I don't think there is any meaningful way to compare rape rates among countries to to vastly varying reporting rates. 2MM rapes per year in the US? That's a rate higher than South Africa, generally considered the world leader in this crime. But the true weakness of this, and other "analyses" of the problem is the false assumption that rape is a sexual act. It is the act of controlling another person done by a person who otherwise has no control. Is is a raw exercise of power. The situation at issue is a perfect example; slum residents exercising control over a middle class couple. There appears also be an element of envy here. I do agree that development does lead to less control over one's life and the relation posited may be valid, though not for the precise stated reasons. It is arguable that objectification of women can lend to one's devaluing, dehumanizing them and viewing them as a proper subject to control. But what about the fact that many, if not most rapists know their victims? It is extraordinarily difficult to dehumanize a person you know. Why did the Chinese order in rural troops to put down an urban rebellion? It was a said that the best way to be safe from the killer Ted Bundy was to have him know you personally. As I suggested, this is a complex issue questionably tractable.
As an Indian woman who has been at the receiving end of the predatory behavior of the Indian males, let me summarize for you the difference between our society and the Western society: In the West when such an incident is reported, the people just unite to condemn the act and seek justice without engaging in intellectual masturbation like you have done here. No one ever says that such incidents happen in India and Africa on a regular basis by way of an explanation. I have only seen such ridiculous impotent responses from the Indian males. I am much happier and safer in the Western society and embrace the Western values of personal freedom, accountability and individualism. The Western society is better compared to the Indian society today. As a society we need to admit that we have a long path to being civilized, because we are not today. Once we face the truth only then can we progress to a better future. For once I saw wide spread support across genders and of course you had to write this ridiculous piece of scholarly drivel. I am sure that you realize that this incident was not an isolated one but that there is an epidemic of rapes, gang rapes, of women even children in India. Do some research and you will find the data you need.
Re: Well Written - Perhaps But Ridiculous - Stop Blaming The West
by Dhananjay Kumar on Dec 31, 2012 06:41 PM
Question: Are you indian modern women ready to accept and follow other things too what western women do? E.g. prenupital agreement, paying allowance to husband, marrying an unemployed men or somebody who is earning less than you, dress according to occasion (I have seen so called US return women dressing up in mini skirts and shorts while attending pooja that too in somebody else place). Countless things.....ladies queue, ladies seat, ladies quotu....why don't you first renounce and refuse to accept these things?
I will tell you what Indian "females" do......they demand and claim equality when its comes to take the easy path and opportunity. Ask them to take tough road or face something tough, they will ask to be spared coz they are women....funny but truth....Again I am not generalizing....but it is a truth...
Re: Re: Well Written - Perhaps But Ridiculous - Stop Blaming The
by Chicks Fly on Jan 01, 2013 10:26 AM
Any woman will take up the freedom and responsibility that the West has to offer. I have lived in the West for over 20 years now. Happier much happier to write a prenup that be burned for more dowry, happy to marry someone earning less than me for love than to marry someone my father choses, happier to work for a living honestly than be considered for quota, ... you name it. I don't own a short skirt never did never felt the need to. You don't seem to know women at all.
Re: Well Written - Perhaps But Ridiculous - Stop Blaming The West
by gsm on Dec 31, 2012 07:44 PM
Spot on. But I tell you just one thing. Western males or society is not only a collection of angels also.
The reason west has a far better and social freedom and values is because west has ensured Rule of Law. Rule of Law over the years has ensured society to progress in all domains of life,although new kind of problems,that naturally emerge, have also appeared.But overall,Life is safer, individual freedom and choice and overall quality of life is way ahead than in India.
Re: Well Written - Perhaps But Ridiculous - Stop Blaming The West
by rama rao on Jan 01, 2013 01:32 AM
70% of the kids currently born in US now are out of wed lock & raised by single mother. Guys after their urges are done, will leave the their partners & try to find the next best thing. Now the mother has to raise the children (become father & mother) with paltry child support, take up couple of jobs & then search for a new partner. It's fun until they are in their 20's. After that they live in tension wishing they had a stable partner. I see that my mother, my sister & my grand mother living a lot happier than these US women whom we think are equal to men. Do we really want to become like them?
Re: Re: Well Written - Perhaps But Ridiculous - Stop Blaming The
by Chicks Fly on Jan 01, 2013 10:21 AM
Wed-lock is over rated. As a society we are fixated on enforcing a structure. I recently spent a year in India living in a Tony neighborhood in Mumbai. The level of dysfunction that exist among Indian marriages are ridiculous. In the West if a marriage does not work people walk away - male or female. In India we have child molestation, rapes, affairs among married people, etc etc. Kids in the West are more grounded because they are raised by happier people. Sure among certain segments of Western societies there are absent fathers, however this is by no means the norm. The Western men and women invest immensely into their relationships not because they have to but because they want to. If it does not work out, they walk away. Anyway what does that have to do with the epidemic of child molestation and rapes in India?
Re: Well Written - Perhaps But Ridiculous - Stop Blaming The West
by Sankrant Sanu on Jan 01, 2013 12:03 AM
Your understanding of Western society is quite limited. If protests and condemnation and seeking justice is the measure of civilization, then the Indian condemnation has certainly outweighed any I have seen in the West.
On the other hand, Western society is very good at intellectual analysis of problems (what you are calling intellectual masturbation) rather than just knee-jerk emotional responses. There is a good deal of study on the rape culture in the United States and its underlying causes.
It is much easier to make broad-brush vacuous statements ("Western society is better") than to actually look at underlying causes in a nuanced way. Protests have their place but emotional reactions without understanding will not help us create better solutions.
Re: Re: Well Written - Perhaps But Ridiculous - Stop Blaming The
by Chicks Fly on Jan 05, 2013 05:34 PM
Sankrant ji, Yes I must confess that I am not educated in the Liberal Arts. However I am a graduate of the IIT system and hold an MBA from Chicago. I have spent the first 20 years of my life in India and the remaining 20 in the USA. While I may not have the scholarly knowledge that you might possess, the proof is in the pudding. I have always felt more safe and valued in a Western setting than in the Indian setting. Pray continue to play your violin while Rome burns around you. I prefer persons of action ...
People are posting messages blaming on North Indian Males, South Indians, Izlamic, Vicotrian Rules, and so on. It is really unwanted and of no use.
We can't change the History and Geography also. We have to move ahead with what we currently are.
I guess people can put their suggestions like -1. Marriage age should be lowered, 16 for both. 2. Prostitution should be legalised. 3. Strict and Harsh punishments for rapists. 4. Most important - stop the corruption. It is root cause of all ills.
"And do we really want to give the corrupt state apparatus more power over its citizens?" Thats exactly the serious problem which the emotionally hyper populace and teh media choose to overlook. And thats really dangerous.
Prostituition should be legalised. But is a source of big hafta money for the police. After raising the marriageable age prostituition should have been legalised. We are paying for our short sighted policies.
Re: Rapes and economic growth
by AK on Dec 31, 2012 05:11 PM
I) Legalising it in a highly unequal and se*ually desperate society like ours will lead to unimaginable increase in trafficking. Even an ultra liberal country like Germany waited till 21st century to legalise it.
I) The problem with us is we keep looking at the US as the model. US, however powerful they may be, is a fundamentally wrong model. One should try to follow the European model, which ensured (atleast so far) a largely equal, homogenous society. Any society which has gross inequality in terms of education and health will harbour violence. That’s why, US, though has overall high wealth, has high crime rate for a developed country. And its extreme case is what we are seeing in India, which blindly follows the US model which ensures the unequal distribution of wealth and education. The problem with such development is one ends up with a country made of “clusters” rather than one unit. More the heterogeneity more the problems.
The "only in India does this happen" pontificating TOI leads the pack when it commes to overtly sexual imagery and visual titillation throughout its pages. True to form, it has been the loudest in screaming about the latest incident. Jaganniwas Iyer
Re: Re: That's a fact!
by Jaganniwas Iyer on Dec 31, 2012 05:30 PM
While it would be unfair to single out any particular community for blame, I agree that Bollywood has played no small part in the sexplotation and commoditification of Indian women. The biggest muck is Mahesh Bhatt, with the latest sultan of filth, one Honey Singh joining the wolf pack. However, there were enlightened Punjabi actors like the late Balraj Sahni, whose positive contribution shouldn't be overlooked. Jaganniwas Iyer
Inequality of women-be inside home only-It is Indian culture
Dont Talk of sxx/sxx education-it is dirty thing-It is Indian culture to think sxx as some dirxty thing, shhhh
Dancing/singing-it is for cheap girls-says Indian culture
Fact is All of this nonsense is Islamic/Victorian practices that Indians incorporated after about 1200 AD
Original Indian Dharmic culture has very open broad minded views about sxxuality and thus creates less sxxually frustrated societies
But who will tell those idiots in Hryana that many practices and values of what you claim as INDIAN Culture are ACTUALLY Islamic and Victorian dark age practices from which Indians need to evolve.
Re: Re: Do they know what is Indian culture?
by Dhananjay Kumar on Dec 31, 2012 05:04 PM
Some of the worst and brutal rapes have happened in South India. In fact, Mallu and tml are one of most sx hungry men in whole of India. Only thing is that south india rates gets no coverage, thanks to them only watching local media.
Re: Re: Re: Do they know what is Indian culture?
by AJITH BHATT on Dec 31, 2012 05:19 PM
do not talk non-sense south india is far far bettter and educated than the north..that is why all the singhs,sharmas and tiwaris are settling down in south
Re: Re: Re: Do they know what is Indian culture?
by Alok kumar on Dec 31, 2012 06:03 PM
really north indians are JUST ANIMAL TYPE with no culture and they will never improve.they don't have any respect for law and order.
Re: Do they know what is Indian culture?
by Dhananjay Kumar on Dec 31, 2012 05:02 PM
if that is the case then why so many western countries has alarming high number of rapes, huh? 20% of US women population has experienced rape!!!! So much for the open and liberal minded. You will not understand this. Why the rape incidents increased in last 10-15 years in India? Because of the liberalization and modernization of society.
