Re: ...not by birth
by Ravindra Joshi on Oct 26, 2017 05:01 PM
When Dalits can become priests, why they need reservation. They are as good as upper caste.
Re: ...not by birth
by piri on Oct 26, 2017 09:24 AM
Shankara and Parashurama and what they said and did have nothing at all to do with the egalitarianism that marks Kerala out today among Indian states !
In fact, Shankaras mysticism is quite antithetical to the idea of egalitarianism itself !
Shree Narayana Guru and Chattambiswamikal have much more to do with Kerala being so hugely ahead of the rest of India than Shankara !
And above all, it is the spirit of revolution and questioning of all privileges of birth that the Communist party cultivated in Keralites from the 1930s that has resulted in Kerala slowly becoming as egalitarian as it is today.
Re: Re: ...not by birth
by Vishvaksenah on Oct 26, 2017 10:10 AM
An appropriate reply to the observations made by 'piri' has been made earkier by some other person. Please google - Dalit Priests Are A Welcome Development
Re: Re: Re: Re: ...not by birth
by Vishvaksenah on Oct 26, 2017 11:28 AM
Sri Aravindan Neelakandan has written a very informative essay on this topic and I just didn't want to copy it and paste it here.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...not by birth
by P S SHAH on Nov 01, 2017 10:31 PM
Vishvaksenah, why don't you take lesson in long and useless comments from this useless, jobless komaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaali who is very well known on Rediff for his repeated copy pastes all the time as it is free of cost at Rediff.
Re: ...not by birth
by piri on Oct 26, 2017 09:24 AM | Hide message
Shankara and Parashurama and what they said and did have nothing at all to do with the egalitarianism that marks Kerala out today among Indian states !
In fact, Shankaras mysticism is quite antithetical to the idea of egalitarianism itself !
Shree Narayana Guru and Chattambiswamikal have much more to do with Kerala being so hugely ahead of the rest of India than Shankara !
And above all, it is the spirit of revolution and questioning of all privileges of birth that the Communist party cultivated in Keralites from the 1930s that has resulted in Kerala slowly becoming as egalitarian as it is today.
Gita says that the caste is due to qualities and profession (Guna Karma Vibhagasah). Qualities were always respected. Rama and Krishna were non-Brahmins. The Brahmin priests wash the statues of Rama and Krishna and swallow it as sacred water. In Bhagavatam it is written that Bhuri Sravasa, who is a pot maker was made Brahma in the sacrifice. Ravana was a Brahmin but was condemned.
Every human being is ‘Sudra’ by birth and can become Brahmin by practicing the true meaning of Vedas (Janmana Jaayate). Brahmana means he who knows Brahman. Brahman also means Veda in Sanskrit. Every caste contains good people as well as bad people. Sabari and Kannappa belong to the family of untouchables. No body is untouchable by birth. In Veda only four castes were mentioned. How this fifth caste came into existence? All the bad people in the four castes were expelled from the village just like a bad student is expelled from the school. Thus untouchability is due to the qualities and deeds but not by birth. Brahmins are worshipping the photos of Sabari and Kannappa in their prayer rooms.
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Re: THE CONCEPT PUBLISHED HERE IS HALF
by anil antony on Oct 26, 2017 08:21 AM
The concept of caste system should be understood with cool and balanced mind without emotions. Krishna talked about caste system in Gita stating that the caste is based on qualities and actions (Gunakarma vibhagashah). More than 100 elements are discovered in science and these elements were classified in periods and groups in the periodic table. There is nothing like higher or lower group in this classification. Based on the properties, the elements are classified. Similarly, people preaching spiritual knowledge were called Brahmins, people having courage and physical strength for protection and administration were called Kshatriyas, people responsible for the business etc were called Vaishyas and people occupying the positions of public service were called Shudras. There is no higher and lower levels based on the birth. Ravana was a Brahmin but was condemned as demon because of his sinful actions. Rama was Kshatriya but was worshiped by Brahmins also for His good actions.
Vidura was shudra but was respected for his knowledge. Bhurishravah belonged to the backward caste of pot makers, but was given the chair of president-ship in a sacrifice by the Brahmin priests (Refer Bhagavatam). Did these examples show lower and higher castes by birth? There was never the concept of lower and higher levels in the caste system. The lower and higher concept existed only by bad and good. Bad is the lower level and good is the higher level. A bad person is always condemned irrespective of
Re: Re: THE CONCEPT PUBLISHED HERE IS HALF
by bakchod on Oct 26, 2017 08:36 AM
Well said. Only much later, after corruption of the ideals began, did caste become a privilege of birth. That's when deterioration and discrimination started, around or just before the times of the Buddha and Mahavira. They tried and succeeded to a big extent in reforming but after 500-1000 years after their time, it again started deteriorating. That's when Islam and Christianity came and forcefully tried to end the discrimination. Sikhism also, but without the coersion. Hopefully caste based discrimination and superiority will be ended in the age of science. Caste itself is not a problem like you have explained. The discrimination and high-low classification is the problem. This can be eliminated by scientific approach.
Re: rediff yr moderators are biased
by palanki narayana on Oct 26, 2017 11:13 AM | Hide message
I extend my sympathy to you, being a fellow sufferer. My earlier response to your submission is deleted.
and the minor Maharaja Chittira tirunal Bala Ramavarma declared the temples of Travancore open to other caste groups in 1936 !!
It would appear from this oft repeated statement that the erstwhile royals of Travancore were the ones who took the initiative for allowing such entry !!
In fact, those vermin (the Rajas and Ranis of Travancore) held on to the very last in trying to maintain status quo in terms of the traditionally very exploitative social hierarchies and succumbed only when they were convinced that they might be violently booted out of their strangleholds of wealth, prestige and power if they didnt !
A little over a decade after the temple entry declaration, in 1947, when the British drafted Instrument of Accession with its 3 choices (amalgamation into the Indian union, amalgamation into Pakistan and option to remain as an independent country) was sent to each of the more than 500 princely states, this piece of filth (Maharaja Chittira tirunal Bala Ramavarma) actually signed on the draft opting for Travancore to remain as an independent country !
He schemed with his dastardly divan, ^Sir^ C P Ramasamy Iyer, to continue to live on as Raja in his opulent palace and rule the people of Travancore in the very despotic ways bequeathed to him by his forebears!
In fact, Ramasamy Iyer was already in touch with the CIA seeking help for ensuring that Travancore remained an independent country under him and his puppet, Chittira tirunal.
Re: The Regent Maharani
by piri on Oct 26, 2017 02:44 AM
However, leaders of the then Communist party of India, led by Sreekantan Nair, marched at the head of a procession of thousands of people to the palace of this gluttonous tyrant and sent him and his divan a dire warning - sign on the Instrument acceding to the Indian union (which was already being declared as a democratic republic) - or face the violent wrath of common Malayalis !
Ramasamy Iyer, even more ambitious than the vermin Raja himself to live in regal splendour at the expense of commoners, sent the royal army (armed with machine guns mounted on boats) to confront the communists in the backwaters of Alleppey and massacred hundreds of cadres who had nothing but spears to fight with. This massacre, famous in Kerala history as the Punnapra Vayalar samaram, gave the communist movement a big boost in Kerala and cemented its place in the politics of the state.
2 days after the Punnapra revolt ended, communist cadre attacked Ramasamy Iyer at night in Trivandrum when he was enjoying one of the numerous opulences of royalty - a captive musical performance for him by a full strength orchestra in one of the palaces. But the sword attack fell only on his arm and he ran away injured into the darkness and fled the same night for his home town of Madras.
The very next day, the puppet Raja, realising that his divan had fled, hurriedly signed on the Instrument of Accession to the Indian union in sheer fright, saving Sardar Vallabhai Patel the trouble of forcing the state to accede
Next they will Open a Dalit Mutt and The Chief will be Dr. Ambedkar's Lineage, but he will claim that he is a Brahmin - Since his Karmas belong to that of The Real Brahmins - Later they will become Priests, Take over All Temples & Mutts Across The Length & Breadth of India !!
After that they will claim we need Brahmin W0men as well.
Much admiration for you, Shri Sudhi Kumar ji. Your devotion is truly admirable and my humble namaskar to you. Though I am supposedly a brahmin by birth, I fully agree with you when you say that one becomes a brahmin only by karma and acquiring brahma jnanam. Indian epics are full of stories where people from very humble backgrounds became the greatest rishis. My respect to you and hope you keep up and become an inspiration for hundreds of others. Today's so called brahmins have completely given up pursuit of brahma jnanam and are more intent on becoming engineers, doctors, MBAs, etc. So I hardly call them brahmins because they have abandoned spiritual pursuits. You truly deserve to be called a brahmin and it is only people like you who will preserve the ancient traditions of hinduism.
