I have noticed that many sore losers from BJP always try to bring congress/sonia/mms factor into everything. They criticize everything even if it is for the good of the nation. Please don't be angry at congress, they are in power for the next 4-5 years at least. It's not good for your health if you remain frustrated 24x7 for such a long time. Let go! Facts: India is progressing well. India is growing faster economically than anytime in its history. Hinduism is not going to be eliminated. Don't lose sleep over it. Letting underprivileged people getting a chance will not harm you. In the end we all will benefit. Stop blaming everything on Congress and Sonia.
Re: why do all discussions turn political?
by Devdutt Sen on Sep 01, 2009 03:22 AM
i agree to most of what u say, but there should be a distinction between underpreviledged-worthy and underpreviledged-unworthy,, this distinction is required if we dont want to fill the decision making positions in the country with unworthy people
Re: Re: why do all discussions turn political?
by Mulayam Singh on Sep 01, 2009 07:04 AM
Discussions turn political because we dont find any practical solution to any problem.And when we do it is not worth the solution, it creates another problem.We donot have any conviction and the will to do anything,and that weakness turns us towards political inclination.
Re: why do all discussions turn political?
by Devdutt Sen on Sep 01, 2009 03:30 AM
To give the underpreviledged and the country equal chances to survive, a system should be evolved to filter out the most intelligent and worthy boys and girls from the lower strata of the society at an age of say 8 to 10, then provide secial coachin to them with food and education free. Thereafter there should be no more reservations
Re: Re: why do all discussions turn political?
by Ary Doriz on Sep 01, 2009 03:43 AM
All that requires tremendous manpower and money. Hope you read the estimate of Kapil Sibal: 1,50,000 crore. It is easier said than done.
No teacher/doctor wants to go to rural areas. One primary school has one teacher and five classes. It is anybody's guess what students will learn. Students come to school just beacuse they will get mid-day meals. Do you think people in govt. have not had such ideas? There is no shortfall of ideas, the problem is in money and manpower, especially in rural areas.
Govt. doctor interns were asked to serve in rural areas for one year because of the subsidy they receive in Govt. medical colleges but the next thing was strike...
Re: Re: Re: why do all discussions turn political?
by B Mohan on Sep 01, 2009 08:53 AM
Money shortage, bcz money goes to Switz bank. Manpower shortage in India is a big joke of the century. please dont argue for the sake of arguement.
Re: Re: Re: why do all discussions turn political?
by Mulayam Singh on Sep 01, 2009 06:51 AM
Govt opens medical colleges and hospitals in cities,if it opens medical colleges and hos[pitals in villages and rural areas naturally doctors will go to rural areas.So the fact that doctors donot go to rural areas is completely wrong.rural situation is created by the Govt itself which opens every facility in urban areas.
Re: Re: Re: Re: why do all discussions turn political?
by Mulayam Singh on Sep 01, 2009 06:57 AM
So Mr Ari Doriz in case of u falling sick will U go to the rural hospital for treatment even if a superspecialist is posted.No, u will not u will be the first one to run back to city to ur papa and go to a city hospital.So mr reply what u will do.Indians have a dual mentality,they just do talking and no thinking and U are one of them dude.
Re: Now SC/ST students dont even have to go to Exam Centers
by Ary Doriz on Sep 01, 2009 02:50 AM
Thn, they will have to continue watching gilli/danda.
The SC/STs might have lower cut-offs but once they enter edu. inst., the passing marks for everyone is the same, irrespective of caste.
It is not to say that non-SC/STs do not bunk classes and watch gilli/danda
Re: Re: Now SC/ST students dont even have to go to Exam Centers
by such jano on Sep 01, 2009 03:04 AM
If you have been to any good professional college, you would know, the toughest part is getting in. Passing that too with average marks in no big deal. And you would also know how the reserved catagery people, barring few exceptions pass from these colleges.
Its no big deal social justice is something i do support, but when a politician goes abroad or get treated by a reputed doctor for his merit, why you and me should ne treated by one who was made a doctor by some unfair means and its my right to doubt on his ability to treat me with full competence.
Re: Re: Re: Now SC/ST students dont even have to go to Exam Cente
by Ary Doriz on Sep 01, 2009 03:11 AM
Read the comments before replying.
The original comment was about SCs and STs. Kindly reply accordingly. Would you prefer to be treated by an incompetent non-SC/ST or an incompetent SC/ST?
In India, the job market is so good these days...specially under the CONgress rule, India is flourishing...with so many jobs around...students should go for specialized study from the junior high school...just like US... :)...please support Kapil Sibal...the great reformist from the great party..of the great family...
Re: Brilliant !!!!
by such jano on Sep 01, 2009 02:18 AM
In India people are already going to 'specialized study', so many madrassa already imparting that 'specialized study' which has made global waves. In this govt goes this way, day is not far when Indian 'madrassa graduates' will create a global name for India and compete with Pakistan to gain that privileged honor.
Re: Re: Brilliant !!!!
by Indian Hindu on Sep 01, 2009 02:26 AM
Madrassas were well known for the 'specialized study'...but they were not conferring any degres...now he degress will be official..B.Terr & M.Terr..
Re: Re: Re: Brilliant !!!!
by such jano on Sep 01, 2009 02:29 AM
yeah, i heard Kapil Sibal saying in a TV debate that he will look into how madrassa education can be made acceptable so students can apply in UPSC and become colelctor, and apply in other jobs etc..so perhaps the degree names you suggest might help him to achieve that target of p-secs.
Re: Brilliant !!!!
by Trend setter on Sep 01, 2009 02:19 AM
I agree with you..India can replicate the success of US if it can adopt their system of job and education.
in keepiing with mmsingh's pledge that national resources belong to mino roty from arabia, all schools will henceforth be converted for the puropose of making indians scholars of the mino roty book.
Re: promoting mediocre cluture hence corruption
by such jano on Sep 01, 2009 01:37 AM
exams may not be perfect, there is a need to imrpove them so they serve the purpose, finding the bright and giving him the seat to run the afairs.
Re: Re: promoting mediocre cluture hence corruption
by rew ytr on Sep 01, 2009 02:14 AM
education has evolved over the years......so has the system of examination.......there was a tym when people had to read courses of 7 to 10 for 10th boards....then it was from 8 to 10...finally students had to read jus 9 n 10 and finally it becam only a one year course.....has there eva bin a change in quality of students....no....take iits...in the 60s,70s,n 80's it was more a short ans type qwestion paper....the 90s showed a repository of huge..gargantuan sums...and from the 2006 onwards....it again bcam objective n analytical....has the quality o students eva gone down down in iits.....
Re: Re: Re: promoting mediocre cluture hence corruption
by such jano on Sep 01, 2009 02:26 AM
ok, so improve the examination system, make it more objective and effective, who is opposed to that? why abolish it, are you just capable enough to abolish it as improving it may require much more hard work, knowldge and efficiency.. just to help the madrasa graduates?
One of the argument below that students die because of exam pressure so we abolish exam is stupid. You have to educate parents not to expect more than the child is capable of in forst place.
Re: Re: Re: Re: promoting mediocre cluture hence corruption
by rew ytr on Sep 01, 2009 02:46 AM
why r u so obsessed with madrasas....secondly...the comment below was right but the context is wrong...such suicides occur in the 12th boards...like the gurgaon girl recently....well the way out of that is also an entrance exam for the arts and commerce colleges.....n not jus percentage shud b the criterion.....cbse gives a lot of marks while state boards sumtimes do not bliv in giving such magnanimous marks.....thus two equally meritorious students sumtimes hav to appear on a different footing.....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: promoting mediocre cluture hence corruption
by rew ytr on Sep 01, 2009 03:49 AM
how much does exam help students...if u say that CCS wont help...be sure...the xams rnt helping all either....it is just a cross section u r looking at...a priviledged cross section....nd bout students being sycophantic and at the mercy of teachers.....i hav met people who hav...infiltrated evn into the boards where people correct copies...so how then is this system infallible.....such jano...know this thing...itz a kafkaesque world we live in....and our toughest job is to choose the lesser evil.....bt with the line between evils so thin....evn this bcums a difficult decision....under any system...it has never been that the good have always flourished.....it is,as i mention only a cross section...and nothing more....at any rate....this new policy ..if not 100% correct...wil help students in a gargantuan way....as i have said...no system is infallible....if this is not....so is the board system.....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: promoting mediocre cluture hence corruption
by rew ytr on Sep 01, 2009 03:13 AM
what then bout the 12th board....while many guys in my state,assam study hard to atleast get a requisite percentage thus being unable to devote their tym to entrance preparation...many guys who go to kota,rajsthan dont giv a heck to their boards...and sumtimes(this knowledge i got from an iitian guy who personally did it) evn use backhand methods to pass the boards whos sylabbus evn they dont know....leave alone the humanities ..not evn of scince n maths...while in assam board n all oder boards ...many students lose tym ovr studying subjects 4 boards to pass ...as you said"Many people today who are doing well come from very poor background and the credit goes to the system that they got something.." bt therez also another side of the coin...4m my xample..u shud know dat poor families who may nt b abl to send their wards for coaching wud thus be trapped in board studies in their states..while those at kota ..meritorious no doubt simply pass boards with nonchalance...without knowin d rigors of what boards r....bt that doesnt mean they r unworthy guys...it is these guys who take uo the lion's share of iit seats..i am being objective here... andyeah ...read the order well...the schools will have a continuous yearlong evaluation..the replacement is the CCS(continuous and comprehensive evaluation) SYSTEM.the aim of this order is to make the students compliant with experience based learning and not jus mug-ups.it is not a whimsical policy.made by one man.bt a collective decision..
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: promoting mediocre cluture hence corruption
by such jano on Sep 01, 2009 02:58 AM
You should know that they have provisions to compare marks from diferent board. A 95% in CBSE is not = to 95% in UP boars and none get that there..There is ssytem in place, its not perfect and need to be but its a good dystem which has performed well in a country where demand is far heigher than the resources available. Many people today who are doing well come from very poor background and the credit goes to the system that they got something..
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: promoting mediocre cluture hence corruption
by such jano on Sep 01, 2009 03:27 AM
One side the time and tested system, you think the CCS(continuous and comprehensive evaluation) SYSTEM where the baton is in the hand of teachers will be able to help such students? You are grossly mistaken, this system will make the teachers king and students just their sycophants. In a country dooomed by kangres sycophancy do we want to sacrifice another instiution to develop sycophants.
Board exams are a great faceless way to prove where you stand, although not perfect.
Regarding IIT coaching, these are just byproducts of the great value that IIT means, and to the point one doing coaching does not get into IIT without merit also someone having merit may not jut fail as he did not do any coaching. Many folks i know in IIT een in current batch come from small small towns who just cracked based on taking copy of agrawal classes from some other friend.
Overall curent system is not perfect but it has the capability to allow anyone with merit to claim his reward. Any ssytem that replaces this one must preserve this along with the other benefits it introduces. Sadly in s super populated and corrupt country like ours, exams are the only way for time being where what you write matters not who you are.
Re: promoting mediocre cluture hence corruption
by Ary Doriz on Sep 01, 2009 01:55 AM
The exams in India typically do not find the bright and talented. They have become an arena of espousing a person's 'cramming and vomitting' abilities.
Class X board is clearly not indispensible given that each year more students take their lives. Education should be more than just syllabus, model papers and model answers. You do 5 year question papers and you are through!!!!! Many teachers emphasize on these model papers rather than text books.
Education needs an overhaul. It should be made a positive experience to bring out the creative talents in students.
As for IIT exams, they have become a breeding ground for JEE coaching institutes and students with limited financial means are very likely to be excluded. You are not sucj jano, you are jhoot failao.
Re: Re: promoting mediocre cluture hence corruption
by such jano on Sep 01, 2009 02:06 AM
Your argument has some merit, however the solution you support only reflects your narrow goals which certainly are not driven by your conviction by more of your idelogy, no matter what you will hate some and support others.
The goal of education and examinations should to find the bright and give him the seat to drive. The current system is not perfect, but it has not failed either. Some not so bright people may also suceed in current system but i can say with cnvition no bright student fails in this system
Regardsless of what the coaching institutes do, every year you find many cases how someone from remote areas with little guidance cracked it, dont you?
Dont support something just becase it servs your political idelogy to serve your masters, for a change something think about the future of this nation than future of yourself.
As far as coaching is concerned how much ppl pay for such coaching in west, say for GRE or GMAT, even though they have similiar school system that you want to bring in india and supposly have brough the bright already out in public.
And trust me you would not have cracked IIT no matter how hard you get a coaching, unles you have the necesary brain to digest and apply coaching.
Re: Re: Re: promoting mediocre cluture hence corruption
by Ary Doriz on Sep 01, 2009 02:40 AM
Firstly, I appreciate that you are willing to accept that there are some merits in my arguments.
And I am not supporting the solution or anything like that. I am saying that the present system is far from being good and needs reform.
This is a step forward. These decisions are part of the reforms suggested by Sam Pitroda's panel/commission or whatever it is called. It has nothing to do with political ideology. People who say that education in India is the best are living in fool's paradise.
Reg IIT, going to coaching institutes should not become a de-facto 'pre-requisite' for entering into IIT.
The Class X board exams will become optional in all CBSE schools from the coming academic year (2010-11). who will opt? the school or the student? Or all schools of CBSE ? Others? what will they do? Trying to mess up all!
its high time that the examinations stop testing the by-hearting capability of the individual and concentrate on whether one has true understanding of the subject matter..glad to see some change in that direction.
The White Rabdie from Italy and her family gets one more official excuse to bunk their studies and remain illiterate. The Confer slaves will confer Doctorate and Phd degrees upon them.
Re: Re: One more excuse for Sonia Gandhi to not give Std X exams
by rew ytr on Sep 01, 2009 01:15 AM
if the same decision was taken by bjp with an alternative point that for exams...students have to study and apply rss booklets in their lives....you wud have hailed it as the most innovative reform of the century....wont u deshbhakt????
Re: Re: Re: One more excuse for Sonia Gandhi to not give Std X ex
by such jano on Sep 01, 2009 01:28 AM
'if the same decision was taken by bjp with an alternative point that for exams...' your argument sound like a lady who is fighting with her mother in law...
Re: Re: Re: Re: One more excuse for Sonia Gandhi to not give Std
by rew ytr on Sep 01, 2009 01:30 AM
well ....a fight is a fight....bt whatz the answer to my question....or will you hide your face like a little girl who fails to answer properly????
Re: Re: Re: One more excuse for Sonia Gandhi to not give Std X ex
by Deshbhakt on Sep 01, 2009 01:34 AM
RSS ideology is associated with nationalism. Dont try to mix it with Maddarsa jihad doctorate OR Missionary hate manual. Rewytr, So why are you so averse to nationalism. Why do you follow the alien religion and serve as a slave to this firangee fraud, cheat.
Re: Re: Re: Re: One more excuse for Sonia Gandhi to not give Std
by rew ytr on Sep 01, 2009 01:57 AM
@deshbhakt....i am not averse to nationalism...jus my belief is that nationalism is not a one way road....i believe in a diffrnt brand of nationalism....i am not equating rss books with xtian or islamic books....bt i know and have seen them....even the rss booklets distort history to a large extent....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One more excuse for Sonia Gandhi to not give
by rew ytr on Sep 01, 2009 02:00 AM
@SUCH JANO WELL there goes such jano again...typical bjp mentality.....u can joke and pinch anyone bt one vitriolic joke against u....and u gt frustated....thus bringing in your colloqial jargon...as to debate....yes i deserve it bt the debate i deserve can in no way be with a rss sanghi lyk u....whu at the drop of a hat against him....turns lunatic.....got that......
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One more excuse for Sonia Gandhi to not give
by rew ytr on Sep 01, 2009 02:07 AM
@such jano... why cant i reply directly underneath your hate filled message....are u really acting like a tiny girl....escaping or have hidden something...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One more excuse for Sonia Gandhi to not give
by rew ytr on Sep 01, 2009 02:05 AM
@deshbhakt....i do not follow any alien religion....b4 u or esp.such jano..in his extreme frustration...shouts at me the most common dialogue of frustration on rediffboards..that is "you are a porki!!!"...lemme tell u...i am an indian...bt an indian u wud detest...as i believe in a different brand of politics....i dont serve to a firangee fraud cheat...i serve as a slage to my tricolor...thatz what all i can say...
Re: One more excuse for Sonia Gandhi to not give Std X exams
by Ary Doriz on Sep 01, 2009 01:59 AM
You can force students to sit in classes but if they dont want, they will not learn..., like you,..where did Sonia come into this?
Re: Re: One more excuse for Sonia Gandhi to not give Std X exams
by rew ytr on Sep 01, 2009 02:39 AM
@suchjano... abe you are a rss/vhp ch.aaam.cha who licks their dirt on their sandals....debate if you are not a wimp and a cow.aaaaa.rd
Re: Re: Re: One more excuse for Sonia Gandhi to not give Std X ex
by such jano on Sep 01, 2009 03:06 AM
This is your problem you think RSS/VHP has a problem with your ideas because you are musi , and think i am the same.
Its a difference in perception, a musi and non musi perception are so different.
Re: Re: Re: Re: One more excuse for Sonia Gandhi to not give Std
by rew ytr on Sep 01, 2009 04:26 AM
one more thing bout your last line that a musi and a non musi are so different.....this statement was quite pedestrian... we indians..since time immemorial have bin argumentative...go to a place and take a motley cross section of indians...it wont b like a group of britons or frenchmen...every one indian will have a different thing to say...therein lies the strength of my nation...so perceptions ...rather than bein different betn musi and non musi...they vary momentously between indian to indian....
Re: Re: Re: One more excuse for Sonia Gandhi to not give Std X ex
by rew ytr on Sep 01, 2009 04:21 AM
thatz your biggest problem such jano...agred u r a nationalist hindu...bt whoever doesnt toe your line becomes a mu.s.i how????i am fundamentally against rss/vhp bcuz i am against many of their ideologies.....why cant u,such jano accept the fact that being a hindu does not mean that u have to be a hi.n.doo nationalist.....why cant i be a hindu and an indian nationalist....i always try to keep away my religion from my outlook....and u made a mistake in understanding my last post....i do not think u r rss/vhp bt your earlier provocative comment(calling me of another nation) provoked this comment....kk!!! is it imperative that i have to be a hi.nd.oo nationalist to be an indian???why cant i be nationalist to be indian....i do not think either of us is more indian than the other.... bt thatz the problem..u wud neva accept dat...the oder day..i had a debate on rediff wid one tar.u.n mu.kher.jee bout ne terrorism....i am from assam...n mr.mukherjee was blatantly propagatin the lie that terrorism in ne is xtian in flavour...howeva much i told him d truth that terrorism in ne is ethnic based..nt religion basd...he rather askd me to read history...this was so brazen..from his words i realized he is not from ne...but he wud nt bliv my facts...therein comes the exclusivity which i so detest...why is it that only hi.n.du nationalists are correct and no one else..?why cant a nationalist be correct????such jano....therein lies my difference with rss/vhp n hi.nd0 nationalism....
