting due to injury). In Eng 2011- 29 (last series)
Also dhoni after playing 27 T-20 intl has not scored a single fifty, no match winning inning, no MOM & pathetic strike rate of 105 (one of the lowest for any batsman in T-20 at his batting position) In ODI overseas also he is a big failure as batsman who never perform when require due to limited batting ability & has hardly won any important ODI outside india with his batting. He is a flop wicketkeeper also in last 3 series where dropped many catches.
Re: Re: Re: MSD also a factor in India's failures
by ASHISH KUMAR on Oct 12, 2011 01:16 PM
Varun is right. Proved again that dhoni is the worst leader. regarding player everyone knew- he is worst
Re: Re: Re: MSD also a factor in India's failures
by ASHISH KUMAR on Oct 12, 2011 01:16 PM
Varun is right. Proved again that dhoni is the worst leader. regarding player everyone knew- he is worst
Re: Re: Re: MSD also a factor in India's failures
by siddharth pathak on Oct 13, 2011 11:02 AM
excellent analysis, ashish...i would like to add one more...i believe one single example is enough to prove dhoni's uselessness...i would like to add one more...Dhoni's best ever batting show of 7 runs from 22 deliveries in one of the T-20 games...it was because of his batting that batsman like Bravo who batted after Dhoni, inspite of hitting 3 or 4 sixes and scoring at a strike-rate of almost 200 could not take CSK to victory...Bravo remained not-out in the end and ran out of overs...just think of it Dhoni scores 7 in 22 deliveries ....wonder what excuse he made that day !!!
Re: MSD also a factor in India's failures
by siddharth pathak on Oct 13, 2011 11:04 AM
i do not agree with the last part....dhoni should go and never RETRUN...NOT AFTER 6 MONTHS ...NOT AFTER 6 YEARS...LET HIM PROVE HIMSELF FIRST...NEVER COME BACK
MOST OF TEST MATCHES AND INTERNATIONAL ODI PLAYED IN THE INDIAN GROUND AS INDIAN GROUND ARE DEAD PITCH THAT IS WHY DHONI WON THE MATCHES AND REACHED NO 1 SPOT .AS USUAL THE OVERSEAS PITCH INDIA HAS ALWAYS LOSE THE MATCH AND ONLY S.GANGULY IS WON IN THE OVERSEAS GROUND HE IS ONE OF THE BEST CAPTAIN FOR INDIA NOT DHONI.MOST OF MATCH PALYED BY DHONI IN THE INDIAN GROUND THAT IS WHY HE IS WINNING
We played in England, we lost 4-0. We played in SA and lost 3-2. What did Dhoni do? Nothing. because he could do nothing. We do not perform well in foreign pitches and we as usual failed again. What did Dhoni do to improve the team to play well abroad, nothing. Where is his foresight and captaincy?
In last 4 years we have played more matches at home (batsmen friendly tracks) than swing and pace. So it is not a surprise that we raised to #1 status.
India has done well because of the fact that Australia failed to achieve the top standards they had been possessing in the past, nothing that Dhoni did, or can do about it! Except for Ganguly, all other captains never went for the kill. India has always been more conservative on their test playing strategies – playing less against quality teams, playing at home, play safe to draw wherever possible.
Team India's idea is like saying "Let everyone fight and diminish their resources and we will come on top because of their losses". I am not at all envious of our team's success or Dhoni's success or anything. From world champions to scraping to win in West Indies and finally losing all matches in just a gap of 4 months is not the way to play cricket. If Dhoni is to be credited for the wins till date, please credit him for this drubbing also :)
It is high time the fans of Sachin and Dhoni understand that cricket is 99.5% team work and 0.5% one man show.
Re: MSD
by Varun on Oct 10, 2011 09:49 AM
As for the last part, i couldnt agree more. It is not bcz of a sachin or dhoni alone, but a good collection of players coming under a good captain. But the rest of the analysis is amateur at best. A captains influence is not restricted to a performance on the field and is not easily tangible. Of coz we rate captains by victory which is a wrong criteria. As for the foresight issue, we are in India buddy. Indian captains have to make do with what they are given after the zonal masters make their decisions. As for comparison between ganguly and dhoni, i would wait till dhonis career is near its end. Otherwise it is foolish at best to compare. And i do believe that Dhoni is the ideal person for the captaincy job and a good team is needed with stress on bowling. Once india stops being batsmen centric, we will win more and more outside.
Re: Re: MSD
by Jiju on Oct 10, 2011 04:42 PM
Varun, u may feel it is amateur for your own reasons. I am not much bothered to know the reasons :) I only mean to say, dont give credit to 1 Sachin or 1 Dhoni or 1 XYZ player.... If u guys give credit to Dhoni for wins, please blame him for losses. Same applies to Sachin or any XYZ. As long as the team is winning, each player becomes blaster, captain cool, wall, dada, etc. When the team loses, it is only blame that pitch was not good, crowd noise (2008 vs SL), etc.
When there is no foresight, what is the team going to do? And it is an open secret that we got max series to play in home soil, so we stayed #1 for a long time. I am not comparing Dhoni with Ganguly. Forget Dhoni, even if the greatest cricket player came as a captain it will be hard for us to win abroad. I said Ganguly was the only captain who went for the kill. Failing to chase 147 in 50 overs in a test is not commendable, that too against West Indies who are in #8....! Also, if standards of Aussie cricket were like earlier days, there would be a quarter final drubbing for India.....! I never question the captaincy of Dhoni. I know that we dont have an option as of now. Just as u say, I am also telling that this is India. Nothing can be done except go with the flow :(. My emphasis is same, Sachin or Dhoni or Dravid cannot change the way things are progressing. They can only go with the flow. There is nothing to credit or blame an individual for that. If you think that is amateur, thanks for ur opinion....!
Re: Re: Re: MSD
by ASHISH KUMAR on Oct 12, 2011 01:23 PM
Jiju well said. Problem with dhoni fans- they are blind & don't think logically. I never gave any captaincy credit for team win & thats why don't blame also dhoni captaincy for loss. But those blind fans who gave all unnnessary credit for team win at home to dhoni captaincy- should bash him also for team loss. Why to maintain double standrad. It is simply hypocricy. Fact is I always doubted dhoni as a player. On merit dhoni will never find a place in test & t-20 international in any team. Just check his records. But he is allowed to play for 7 yrs just due to zonal politics. Also dhoni is the captain who introduced maximum zonal politics in team & thats why his friend like raina,nehra, chawla, RP singh, bhajji, praveen type players are allowed to play even after many failures.
Re: Re: Re: Re: MSD
by Jiju on Oct 12, 2011 06:01 PM
Thanks Ashish..... No doubts that Dhoni is a substandard batsman. These people claim that he comes 4-5 down and hence cannot score runs..... Did we ask him to come so low? It is just an excuse..... He is in the team because of luck, thats all..... To be a top order batsman, u need guts. By the time Dhoni comes to bat, bowlers & fielders will be tired. So, nothing great in scoring runs. And his reasons for defeat are pathetic! Crowd noise (SL-2008), pitch/batsmen/bowlers problems (usual) and still people claim him to be one of the best captains..... :) Winning world cup, then scraping for a win in West Indies and losing like in England fashion is not by any standards a great captaincy....! I mean, couldnt we chase 147 from 50 overs in WI against #8 side? Couldnt we manage a draw in the 4 test matches in England? When the whole team performs, any XYZ can become a good captain.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MSD
by Sarada Krishnamoorthy on Oct 14, 2011 01:05 PM
Well India won the World Cup mainly because India never played outside India in the WC. Imagine if the WC was outside of the sub continent then i guess the exit was very eminent and Dhoni would have been scrapped off his captaincy.
Re: Re: Re: MSD
by ASHISH KUMAR on Oct 12, 2011 01:24 PM
Jiju well said. Problem with dhoni fans- they are blind & don't think logically. I never gave any captaincy credit for team win & thats why don't blame also dhoni captaincy for loss. But those blind fans who gave all unnnessary credit for team win at home to dhoni captaincy- should bash him also for team loss. Why to maintain double standrad. It is simply hypocricy. Fact is I always doubted dhoni as a player. On merit dhoni will never find a place in test & t-20 international in any team. Just check his records. But he is allowed to play for 7 yrs just due to zonal politics. Also dhoni is the captain who introduced maximum zonal politics in team & thats why his friend like raina,nehra, chawla, RP singh, bhajji, praveen type players are allowed to play even after many failures.
Re: Re: Re: MSD
by siddharth pathak on Oct 13, 2011 11:11 AM
i would like to add one more...i believe one single example is enough to prove dhoni's uselessness...i would like to add one more...Dhoni's best ever batting show of 7 runs from 22 deliveries in one of the T-20 games...it was because of his batting that batsman like Bravo who batted after Dhoni, inspite of hitting 3 or 4 sixes and scoring at a strike-rate of almost 200 could not take CSK to victory...Bravo remained not-out in the end and ran out of overs...just think of it Dhoni scores 7 in 22 deliveries ....wonder what excuse he made that day !!!
Re: If tomarrow
by sakthi on Oct 08, 2011 03:49 PM
If these guys retire then Im sure we will defend our world championship in next WC... But these guys will not they will play till they were shown the doors..
Re: Re: If tomarrow
by ASHISH KUMAR on Oct 12, 2011 01:27 PM
A player with very limited abilities like Dhoni is not even capable of an individual performance which requires skills such as technique, patience and perseverance; so as to bail out the team from a tricky situation. As a captain, Dhoni's success was based on the good form of a bunch of very talented and enormously experienced cricketers. Once we take them out of equation......as they say: "The King is Naked...!!!"
Re: If tomarrow
by Varun on Oct 10, 2011 09:41 AM
A good team will be built with new players. It will take 12 months or more but a new bunch of players will make it big. Only fools like you remain the past more bcz of you are a coward.
Re: Re: If tomarrow
by Jiju on Oct 10, 2011 07:38 PM
I agree to what Kapil Dev says, Dravid/Sachin/Laxman should be played on rotation basis. As long as the youngsters fail to keep their fitness levels & consistency, u cannot expect consistent victories. U will be seeing new faces only..... Regarding bowlers, lesser said the better :(
Re: Re: If tomarrow
by ASHISH KUMAR on Oct 12, 2011 01:29 PM
Yes no sachin India lost ODI series in SA India lost ODI series in england India lost in 1st round of T-20 wcup in 2009 & 2010. Dhoni always pees in pant without sachin
