Reading the comments below, I note that the ills of Northern India are identified as casteism (within Hindus) and communalism (mostly between Hindus and muslims). So, this makes me ask: Why are intra-Hindu casteism and religious communalism independently and together such immediate issues in Northern India? Afterall, if relatively recent (i.e. modern) thinking is the cure to all social ills, the orthodox adherence of Hinduism is far more prevalent in Southern India? Here's what I conclude: There are substantial reasons for religious communalism i.e. the Hindu-muslim divide in Northern India, given the history of islamic intrusion in the subcontinent. And, the reason why casteism is such a political issue in Northern India lies once again in the demographic numbers. You see, numerically, the southerners are mostly of the non-forward caste. Since, in the present vote-based, socio-political setup, the power is in their hands, there is no scope for tension between forward and non-forward caste. Similarly, with the population predominantly Hindu in the Southern part of the country, there is once again no scope for tension. On the other hand, Northern India has substantial population of both parties: non-insignificant muslim population as well as substantial Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas, as also Jains and Sikhs. Thus, we find a cauldron with the ready ingredients for a forward caste-non forward caste debate in Northern states. So also, the dharmic-abrahamic conflagration. QE
Re: North=Muscle; South=Intellect; Alone=Defeat; Together=Victory
by Sameer Bhagwat on Mar 22, 2011 01:37 AM
the reason why south indian states came up is because the educated upper class of south india helped their down trodden brothers to come up through education - eg most early communist leaders in Kerala who brought about social changes were from high castes. Similarly in Tamil nadu.
On the contrary, high caste hindus in North ensured that the lower casts never come up and kept them down - the result is now for everybody to see.
It seems nothing has changed in India in last 200 years! People can still divide us and rule! These sort of studies are just to slow down our growth by promoting the infighting, such as taking place among various people commenting on this article. Why cannot we simply take India as India? When will we learn? Seems never. Go ahead all you guys from so called north, south, east, west...keep fighting. India will never become a developed nation.....thanks to you guys.
Re: Same old story - DIVIDE AND RULE
by The Democracy on Mar 20, 2011 07:47 AM
Totally agree with you.
I wish more people of India could understand the "DIVIDE AND RULE" policy of west.
India was divided earlier but Indians just don't learn from experience. So, many dumb people.
Just scroll down and see how some idi0ts are fighting over north / south, languages etc. These morons just need a point and they are ready to fight and divide India.
Nicholas Eberstadt is just trying to seed a slow poisoning process called "DIVIDE AND RULE". And most dumb Indians will not understand it.
You know what this is the result of improper and crap education system of India. One can get a Masters degree by memorizing books but until one can think on his own, that education is totally useless. Indian education (even in IITs and IIMs) was designed to memorize books, it wasn't designed to make people "think".
Re: Re: Same old story - DIVIDE AND RULE
by Hemant on Mar 22, 2011 01:48 AM
Agreed.... all south Indians please agree with this and let not think like this stupid study.
While Chandrababu naidu gave a new direction to AP wherein, today US is now flooded with tsunami of Gulti guys, on the other hand Mulla-yam, Lallu and person like Mayawati even having absolutely majority made sure that those area never come out of poverty.
the difference is vision in leadership. We need Modi & Nitish Kumar in north.
India is not only divided in two sections but it is acutally divided in 1000 sections, each having its own perception about India. No wonder the west call india as exotic country with extremes.
Re: Chandrababu made Hyd'bd US; Mullu-Lallu-Maya made North Afri
by UP Guy on Mar 19, 2011 08:38 PM
Chandrababu Naidu has been defeated by his own people. Telugu guys in the USA are doing huge frauds, and recently animal tags were put on their feet. And they also produced RamLingRaju.
Re: Re: Chandrababu made Hyd'bd US; Mullu-Lallu-Maya made North
by ashutosh gupta on Mar 19, 2011 10:01 PM
Thanks to such mentality like yours, North India especially UP & Bihar will never come out of its problem.
BTW i am also from UP and presently in US. sitting here i feel so helpless looking at the condition of my state. But what one can do when people like you are the front runners in my state. Good Luck.
Re: Re: Chandrababu made Hyd'bd US; Mullu-Lallu-Maya made North
by ashutosh gupta on Mar 19, 2011 10:01 PM
Thanks to such mentality like yours, North India especially UP & Bihar will never come out of its problem.
BTW i am also from UP and presently in US. sitting here i feel so helpless looking at the condition of my state. But what one can do when people like you are the front runners in my state. Good Luck.
Re: Re: Re: Chandrababu made Hyd'bd US; Mullu-Lallu-Maya made No
by UP Guy on Mar 20, 2011 07:34 AM
Its good that you are in the US, because you have a negative mentality and a depressive personality. Hope you are happy there. But don't you know that Bihar recently recorded highest growth rate in India. And UP also has been consistently recording 7-8% growth for past several years. Don't go by what is reported in the media...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Chandrababu made Hyd'bd US; Mullu-Lallu-Maya mad
by ashutosh gupta on Mar 20, 2011 08:12 PM
Dear UP Guy, first of all reveal your identity. Barking in disguise doesn't help.
Secondly, I don't know where you live in UP.
At least I can say about my hometown Varanasi and I know completely what is the state of progress in Varanasi.
Being on national & international tourist road, it lacks even one flyover and forget about cleanliness part becoz it is famous for "banarasi paan".
I don't know which part of UP's development you are talking about and vouching for it.
I guess you are somewhat connected to "Bhenji" that is why you see lot of shine within UP. Good Luck.
Re: Re: Chandrababu made Hyd'bd US; Mullu-Lallu-Maya made North
by ashutosh gupta on Mar 19, 2011 10:01 PM
Thanks to such mentality like yours, North India especially UP & Bihar will never come out of its problem.
BTW i am also from UP and presently in US. sitting here i feel so helpless looking at the condition of my state. But what one can do when people like you are the front runners in my state. Good Luck.
India Wheat Production - top five states State 5yr* Avg. Prod % Uttar Pradesh 34.6% Punjab 20.7% Haryana 11.5% Madhya Pradesh 10.6% Rajasthan 8.7%
See, above there is no contribution from Maharashtra or South. And West Bengal, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Punjab, Orissa and Bihar are the major rice producing states of India. Even in rice production, contribution of Maharashtra and South is negligible. It is the misfortune of North India that we have to sell agricultural produce cheap to states like Maharashtra and South. If we could sell this in international market, we could earn huge foreign exchange, and poverty in North will be wiped out. This is pure bad luck for North India.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hindi heartland as an agricultural nation wil
by ashutosh gupta on Mar 19, 2011 07:44 PM
Dear Mr. UP Guy, the issue here is not agriculture or industry. the problem is mindset. North is struggling still with issues of Casteism and Religionalism.
The leadership over there is exploiting these issues for their own advantage. Its all matter of leadership: Naidu made AP into US; and our own Mullu-Lullu-Maya are trying their best to make North into Africa.
The article firstly has to be taken in the right spirit.
Now the study made by Eberstadt is very elaborate but by going deeper we will find the inequalities not only lie within the North & South but even in the southern states only the metro cities and important towns can boast of good education if you look at villages they cant say the same.
While the educational thrust is in getting better jobs abroad there is no parallel education on building skills to take care of indian requirement. this is where china is better. A skilled person is no use to this country if he is employed abroad and does nothing for the country. all this talk of inclusive growth is eyewash to get commitments from industrialists to spend on infrastructure building which again the babus can eat.
Rather than questioning the study itself we should take it as a warning and ensure that remedial steps are taken. tage with Governments in Democracy is that when they put up a vision for 20 years they are sure that they may not be in power for atleast 5 years and then can blame that five for years not fulfilling the set tasks. The big advan
Re: Hindi is dear to us Hindi speakers, like it or not!
by UP Guy on Mar 19, 2011 04:10 PM
In North, we have a feeling that Hindi is being prevented from being the national language of India to accomodate non-Hindi speakers. That is not acceptable to NOrthies. Because most the education in Hindi north is done in Hindi medium, whether it is UP, Bihar, Rajasthan, Himachal, Delhi, MP, Jharkhand or any other Hindi state. Recently, HImachal banned any English correspondence related to state government affairs. That law is actually even more strict than UP and Bihar. In NOrth pro-Hindi feeling is very strong, and we would like to live in united India, but not at the cost of Hindi being the national language.
Re: Re: Hindi is dear to us Hindi speakers, like it or not!
by Suprasanna Bhat on Mar 19, 2011 04:19 PM
Assuming that u r very much interested in dividing the nation and tht u want to develop the agriculture in northern part...THEN WTF! r u doing here instead of ploughing ur agriculture land in PAKISTAN.
Re: Re: Re: Hindi is dear to us Hindi speakers, like it or not!
by UP Guy on Mar 19, 2011 04:38 PM
I am interested in the agriculture in Hindi heartland and not in Pak. My native language is Hindi, not Urdu. My favorite poet is MaithiliSharanGupt and not FaizAhmadFaiz.
Re: Re: Hindi is dear to us Hindi speakers, like it or not!
by Cool Mahesh on Mar 19, 2011 04:26 PM
Hindi is not at all a national language. It is just a language of northern India. We South Indians will never accept Hindi as a national language.
Re: Re: Re: Hindi is dear to us Hindi speakers, like it or not!
by Cool Mahesh on Mar 19, 2011 04:34 PM
Hindi is not at all spoken by 50% of the people. So it cannot be a national language.
D. Goel pkl. afternoon 3.15, pm, Saturday, March 19,2011. Aziz Haniffa summarising Absdet Einstadt's Demographic studies of South and North India discovers that while generally In south India theeducated and skilledpeople areavailable andare likely to be providing technical Man-power for speedy industrial proliferation in next few Decades almost leading to Growth and prosperity to the levels of current incomes of booming economies of South korea, there is completely different Demographic profile, in north. The population of youth of course is likely to be very high, and illiteracy and education shall still be out.This could lead to unacceptable falling of industrial skills and non-availability of technicians to man any upsurge of Industrial Growth.While mere 3rs are not enough,the right monitoring of Skill accumulation first need to be identified andin targeted Polytechniques the the Rural youth is drilled to gain skills in ordered time-Frame ie 2025 generation.Thisshould be political imperative for all indians in North India for good.D. Goel
Re: Lack of Employable Youth , what kind of Skill Cultivation
by Ashwin on Mar 19, 2011 04:07 PM
Well Goel, accepted what India should do but who has to do? Do you think, our Planning Commission has any PLAN except COMMISSIONS FROM PLANS? The main problem is that our Ministers, Politicians & Babus themselves are clueless about what has to be done & hence they only spend their time in all kinds of bhavans (Nirvachan - No vachan, Yojana - No Yochana, Paryavaran - No Paryavaran etc) & take their Salaries & written & unwritten Perks & spend upto their retirement & get posted as Advisors & make more money. Do you know even if Govt opens up as many Polytech colleges as the NO. of High Schools OR half of them, to train the Youth force, where from do you get teaching staff, to teach in these colleges? Indian planners have shit not only in their aas holes but also in their brains OR only in brains. They do not know A,B,Cs of development except their personal development. Even if Colleges & Teachers are available, there are no roads to reach, no money for equipment, no fee money with the students, no industry prepared to give them Apprenticeship & lot many problems. So let Indian Ministers & Planning Commission Members keep dreaming of INDIA SHINING 2020, THEN 2030 & THEN 2050. BY THE TIME WE REACH 2020, IT WILL BE 2120 and we can keep day dreaming but more important, keep date with latest for those periods like 102G, 103S & Ol
