we should not have opted for a GE Engine.there are better engines available.Russian engines used in MIG,sukhoi,eurofigter.mirrage etc. were better.Now the US have got a full control over LCA.they can block the sales of engine anytime if they find we are not with them.This is how we become slaves.
Re: why GE Engine?
by Sheetal Kaur on Jan 26, 2011 02:14 AM
Don't you there is something called COPY. All you have to do is slightly modify the engine and hey presto you have an engine without infringing the copyrights.
Re: Re: why GE Engine?
by rama anne on Jan 27, 2011 08:50 AM
Sheetal Kaur I think you are a bit baised
GTRE at Bangalore has been working on indias own engine called KAVERI for last 16 years yes 16 years of hardwork as per news recently it has passed Critical tests in Russia (altitude and flight tests)
It is clocking 70-75 KN thrust and a bit heavey IAF - Indian Air Force needs 90-95 KN so Indian team is closely working with SNECMA french engine maker to get KAVERI clock 90-95 KN
your comment COPY is a bit baised are you a pakistani snooping around here in the website
or you have some colonial hangover like we Indians are not good only west is good at Technologies
Re: Re: why GE Engine?
by Manoj M on Jan 26, 2011 10:17 PM
It is not as simple as it seems to be. For eg: We do not have enough expertise on materials yet. Identifying the right material composition is a key factor where we lack heavily. This is just an example in lot many.
But I don't say it is impossible, just that it is not as simple as it might look from outside.
Re: Re: Re: why GE Engine?
by Amit Saraswat on Jan 26, 2011 10:55 PM
Quite a foolish discussion. 1. The Engine GE is giving in itself is a patented one and cannot be made by any other company. 2. COPY. We cannot manufacture a single car engine forget about a Aircraft Engine. It would take another 20 years for us to reach there.
Manoj is right in the approach. Its not impossible but its very hard to get there.
lets have group discussion instead of argument. Q..why is tejas third generation fighter aircraft? Q..is speed defines the catagory of plane? Q..if yes why they did not installed fifth generation engine form GE? Q..wind tunnel analysis of body can be subcontracted to any lab for a nominal cost?why it takes so long? Q..the body shape can be studied from other planes and analysis can be done, it is not copy just saving of time.so can they go for fifth generation aircraft? Q..main thing is the metal content of body and other parts, do we have proper metallurgy lab to undertake the job? how much money it cost to start a lab? piont to be noted india is 1.2 trillion dollar economy! Q..did they file any patent since they claim its indegenious? inshort how many patents were filed? Q..lastly if your child finish 4 year engineering course in 10 years will you still congratulate and celebrate?
in the light of the above i would like say thankyou to the team cause atlast they didit.but feels sorry for the guys who has been working since 1961 as in last 50 years they might have got retired and didnt see this happening in their carrer time. also if last fifty years if they would have worked on making engines we could have been doing bussiness of exporting it by now and can fund the project without asking donations from government.
Re: Q
by ash judd on Jan 26, 2011 03:10 AM
I have a character limit here so I will split my replies into two:
1.Tejas is not a third generation aircraft. If you know the specs of the aircraft, its technologies and its avionics, they are the best available out there. Its body and intakes makes it part stealthy as well. 2.Tejas is certainly not the fastest of the aircrafts out there so speed is not even a factor. It is exactly what its name is, LIGHT COMBAT AIRCRAFT. Dont compare it to F22 or SU30 or its likes. 3.How do you define a fifth generation engine? The GE F404 is the most successful engine in military aviation history. More than 4,000 F404 engines power F/A-18 Hornets of the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps, USAF F-117 Stealth Fighters, as well as Hornets of the air forces of Australia, Canada, Finland, Kuwait, Malaysia, Spain, and Switzerland. 4.You really think wind tunnel analysis is easy eh? Just for your education, try reading the story of the development of the Bugatti Veyron. Might open your eyes.
Re: Q
by ash judd on Jan 26, 2011 03:12 AM
Reply 2
5 My friend, making a fighter from scratch is not like making a paper plane. You obviously do not know what goes into an aircraft. 6.Yes we do have that technology in India. Tejas is a mixture of carbon composite and various metals. Part of the reason why it took this long for Tejas to develop is due to the concurrent development of these technologies. 7.This has nothing to do with patent. Just because India manufactures cars on its own does not give it patent rights, however, if you are going to build a car from scratch without any outside help or input, it will take you time. Nothing to do with invention. 8.This is just an ignorant question.
Re: Re: Re: Q
by Satish Shanbhag on Jan 26, 2011 07:54 PM
thanks Ash, you have given a befitting reply to people who criticize India's development instead of encouraging it!!! Somebody mentioned that how would one feel if his child completes engineering course in 10 years to that i would like to reply a course is defined by a university,Textbooks guide the student and questions in exams are asked from a predetermined syllabus.. if the student had to do everything from scratch without any guidance he would have taken 4 years just to determine whar has to be done!!!It is easier to comment on somebody else's failures but very difficult to achieve something substantial!!!!
Re: Re: Q
by mightybullfrog@rediffmail.com on Jan 26, 2011 10:30 PM
the first plane was made by right brothers its just two of them and they do not have technology at that time the point here is no resources and heads to work on that project. Q..making a plane is a task and its not that unless u design one part u cant make the second part all can be done simultaneously so the point is should i divide entire project in 50 years or consider each part took 50 years in making. Q..lets divide the project in part engine-got from others, body and controls to regulate fuel supply and navigation controls, fuel storage, what else? Q..wh is that we spend more than 30 billion $ each each year on purchasing weapons not allocating proper budget to R&D?
Re: Re: Re: Q
by Amit Saraswat on Jan 26, 2011 11:07 PM
You are not even worth a reply. But just to shut your mouth: 1. Its Wright brothers. 2. Tejas program was started in 1980 and was almost completed in 1998. Just because US imposed sanctions against India in wake of Nuclear Tests the LCA could not be completed. Thats just less than 20 years which is common. 3. Our defense budget is not even USD 30Bn. I dont know from where did you get the figures that we purchase weapons worth USD30Bn every year.
Re: paatel ?
by rama anne on Jan 27, 2011 09:09 AM
because people like you need to be educated to be told india is much more in technology terms so that facts are let known
Re: paatel ?
by Unknown on Jan 25, 2011 11:31 PM
oh my god, madhavan nair of ISRO - he is sure to shoot down and slow down any progress, now that the money is in his hands :(
He has already "blasted" off the recent one and lost the previous satellite of India in his short term.
Hope this person can be replaced soon ! Too much corruption stinks.
And all you guys hope for fast progress? Can you all rid these corrupt people of earth?
Does Tejas really fly? has anyone seen it take off? I hope we have not designed this for target practice for china. when can we see india design a real fighter plane
Re: Question?
by krantiveer on Jan 26, 2011 10:44 PM
vikash jani...you r SICK to the core. you reek of incompetency and skepticicm yourself.What have YOU done in your lifetime which has NOT been done by others or ANYTHING to make your parents proud? Just P!55 0FF, loser!!!
Re: re :Proud movement for india
by mightybullfrog@rediffmail.com on Jan 25, 2011 11:33 PM
lets have group discussion instead of argument. Q..why is tejas third generation fighter aircraft? Q..is speed defines the catagory of plane? Q..if yes why they did not installed fifth generation engine form GE? Q..wind tunnel analysis of body can be subcontracted to any lab for a nominal cost?why it takes so long? Q..the body shape can be studied from other planes and analysis can be done, it is not copy just saving of time.so can they go for fifth generation aircraft? Q..main thing is the metal content of body and other parts, do we have proper metallurgy lab to undertake the job? how much money it cost to start a lab? piont to be noted india is 1.2 trillion dollar economy! Q..did they file any patent since they claim its indegenious? inshort how many patents were filed? Q..lastly if your child finish 4 year engineering course in 10 years will you still congratulate and celebrate?
in the light of the above i would like say thankyou to the team cause atlast they didit.but feels sorry for the guys who has been working since 1961 as in last 50 years they might have got retired and didnt see this happening in their carrer time. also if last fifty years if they would have worked on making engines we could have been doing bussiness of exporting it by now and can fund the project without asking donations from government.
The engine is the life of the aircraft. If that is built by GE how can it be called indigenous, even the rest is built by India? Please someone clarify.
Re: Re: GE engine
by rama anne on Jan 25, 2011 06:09 AM
such a crap are you really indian looks like both the one who asked question and you are pakistanis or indian enemies
Re: GE engine
by Raghu on Jan 25, 2011 06:14 AM
Even boeing enigines are manufactured by rolce royce. Dude there is lot of other structural enigineering and avionics involved in designing an aeroplane. Unlike automobiles engine is not that complicated in aeroplanes. Please dont comment with limited knowledge
Re: Re: GE engine
by syz2@rediffmail.com on Jan 25, 2011 12:53 PM
They are manufactured in USA. That is the bottom line, whereas the heart of LCA is manufactured outside India. I am Indian. I don't understand if someone criticizes the government, why it is necessary to prove that he/she is Indian or not? Do we live in a state like China?
Re: Re: Re: Re: GE engine
by rama anne on Jan 27, 2011 08:55 AM
Correct Raghu It has passed very very critical tests in Russia real flight and altitude for 45-50 minute duration
2.It has 70-75 KN thrust all by indian efforts ,but IAF needs 90-95 KN so we are taking SNECMA help to fine tune and get ito clock 90-95 KN thrust
3.Once we have done that ,in Russia itself they will test 50-60 more tests to make sure
4.then LCA next batch will be fitted with KAVERI engines and further test trails will be conducted until induction
Re: Re: Re: GE engine
by mightybullfrog@rediffmail.com on Jan 25, 2011 11:34 PM
lets have group discussion instead of argument. Q..why is tejas third generation fighter aircraft? Q..is speed defines the catagory of plane? Q..if yes why they did not installed fifth generation engine form GE? Q..wind tunnel analysis of body can be subcontracted to any lab for a nominal cost?why it takes so long? Q..the body shape can be studied from other planes and analysis can be done, it is not copy just saving of time.so can they go for fifth generation aircraft? Q..main thing is the metal content of body and other parts, do we have proper metallurgy lab to undertake the job? how much money it cost to start a lab? piont to be noted india is 1.2 trillion dollar economy! Q..did they file any patent since they claim its indegenious? inshort how many patents were filed? Q..lastly if your child finish 4 year engineering course in 10 years will you still congratulate and celebrate?
in the light of the above i would like say thankyou to the team cause atlast they didit.but feels sorry for the guys who has been working since 1961 as in last 50 years they might have got retired and didnt see this happening in their carrer time. also if last fifty years if they would have worked on making engines we could have been doing bussiness of exporting it by now and can fund the project without asking donations from government.
Re: india should attack pakistan to test is LCA is battle worthy
by syz2@rediffmail.com on Jan 25, 2011 03:23 AM
You should be put behind bars for creating war tension between two nations.
Re: Re: india should attack pakistan to test is LCA is battle wor
by krantiveer on Jan 26, 2011 11:00 PM
WHY?...with a "b0hni" on Porki terrorist camps.The bombs should be packed with pigfat so that those scumbags are denied the jannat they seek thru their na-Pak activities.
