The Israeli model should not be emulated by India at any cost.
But, try putting things in perspective. Israel took to the Zionist Movement because of mounting pressure from the Nazis who were out to exterminate them. It was not a matter of choice. World could not find a safe place for the Jews, so they went back to the ancestral land. As to attack on civilians is concerned, it is more a case of terrorists in those lands (Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan) using civilians as soft targets by deliberately hiding among the civilians. Civilian casulalty is inevitable. takethe example of even peace keeping missions of the UN in the past.
The Israelis are only concerned about safety of their peaople to move freely in a land (read Israel) no matter what the cost.
Remember Entebbe... no nation has ever taken up such a daring rescue misssion for the safety of their people. correct me if i am wrong. The religion of any person protecting his country should be the safety of people of his country, not the neighbouring country. Greatest honours and medals are given just for this reason.
"Two militants, jawan dead in J&K encounter"..... [ 2 Aug, 2006 0937hrs ISTPTI ]
I think you may take this information to be a routine and casual one...as it usually floods any news heading for past two decades or so..
How could you expect the family member of the jawan who sacrificed his life fighting those wretched Pak-sponsored militants, to be consoled by your words..think Praful before you write..
Still India should be adopt restraint..You have spoken about a sane appraoch..could you elaborate on that...just saying won't work...
Anyway what sane methods can we expect from this insane person... Satish
RE:Israel model
by Satish Sasikumar on Aug 04, 2006 01:38 PM
Hi Sameer, I think you have got it all wrong..You must go through a series of my postings concerning the Model which Mr.Praful has suggested..I have necver justified the killing of innocent civilians anywhere in any country..This message was in context of Praful insenstiveness to Indian issues asking us to emulate Israelis.. Secondly it is the Lebanese Govt.duty to protect its civilians whom these terrorist are using as shield to protect themselves..since terrorists are breeding in their country and since they have Hezbollah representatives in their Govt.(please update your information in this regard), it amounts to fact that the Lebanese Govt.sympathsizes with these unlawful groups and hence the civilians who are in fact voted the Govt. are facing the brunt..that's one of the sadest part..remember Israel had requested the civilians to move to safer places..in case they do not you would expect civilian casulaties. I have not justified Israel's attack on civilians and feel that India must not emulate them, rather I advocate limited attacks on terrorist camps .I request you go through all my postings and just not one of the postings and draw conclusions. Satish
RE:Israel model
by Sameer on Aug 07, 2006 11:08 AM
Satish, I did go through your other postings! Beleive me it is you who needs to know the realities!Your (mis)information is from a heavily biased media who apparently makes an impression of talking sense and democracy,but it is not! Ever heard about "Yagans"?You only hear about Hamas! In fact Hamas is and rightly so, as revered by Palestinians as "Azad hind sena " by us! They are no terrorists, they are fighting for their rights,their land,their country and if you a patriot, you should respect them for that! Dont go through that stupid argument that 1000 yrs before, jews were staying in present Israel, it is nothing but the scratching of Pillars by helpless Zionists!!
RE:Israel model
by Satish Sasikumar on Aug 04, 2006 01:49 PM
Hi Sameer, " Thats exactly how hamas and hezbollah originated in the first place!!! >>>"
Please update your knowledge on how and what for they they originated ...as birth of similar organizations can never be justified in any civilian society..though they are realities...I am not trying to justify Israeli actions, but I am putting my view that India needs to generate any model that fits Indian setup as Indian culture, conditions, mindset, problems are unique to India, though terrorism is a global phenomenon.. I was not able to undertsand why Praful has to think that one needs to emulate Israeli model, then only comes the view of perils associated with it.
RE:Israel model
by Sameer on Aug 03, 2006 02:31 PM
Hii satish,
On the same lines, what do you expect of an innocent Lebanese civilian(remember, there are thousands of em!!!!)whose entire family including women and little children were brutally killed by Israel,for no reason at all??? Become what?.....Shakespeare????????? Thats exactly how hamas and hezbollah originated in the first place!!!
Hello Praful I still fail to understand the "Tunda" link in the citing perils of Israel model..
It seems to you have tried to draw some farfetched conclusions...I hardly feel anyone could appreciate the article, as it is laden with prejudiced information... Why could you not try to get a more realistic and unbiased picture of the events, prior to writing these articles? Satish
So, Praful, do you mean that we should not fight back against terrorism ?? Either way, we are in peril. What difference does your long article then make ?
RE:how is it perilous
by Kiran G Parihar on Aug 03, 2006 11:04 PM
Hi Omer Farooque " They are the law and government in that South Lebanon so you as a citizen dont have too many choice." If this is what you understand then Lebanon state is a failed state & Israel, to protect its people whatever is doing is 100% correct. If the people of Palestine chooses Hamas as a government whose sole mission is to wipe out Israel, then Israel have full moral & legal rights to wage a direct war against Palestine. Ot should they wait till Hamas strikes Israel with Nuclear weapons.
RE:how is it perilous
by Roby on Aug 05, 2006 12:45 PM
Hi Omer thanks for responding. Thanks Kiran, you put it good. Omer, according to me whoever does atrocities against innocent people for any cause let them be IRA, Hamas, Hesbollah or LeT etc. they are terrorists. No justification could be attached to these. Are you trying to say if any groups of people elect democratically an organization and if they commit any kind of invasion or terrorism against other groups / countries, it is valid / justifiable? I think it is a terrible mistake as human being unless you are chauvinist for that cause. Democracy is a different issue altogether and it is not valid point in justifying Hesbollah activities against Israel. Regarding your second point, the same parameter would be applicable to Israel also. They are doing their duty towards people of Israel by protecting and safeguarding their lives and properties. So what I am saying is nothing could be resolved by mere violence. Also dont define violence as something Hamas does for survival and Israel as atrocities. Solution could only be attained by recognizing each other and peaceful coexistence. This requires some adjustments and reconciliation.
RE:how is it perilous
by Omer Farooque on Aug 03, 2006 01:23 AM
Roby - get your facts right (that seems to be the prevailing problem for anyone who is not for what Praful is saying in this article)
First - Classifying Palestinians terrorists - I presume you mean Hamas - I ask you when do organizations stop being terrorists and change agents? After all they were elected by the Palestinian people - does this mean now that they are a terrorist government? Just take a look at the IRA in ireland - they are no longer classified as terrorists - after 30 years and thousands of attacks on Britons. My point is this - these folks have a cause and that cause aligns with the needs of it constituency hence garnering legitimacy - in the civilized world this is called Democracy.
Second - on Hamas from Lebanon - Its Hezabollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Palestine - Period! About these units using residential locations to launch attacks on Israel - Let me ask you this? What would you do if where you lived the only law and order entity (they also run hospitals and other government functions in south Lebanon)? They are the law and government in that South Lebanon so you as a citizen dont have too many choice. Get your facts before you post - all of you!!
Question here is would Palestine terrorists recognize existence of nation of Israel? If so it could be resolved amicably it seems. Said this I am never justifying injustices or violence against Palestine people by Israel. But I am reiterating that responsibility of those atrocities relies on Palestine terrorists.
Also tell me one thing, if Hamas using entire country of Lebanon to wage war against Israel, how you expect Israel to respond? Also who is responsible for launching rockets from residential localities of Lebanon knowing fully that Israel would revert to same targets? It is same that you through your child in the way where you know bomb would be dropped and telling child is killed by one who dropped bomb. Also be informed Hama never allow people to escape to increase human dead count to create sympathy.
Try to see both sides dear Praful and give a impartial analysis
I dont want to attack pakistan but what about those fundamentalist who keep doing brain washing of innocent GOOD human beings , at Pakistan and also in India. And terrifying them on ISLAM is in Danger and they have to fight till the death.
Atrocities against innocent people whether it could be against Israelites or Lebanese is deplorable. There is no doubt on it. But as a human being you should value both lives not just one party of enemies.
I think Praful selectively omitting certain facts in favour of Palestine terrorists. Whenever some kind of peace is coming Hama or Hesbollah would strike through suicide bombers and Israel would off course retaliate.
Current crisis precipitated by provoking Israel by abducting and killing their soldiers. Do you mean to say Israel should follow India absorbing any crime against their people. I agree with you for your concern of people getting killed by Israel bombings. I would like to your opinion regarding human beings blasted off from buses, shopping malls in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and other cities in Israel. Is it Ok, or you mean to say those are just responses from Palestine?
For your information I would suggest study history of middle east and asia region from pre historic times. We could understand that Israel stayed/lived a good part of timeline in this part of world. They were exiled by different empires and lastly by Romans, and they recaptured may much laterin1948.
You are one of the intelligent idiots. You see what's wrong and still pretend it is not. You debate just for the sake of it without realising what is right to do. You are like the defense lawyer of a paedophile rapist who knows he is defending evil still does so to prove his own worth. People like you created the naxalites in west bengal in the 70's and wiped out a whole generation of students. People like you have done only politics in the state of west bengal and deprived it economically. Now you want to destroy the whole nation. Mr. Editor Sir, please don't give people like Praful any space in your website.
seems to me that in india we are falling short of producing realists. idealism as exhibited in bidwais comment sounds good on paper. but when u are attcked unprovoked the best response is to give the terrorists a resolute resonse. anyway i really dont think india should be applying any models. trust our intelligence and do the needful
