milind is correct. in order to maintain unity in HINDUS, upper caste needs to accept 50% quota for the rest. upper caste is 12% population so it is OK. otherwise lower caste might turn into mulla and then you know the result.. i am also upper caste, but i am willing to make this concession. i request, my fellow hindus to join and start a chain of this message. those upper caste who oppose reservation, maybe they are PAKI AGENTS.. to cause bitterness in lower caste hindus..beware of them. A TRUE HINDU WILL ALWAYS SUPPORT HIS LOWER CASTE BROTHER
RE:it is OK
by Sandeep on Aug 11, 2007 03:40 AM
For one, forward castes are 25-38% but no one has tracked that accurately recently. Nor is there clear data on how many OBCs are there. OBCs can also vary by state. Best way is to do away with caste system gradually and not accentuate it. Mayawati's scheme atleast looks better then what idiotic Arjun would like to do. The flip side is that it might open new avenues for babus to harrass industrialists.
RE:it is OK
by nitn on Aug 11, 2007 06:12 AM
if no one has tracked it accurately, then how did you arrive at the figure??? abe kuch soch samajh ke mola karo bhaiy
RE:it is OK
by satya pal on Aug 11, 2007 10:30 AM
these persons getting job in private sector,with out training will make industry incompetent.the so called sc/st and obc first get education and skilled job training.look towards india's history.divide and rule.this gimmick by mayawati is cheapest trick to reserve vote banks for future.coming events cast their shadow.india can never progress and be competent as long we have leaders like mayawati,laloo and arjun singh.we are not against jobs to sc/st/obs.let govt.first set up the example.mayawati was never taught by sc/st.she should learn from this.open schools for sc/st.first provide water,sewerage,eletricity and education at each village of u.p.people will recognize mayawati as good administrator.do some thing whole india should copy it.60 years after independence,still majority of sc/st and obc are illetrate.do some thing in this field.no body will deprive an sc/st from a job,provided he has the skill.
I am from a Kshatriya Maratha family. Neither a Brahmin nor OBC/SC. In general I am against reservations since it is demeaning and promotes inefficiency.
However in the interest of unity amongst us Hindus, I am willing to accept reservations. The only thing I do not like about this is that this could set a precedent.
Today Mayawati says that it is voluntary. Tomorrow if someone invests in UP to start an industry without the subsidies and then she says now it is compulsary, what happens ? Further other states may start adopting variations of this with varying percentages.
An ideal situation will be if there is no caste system. Everyone should be treated born equal and given equal opportunities to education and jobs. We need to unite people. Reservations tend to divide people and that makes me uncomfortable.
RE:Setting a Precedent
by champ champq on Aug 11, 2007 02:31 AM
...and Mr Great Reformist...how do u think we can create a class/caste less society...a feet humanity has been trying to achieve for time immemorial...reservation is not the best solution....but it is the best available solution...feel free to suggest a PRACTICAL/WORKEABLE alternative...i am all ears
RE:Setting a Precedent
by Milind on Aug 13, 2007 07:05 PM
Thanks for referring to me as Great Reformist.
Your question has been aptly answered by Mr.Rajindranath Nambiar and Mr.Jaswant Chauhan.
You can put all the policies to make the backward caste prosper. Maybe it will work in the next 50 years. But what is important that they feel they are not backward. How can they feel they are forward if their birth certificate says they are backward. How will the forward castes accept them as forward since SC/ST/OBC have taken away seats without merit.
It is important for the forward caste to realize that they are not forward simply by treating someone backward. This sense of false superiority must be abolished in the minds of children by parents.
By the same logic, parents of SC/ST/OBC must remove this feeling from their children that their great-great grandfather was mis-treated so you are backward and need reservations. Work hard and you will prosper.
RE:Setting a Precedent
by rajindranath nambiar on Aug 11, 2007 02:57 AM
Let me see if I can give you a practical/workable alternatives Mr.Smart Guy! First, remove the caste based reservation. Secondly, implement a reservation for people who are economically backward. Three, reservations must be available only in the form of fee waiver/concession and not for the seats or jobs,this will ensure that people who get the benefits of reservation will not misuse it. Four, totally abolish the question about caste from all applications in the country. Five, implement common civil code. When these five things are implemented then we can discuss about the future implementations.
RE:Setting a Precedent
by jaswant chauhan on Aug 11, 2007 02:59 AM
Why not !! Get out of the well, and see the world outside. There are people feel pride in saying my caste/relegion is Japanese not like Budha/Islam what to talk of a caste. Its compltely possible to creat a society without caste system.
will a foreign company recruit a reserved guy who got 60 marks in its exam or a general guy who got 80 marks. If the govt makes these kind of decisions then all the foreign companies will run away and the Indian private companies will invest in other countries. In the end evry body will beg . so guys look for greener shores around the world instead of rotting in the mud .
RE:Will a foreign company take 60 marks reserved guy or 80 marks general guy
by champ champq on Aug 11, 2007 02:34 AM
its time u fly and come to here JET...if u don't know most Western countries, including US/Australia etc..have US job reservation...perhaps u have to fly to outer space...it looks all muddy on earth
RE:Will a foreign company take 60 marks reserved guy or 80 marks general guy
by jaswant chauhan on Aug 11, 2007 02:56 AM
Here we are discussing CASTE based reservation. There no reservation system in US/Aus/Japan or anywhere based on the caste.
RE:Will a foreign company take 60 marks reserved guy or 80 marks general guy
by stone cold on Aug 11, 2007 04:17 AM
JET IS UR FATHER FOREIGH KA OR U DONT KNOW WHO UR FATHER IS ....IDIOT ITS OUR SOCIAL PROBLEM ....LOOK AT THE MOST BOSSES IN US, VERY FEW HAVE STUDIED ENGINEERING
As a owner of a company will u take a less skilled reserve category guy or a skilled guy. Instead the govt has to provide good education and training so that poor SC/STs can compete with all others . Reservations will always have flaws. This decision will start a bad move and all other dirty politicians will announce reservations in private sector also. This will lead to total collapse of our economy. I dont think any of the foreign companies will take less skilled reserved people, instead they will just pack off leaving us to beg again.
These politicians are seems to be oblivious to the globalization and the options available for Indian MNC's to outsource to other countries like Mexico, Eastern europe or China for that matter if they can find talented and cheap workers there in the IT area or in manufacturing sector, if the stupid power hungry Indian politicians want to shove restrictive labor or reservation policies down the throat of these Indian MNC's. For good or (very little) bad the days of License- Raj are over, so if doing business in India becomes non competative then there is a "world" out there waiting to welcome Indian rupee investment in their countries. It is almost moronic to try to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. And that is what these Indian politicians like Mayawati are trying hard to do. When Indian companies are facing shortage of skilled workers you don't need reservations, you need better educated and trained manpower. So do work hard at achieving that rather than try to create quotas for jobs which will not exist any more when the Indian companies leave for other states (without Mayawati's) or other countries.
I read this somewhere in the discussion board and presenting it for you. this is fact that some indians are working hard to make this country great but our shameless and corrupt leaders donating our hard earnings(In Form Of taxes and other charges & Fines) to Lazy idiots with no planning and savings as reservations to get their votes and dividing into so called communities.
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks the ant's a fool and laughs & dances & plays the summer away. Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.
NDTV, BBC, CNN show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.
The World is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be that this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?
Arundhati Roy stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house. Medha Patkar goes on a fast along with other grasshoppers demanding that grasshoppers be relocated to warmer climates during winter.
Amnesty International and Koffi Annan criticize the Indian Government for not upholding the fundamental rights of the grasshopper. The Internet is flooded with online petitions seeking support to the grasshopper (many promising H
RE:India is still a developing country.....
by maddi gupta on Aug 11, 2007 01:57 AM
Contd... The Internet is flooded with online petitions seeking support to the grasshopper (many promising Heaven and Everlasting Peace for prompt support as against the wrath of God for non-compliance) .
Opposition MPs stage a walk out
Left parties call for "Bharat Bandh" in West Bengal and Kerala demanding a Judicial Enquiry. CPM in Kerala immediately passes a law preventing Ants from working hard in the heat so as to bring about equality of poverty among ants and grasshopper Lalu Prasad allocates one free coach to Grasshoppers on all Indian Railway Trains, aptly named as the 'Grasshopper Rath'.
Finally, the Judicial Committee drafts the Prevention of Terrorism Against Grasshoppers Act [POTAGA]", with effect from the beginning of the winter.
Arjun Singh makes Special Reservation for Grass Hopper in educational Institutions & in Govt. Services.
The ant is fined for failing to comply with POTAGA and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the Government and handed over to the grasshopper in a ceremony covered by NDTV .
Arundhati Roy calls it "a triumph of justice". Lalu calls it 'Socialistic Justice'. CPM calls it the 'revolutionary resurgence of the downtrodden'
Koffi Annan invites the grasshopper to address the UN General Assembly.
Many years later...The ant has since migrated to the US and set up a multi billion dollar company in silicon valley.100s of grasshoppers still die
RE:RE:India is still a developing country.....
by maddi gupta on Aug 11, 2007 01:58 AM
contd.... Many years later...The ant has since migrated to the US and set up a multi billion dollar company in silicon valley.100s of grasshoppers still die of starvation despite reservation somewhere in India ?2020AC?.
As a result loosing lot of hard working ants and feeding the grasshoppers,
RE:India is still a developing country.....
by champ champq on Aug 11, 2007 02:39 AM
though at certain level i agree with u Maddi... but what u r saying is over simplification...
There is no point in complaining about imperfections in reservation system. WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT ! We are not at a point in time where we can rid of this system. There are lots of people in India who could benefit from this system. The best we can do is to make amends in this system to that it helps the truly underprivileged amongst us.
There is no point in complaining about how our Constitution did not implement a fair system. They did what they best could. It is now up to us as a society to take that Constitution forward, make amendments and keep the reservation as fair as possible.
Mayawati's proposed solution is in fact a very good one. She's at least taking into account the economically weak people that could be present in FCs too. At the same time, she's proposing a "VOLUNTARY" quota system in private sector where it's completely a matter of choice for companies to implement it or not. If they want subsidies, they have to implement it, otherwise not !
Bravo Mayawati ! India needs more leaders like you who can make inclusive policies instead of divisive or exclusive policies.
