Ever wonder why most states and small towns have not let Wal-Mart setup in USA itself barring a few major cities? Ever wonder why the neighbourhood Mom and Pop stores need to survive? These superstores employ only a few people. How many people can Reliance employ in say 10,000 stores all over India? At the rate of average 5 people per store it will not be moe than 1,000 lakh people max. These people are young undergrauduates who cannot hope to make a permanent career as stoe help or grow and only work for training or experience or pocket money like how we have people hired in MacDonalds. These stores don't hire uneducated people or people who lacl communication skills from poor families who have neither education nor the means to suceed in competitive jobs. But the small kirana neghbourhood baniyas employ such needy people even if their employment borders on exploitation. But these stores fed those mouths that both the Government or Superstores don't bother about. Such unskileld labour force employed in such Mom and Pop stores amount to more than 10 crores and soon even they will be jobless as the small styore owners run by middle class families like you and me will be hit. Small time business will be crsuhed by the finacial juggernauts like Reliance who will then end up monopolizing and rigging the markets like everything else.
RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Jai Nambiar on Oct 03, 2007 01:24 PM
Such comments are a result of ignorance. 5 people per store...laughable. What about the people involved in logistics and supply chain mgmt. You don't see them, so they don't exist for you. What about marketing people? What about thousands of others who work in the background including middle and top management? And exploitation...have you seen the current levels of exploitation by the kirana shop owners. At least, employees of big retailers will have better dignity.
RE:RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Vikas Bhatt on Oct 03, 2007 01:37 PM
What ignorance? I made a simple minimal calculation on the size needed in small stores in small towns that will be more in numbers than in bigger cities. Even if you count all those people will this concept create 50 lakh - 1 crores of jobs? 1 crore educated and aspiring youths of supercoolies and attendents. Wow! The enxt thing after BPOs. Working for peanuts at superstores behind counters. I doubt it will benefit the country by large when compared to 10 crores of unorganized workers who will lose out in the future. Ever heard of the food chain? Deer eating grass and lion eating the deer. Thats where balance is. The day the lions directly jump the que and start eating grass is when nature will be finished. From shops, to retail shops to wholesalers to transporters to storage warehouses or godowns to farmers, a large number of people make a living in between, people no one cares about or notices. These disadvantaged labourers will be further disadvantaged and nullified. Think beyond rosy stats that you can see at the peril of the ones you yourself can't. I can't make people like you who dribnk colas for 10 bucks see the logic.
RE:RE:RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Vikas Bhatt on Oct 03, 2007 01:43 PM
A generation that blows 10 bucks on a bottled cola won't understand the logistics. You will spend 10 bucks on a cola that is essentially a 4 rupees production including the bottle. This results in 250% profit for a company that uses moe machine sto work than people. half the profits are paid to super-rich Hrithiks and Sachins to endorse in commercials. If you used that 10 bucks for drinking juice at some stall, that money would go in benefiting and feeding not just the guy who mashed the juice and serevd you, but his help, the retailer/wholsale market guy who sodl him the fruits, the transporter, the warehouse owner, and ultimately the farmer. It is chain like this that makes better employment and keeps a majority of your poplulation fed who otherwise will turn to crime. What we need is more market prices for farmer to be freed from political bereaucracy and not more superstores. What we need is better tax systems to make such market forces accountable. Thats all.
RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Ajin Cherian on Oct 03, 2007 02:21 PM
What about man who eats both vegetables and meat? And monkeys?
RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Deepak Verma on Oct 03, 2007 12:04 PM
Dude its a part of development. When a country is developing, people has to leave the traditional things and come up with new ideas and job opportunities. Like when machines came, lot of workers which were doing manual things got fired, but it will eventually led to better quality and less time. People should evolve with new ideas and growth opportunities - but one thing is sure - the new india requires people to be educated.
RE:RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Vikas Bhatt on Oct 03, 2007 12:16 PM
If this is development why is USA not making it work universally in it's own states everywhere? Why are there restricted zones for such stores in Vietnam, Indonesia and UK. Why is thia model being thrust nationwide only in India. Who will be responsible for so many unskilled people losing job and for the resulting law and order situation and the city naxalism we may soon face. This kind of whimsical development only stirs Civil unrest and a civil war. even as a few corrupt and rich people benefit from it. UPA talks of Chibnese model of SEZ and sanctions 600 SEZs evena s China runs just 6 of them and are still monitoring the results of the SEZs. We talk of Walmart and let tje set up a thousand stores overnight even as thay have ben rejected in most countries where free trade is unrestricted. Why should India be amde a guinea pig for most greedy corporates? UPA is hellbent on making hay while they are still in power as this communal and anti-people coalition won't alst long. UPA is taxing midlle class more and more even as they announce more and more sops to such corporates and drive the farmers out of their farmlands. Superstore culture will bring no development but utter ruin.
RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Ajin Cherian on Oct 03, 2007 12:28 PM
There are over 2000 Walmart superstores in the US. and this is just the superstores not to mention their smaller stores. And this link gives you the number of super stores per state. http://www.statemaster.com/graph/lif_wal_sto_num_of_sup-lifestyle-walmart-stores-number-supercenters Only Hawaii, Vermont and Alaska.. the states with the least number of people don't have a WalMart superstore. So are you syaing that its ok to have this many stores in India?
RE:RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Ajin Cherian on Oct 03, 2007 12:30 PM
The number of WalMart discount stores in each US state:
RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Ajin Cherian on Oct 03, 2007 11:56 AM
5 people per store! Are you kidding!! Have you been to a Big Bazaar or a Foodworld near you? And we're talking about a Walmart or a Reliance which would be ten times bigger!
RE:RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Vikas Bhatt on Oct 03, 2007 12:04 PM
These superstores will only exist in big cities and create a young generation of dtp operators and trolley pullers. Is that the future you want? Like vending MacDonalds bugers on your feet the whole day for a measly intake? So hopw does it help employment and the country by creating an educated generation of glorified peons and coolies? The smaller tonws will have smaller outlets like Subiksha. All this is presumption but still how many people will the corporates employ? 10 lakhs at ebst doing menial tardy jobs? That still won't prevent displacement of 10 crore people and small business houses that fuels a greater pan India economy.
RE:RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Vikas Bhatt on Oct 03, 2007 12:00 PM
The loser will be real India whose small town economy will be ruined completely and the rural people facing more unemployment and risks overall with noweher left to go. This whole FDI mdoel is flawed and aimed at making trillionaires out of crorepatis, even as self sufficient self employed class of people are pushed to extinction. This will only result nin more civil ubnrest and soon the whole country will be shedding blood on the streets fighting these corporates. What then? Congress and JUPA has sued the Aaam Aadmi plank and is totally sold to builders lobby & crony capitalist movements. Ambanis can apply for any business and get away with it. One day India will be totally dependent on Reliance for everything - Telecommunications, retail, foof, energy, clothes etc. Congress is elling away teh common mana nd farmers to builders and corporate empires and we are clapping our hands blindly awed by figures of foreign investment evena s we start importing wheat at high market rates while our farmers commit suicides by thousands. This FDI crap is another form of western slavery thrust on us aimed at creating a greater social divide in the world of small businesses as well. No study is undertaken to determine the impact of such policies on society, people, and country as a whole.
RE:RE:RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Vikas Bhatt on Oct 03, 2007 12:04 PM
The loser will be real India whose small town economy will be ruined completely and the rural people facing more unemployment and risks overall with noweher left to go. This whole FDI mdoel is flawed and aimed at making trillionaires out of crorepatis, even as self sufficient self employed class of people are pushed to extinction. This will only result nin more civil ubnrest and soon the whole country will be shedding blood on the streets fighting these corporates. What then? Congress and JUPA has sued the Aaam Aadmi plank and is totally sold to builders lobby & crony capitalist movements. Ambanis can apply for any business and get away with it. One day India will be totally dependent on Reliance for everything - Telecommunications, retail, foof, energy, clothes etc. Congress is elling away teh common mana nd farmers to builders and corporate empires and we are clapping our hands blindly awed by figures of foreign investment evena s we start importing wheat at high market rates while our farmers commit suicides by thousands. This FDI crap is another form of western slavery thrust on us aimed at creating a greater social divide in the world of small businesses as well. No study is undertaken to determine the impact of such policies on society, people, and country as a whole. UPA politicians just take kickbacks and let the corporate houses a free run just so Chidambaram can stay happy with his statistics and paint a decepetion, a mirage of India shining - a mistake that cost BJ
RE:RE:RE:RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Vikas Bhatt on Oct 03, 2007 12:06 PM
UPA politicians just take kickbacks and let the corporate houses a free run just so Chidambaram can stay happy with his statistics and paint a decepetion, a mirage of India shining - a mistake that cost BJP a second outing last time.
RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Arif on Oct 03, 2007 12:13 PM
Good thinking by Vandana Shiva, she understands the economy well. Economy thrives on business, any business is just buying and selling. In the process many people get benefitted. If all products bypass the supply chain and reach the customer, how will the economy grow. I am a software professional, I get paid 25K, but my company would be charging 100K for my services. Would that be exploitation by my company because I get paid less? By the logic of some of the people here, if I and group of friends directly sell our services to a USA company then the Indian billing rates would come down. If Indian company billing rates come down, then they will lay off INDIAN jobs,(DO WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT FEW JOBS LOSSES SINCE WE ARE EMPLOYED ANYWAY?) Many people will suffer as a result of few. Economy is a large entity, India is still a growing economy, the majority of people are poor, they still need small businesses to survive.
Reliance is the biggest dubious company in the world. Once Anil Ambani picked up a stake in Spanco tele. Guess what, before he bought into this company many foreign companies bought the shares of Spanco tele, just a day before. After this news was announced the share just sky rocketed to twice in a week. That's 30 crores in a week of stock market rigging. Ambani's are just white collared thieves, sucking the blood of common Indian public.
RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Satish Dewangan on Oct 03, 2007 03:08 PM
ur comparison is wrong.In case of retailing,u r a customer ,and in the example given by u u r an employee.This retail company gives good price to the customer ,still the offer resonable price to customers b'cpz middlemen is not there.But when u r talking about IT company,A lot of people invloved in the process for efficeintly delivering the services.
RE:RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Vikas Bhatt on Oct 03, 2007 12:18 PM
10,000 white collar gulami will cause 50,000 unskilled direct unemployment. Just becasue you don't understand the dynamics of the Pan India impact doesn't mean you abuse people over a forum here. So fine this is what you want. 10 laskh of tomorrow's youngsters working as miads in a store helping pack food stuff and lining up trolleys. Glad your ambitions are so great.
RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Rebel on Oct 03, 2007 12:39 PM
Vikas Bhatt mujhe lagta hai ki tera bhi Kirana ka Dukan hai aur ab tere paas grahak nahi aa rahe hain .... because people are flocking to Dmart and Big Bazar .... where they get Goods at reasonable price and of higher Quality ...tell me Why shud I go to a rude Baniya who has been sucking the blood of the middle class for generations ... and he did it because he knew there was no alternative to him ... Organised Retail is the best thing to happen to India
RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Vikas Bhatt on Oct 03, 2007 01:30 PM
It's amazing how you can just jump to conclusions just becuase you presume any person defending a kirana store is a baniya? What a narrow minded fool. If I were a kirana store owner I would be at my shop and not on the internet. I work in an IT company as web designer. I have nothing to do with Kirana stores personally. My wife buys from superstores herself. I am not being hypocritical here but say what I see happening and namely large scale unemployment and closure in urorganized sector and more and more desparate educated workforce turning coolies in such stores.
RE:Retail Corporatization will result in massive umemployment and social unrest.
by Arif on Oct 03, 2007 12:25 PM
Reliance is the biggest dubious company in the world. Once Anil Ambani picked up a stake in Spanco tele. Guess what, before he bought into this company, many foreign companies bought the shares of Spanco tele, just 1 DAY before. Most of these foreign companies are connected to reliance indirectly. After this news was announced the share just sky rocketed to twice in a week. Common people could not buy this share for a month because it was freezed in top circuit everyday. That's 30 crores in a week of stock market rigging. Ambani's are just white collared thieves, sucking the blood of common Indian public.
Similarly it is only a matter of time before they will dictate to the poor Indian farmer on the prices at they will buy. Why does Reliance not go to USA and do supermarket retailing? Because they know how Indian policies can be twisted, Indian people fooled repeatedly. Their manner of operation is simple, rig the stock market, make money, use the same to open up a new business. We Indians are selling our souls to reliance.
As a democractic country, nobody can prohibit MNCs coming in the retail business. They have every right to do any business they like..what is wrong in establishing big departmental stores in every nook and corner of the country ? They are giving immense opportunities to the unemployed and the people in general will enjoy shopping..otherwise, Indians will go back to the 20th century..Go to China and see how they are developing !
RE:Retailing by Big Business Groups
by Gajanan Mohite on Oct 03, 2007 12:05 PM
China has got its own problems. There is no democracy in China. China want to become a superpower hook or by crook. They have supressed their farmers and have started a foreign policy to counter USA in the Energy sector. They feel that they have taken the place of the erstwhile Soviet Union in confronting USA.
The way things are going , there will be a headlong clash between USA and China, esp when the Energy sector is involved. The Middle East action scene will shift to Africa , where resources are in plenty. The US and Europe will try to counter China and they started it now. The lack of democracy within China will make the western powers start something in China, which will happen. Then see the results. Compared to that if India keeps democracy and does not supress its farmers ( who are 66% of the population) it will gain in the long run. One feels that it is better to address social problems created by big corporations ( like they should involve the displaced in their fat payroll and and not hit them below their belt, which is happenning in rural China). You see , the corpns , if they take a patent, they must share the royalty with the farmers. They have to adapt to Indian conditions or you will have more suicides and slums near the MNC offices in big cities, like Dharavi, where the original slum dwellers were all farm labor from Southern Tamil Nadu.
I am a great admirer of the people like Vandna Shiva and broadly appriciate her concerns.But I lot of reservations on her attitude towards Big Retail Stores. KFC poses no threat to ordinary Dhabas.It has competition with the FOOD CHAINS like Pizza Hut,Dominos and others. I firmly belive that those who choose to have Chat never goes to such food courts. In chandigarh we have lot of Show Rooms for last number of years and at the same time we have Rehri Markets and small Booths.All are co-existing you know why? Because all of them cater the need of diffrent strata of the society. Relaince is a threat to stores like Spencers, Subhiksa and others but certainly not to vegi venders. To have imported grapes of Rs 145 per Kg certainly I will go to retail store but not for the purchasre of ordinary veggis. I don't think that the hawkers have to worry . Secondly the development is multi-dimensional.If it closes the avenue of employment in one sector it opens the same in others.Thre introduction of severage system might have un-employed number of sweepers but the introdution of electricity alomst at the same time created lot of job oppurtunity in the manufactring units and remember these job oppurtunities were more human. Let us consider all these aspects otherwise history will term us as reactionary.Should we also oppose Metro Rail because it's introduction has resulted into unemployment of Auto Drivers,Taxi Operators and Rickshaw walas.
RE:Lets be logical
by Arif on Oct 03, 2007 11:49 AM
Good thinking by Vandana Shiva, she understands the economy well. Economy thrives on business, any business is just buying and selling. In the process many people get benefitted. If all products bypass the supply chain and reach the customer, how will the economy grow. I am a software professional, I get paid 25K, but my company would be charging 100K for my services. Would that be exploitation by my company because I get paid less? By your logic if I and group of friends directly sell our our services to a USA company, even if we make twice, what is the use? If Indian company billing rates come down, then they will lay off INDIAN jobs,(DO WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT FEW JOBS LOSSES SINCE WE ARE EMPLOYED ANYWAY?) Many people will suffer as a result of few. Economy is a large entity, India is still a growing economy, the majority of people are poor, they still need small businesses to survive.
RE:Lets be logical
by Gurpreet Rangi on Oct 03, 2007 12:17 PM
what you have said is broadly right and no body can dispute it . I have a diffrent point. My 1st emphasis is can these big retail store pose any threat to small time bussiness community. secondly our enconomy rightly or wrongly(My belife if wrongly) has created diffrent class of people and they have diffrent needs and these retails are mainly for upper strata of the society. Anyhow I have one suggestion ,the govt may by specail legislation ristrict the activity of such retail to the items which hurts the intrest of small time bussiness man such as veggis, (ordinary use,pulses,atta others).Even the past we had diffrent categories such as Small , medium and large sacale.The limit of investment was there but with globolised economy these restrictions have been removed and the socailistic approched towards the economy was renounced.Even the MRTP Act was amended. Well I appriciate your concern and am happy that the people like u who are well setteled, working in IT sector and also I belive are young are atleast worried about the concenrs of working masses. My best wihes are with u Just want to say Keep it up.
RE:Lets be logical
by Satish Dewangan on Oct 03, 2007 03:16 PM
have you ever been to reliance fresh?they sell at lesser price than thella and rickshaw wallah
Let the biggies - Reliance, Bharati, walmart etc come with an assurance that they will provide maximum benifits (fair price, inputs fo farming, micro credits, subsidized seeds, info about soil/ type of crops to suited in that place, type of insurance to be obtained for losses etc) to farmets, Then Govt should consider these biggies. Also they have to assure that they do not import vegetables etc from other countires in the long run in case here if any difference relating to price arises. Also in the lines of TRAI, IRDA, there should be a regulating agency which should take care of farmers etc. Thsi could go to certain extent in saving farmers interests. Also corporate farming etc should not be encouraged. Farming by & large be left to the farmers, not that farmers are allowed to work as labourers.
It's unbelievable that personalities like Vandana shiva who some times acted as face of farmers are leading this movement.
So, far it was only brokers /traders & hawkers -all middlemen- who attacked the retailing by corporations .Farmers were conspicuous by their absence understandably because they were beneficiaries of this develeopment in market place.
Retail business by Corporations was a hope to hapless farmers at mercy of brokers traders at Mandi to get a fair deal for their produce. This would have paved way for Organised market oriented productin which would have got the farmers not only a i) ready market but also a ii) fair price and iii) prompt payment and enabled him to focus on his core business of farming . People like Vandana shiva should have led the movement to bring in closer co-operation between farmers & the corporations so as to ensure long term win-win relationship . (rather than just mutually exclusive buyer seller relation seen at present). It's the problems in the chain need to be attacked for correction and not the business . Preventing corporations from retailing could only mean closing of a great marketing avenue that would have helped farmeing community to prosper. K.P.Shenoy
1, START SELLING VEGS AND MILK ON RICKSHAWS AND THELLAS... STOP SELLING IN SUPERSTORES AND SHOPS..
2, KEEP SUCKING THE BLOOD OF FARMERS.. DONT GIVE THEM THEIR DUES.. LET THEM COMMIT SUICIDE...
3, KEEP THE EXPOLITATION OF SMALL BUSINESSES GOING ON..
DONT LET THE COUNTRY PROGRESS.. THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE PROTESTING ARE THE ONES WHO GO 'WOW....'AND GA GA WHEN THEY SEE THE CLEAN MARKETS AND GOOD QUALITY FOOD OF FOREIGN COUNTRIES IN MOVIES.. AND ASPIRE TO GO THERE..
but their own selfish interest makes them oppose it in their own motherland...
