If it is against cast, i welcome it fully But if it is just against a cast census alone, well, do I need to say more..?
Also just curious to know, if the anti census commentators here would agree for a ban on cast identities and cast wise social groupings and cast wise matrimonial ads..?
Re: Is this campaign against cast or against cast census..?
by chintan jhunjhunwala on May 27, 2010 11:51 AM
the ban would be welcome as it would remove the stigma of having a name which signifys division of people.but it will take decades for it to be wiped out completely as even without caste names the parents are sure toask about the background while fixing marriages.
In America there is no system in place today that forces people to remain separate or keeps one class subservient to another. If you were born the son of a street sweeper, but excelled, you could become a doctor or lawyer or some celebrity or entrepreneur - and at the same time you would be fully accepted by your peers.
Not so in India. The Caste system freezes everyone in place. It is extremely difficult - almost impossible - for someone from the lowest Caste to rise in education and social status.
A Dalit would never be allowed to marry into one of the higher castes and would never be accepted as an equal. And for a Dalit to make it into bollywood, medical school or operate a restaurant or become a priest in a temple or become a member of high society in India is very rare indeed.
You can move from one class to another in America(e.g Obama became President of USA) You must not move from one caste to another in your life time in India(e.g. Ambedkar could not become Prime Minister of India)
Re: And
by Pranab M on Jun 07, 2010 02:08 PM
We need subcaste based census , subcaste people shd be counted.
Time to file a PIL in supreme court to ensure counting each subcaste population and reservation should be provided based on subcaste , in OBC (few dominant caste like meena ,etc) are eating whole of the reservation pie , which is unacceptable , gurjars should get separate pie of reservation so that they are not afraid of meenas ,etc .
Re: And
by rohit sharma on May 27, 2010 01:08 PM
Late Ambedkar could not become PM of india but he was the father of creation of indian constitution and one of the most important person at that time..there were many deserving non-dalits too who could not become the PM of india. Dont mix things.. dalits are rising and will keep on rising. It took time since they were poor and underprivileged by century of oppression by a selected elite of society by misusing religion and orthodox behavior by not changing with times.
Hi, 1. when government has taken decision to do census on caste basis I think such type of “Indian” movement is encouraged by those who are not getting reservations but those who are getting reservations are certainly going to write their caste as well as their income to press for reservation & certainly this census is making room for “Mandal” like division in society. 2. caste basis census is certainly an evil but if carried out do not shy from it, I am in firm belief that upper caste should write not only its caste but also the income as well to provide necessary data to prove that they are not better placed then SC/ST & OBC & if they will shy from it they are making a blunder & loosing an opportunity which can not be make good decades to come. 3. Before last year I visited Lucknow dental college & I found there selection list displayed on notice board & I found out of 40 candidates selected 8 were Muslims which is about 20% of total selection, a recent survey of government of India shows that 31.2 % Muslims in India living below poverty line while the national figure is 37.2 % which reflects the false propaganda of Muslim leaders about the poor condition of Muslims. 4. therefore I believe that all community must participate in caste based census to show pro caste leaders about the condition of Indian masses that their conditions are almost sim
Re: I am in favour to write your caste.
by ravishankarsingh on May 26, 2010 09:00 PM
4. therefore I believe that all community must participate in caste based census to show pro caste leaders about the condition of Indian masses that their conditions are almost similar of whatever community he belongs it is only politicians are igniting caste for vote bank politics.
Re: I am in favour to write your caste.
by Rajiv Ranjan on May 27, 2010 12:20 PM
Sorry Dear,
I m not agree with your sentence. u r giving the example of dental collage, but u r not seeing that some where there is 90 % muslims and 10% other cast. I don't want to say about any particular cast. I only want to say that we should not divide a whole community "INDIAN". If any guy have capability to qualify in any part of competition then he must qualify, either he/she is Hindu, Muslim or belongs to any other cast.
If we will do like this then after 25 to 30 years we will c that India is divided into lots of small small parts, some has been occupied by Muslim some by Hindu some by sikh some by Cristian. and after that also Hindu divide his parts into Lots of small peaces, muslim divide his parts into small peaces and this will continue until unless we will not stop us, and giving some stupides to do the Divide & Rule policy.
If I am wrong anywhere or my words hurts any one then I am very very sorry, but lastly I want to say that these words come from the core of my hurt.
Look at the hypocarecy of India. Constitution says no discrimination against caste creed, religion, gender. Laughable facts are below. Resevation for women. reservation for religious minority. reservation for so called backwardness. India is the only country where people shout from the roof top, that they are backward. If percentage of reservation fixed (infactincreasing) why not number of beneficiaries be known? Rediff is old pseudo.
Re: Re: Its every where.
by neelam on May 27, 2010 01:45 PM
Read my last line, why not number of beneficiaries to be known. Means number of all caste should be known.
Why do we need caste csensus - only for deciding reservations?? The caste consensus would again institutionalize the very caste system we want to get rid of. Reservation system is perpetuating the caste system. Reservation system, if at all, should be on the basis of economic status and not social status. The malaise is two sided - it builds up the resentment in the so called upper caste people because of erosion of opportunities and it attaches firmly the stigma of being a lower catse on the so called lower castes. The caste-based reservation system is morally degrading, socially divisive and economically ill-advisable for the country. Caste system is the worst form of racism. Then why talk caste sensus?
Irrespective of whether caste is an evilor not, caste-based census is mandatory for the simple reason that many schemes of our government are based on caste. For example, reservations to SC, ST and 27% OBC.
Detailed caste-wise data is necessary. All castes including the so-called forward castes must be counted and the backwardness/forwardness of each caste must be evaluated every 10 years - 2011, 2021,2031 and so on.
Let us check whether quotas are useful or not. Let us throw them out if they are useless.
Backwardness is a relative term. Let us study the status of every caste and really check which caste is forward and which caste is backward.
If you want to eliminate caste, first eliminate it from the Constitution of India and from various schemes of our Government. The society will reform itself, if you reform the Constitution and government policies.
Re: Caste-based census is a must
by iota on May 26, 2010 10:32 AM
Just because RAPE happens, you are going to go around asking people questions about RAPE?
Re: Caste-based census is a must
by Manjunath krishna on May 26, 2010 10:47 AM
Mr Reddy ,eliminating the caste from constitution & schemes is not a right thing.If you look at the history from Hindu rule 11th century ,Mughal & later british there was no mention of rights or schems.So caste was not eliminated from society since thousands of years.What remained permanently & will remain in future also, who ever may be the rulers is caste.80% of people live in villages with an exeption to few states majority are hindus and backward castes. This is not a monolith division ,but made of thousands of social divisions called castes.They have very similar economic political,social,educational profile. so backward castes people represention in our democracracy is inadequiet.Therefore caste census is the only hope of majority to know where they stand in terms of education,employment, commerce,trade ,social & political.
Re: Re: Caste-based census is a must
by rajiv ranjan on May 27, 2010 12:37 PM
Dear Mr. Sameek Ghosh & Mr. Manjunath Krishna
I am not agree with yr words, we are always doing the un-necessary things and spending our valuable time & Money. if we spend the same for solving the illiteracy problem & give our total faith toward the basic problem of our country which is backward thinking which never goes through reservation. THese problem only short out through a perfect education policy which is stil not good in our country.
So, please help the India & don't divide our own country "INDIA"
Re: Re: Re: Caste-based census is a must
by Manjunath krishna on May 29, 2010 12:55 PM
Rajiv, i can understand your concern.i remember a bible verses"devil cite the script for it`s purpose".All of those use internet are literates and mostly represent not > 20% of population only. To understand the realities needs elevation of person through knowledge on the countries population social, ecomonic& educational employment profile. You find backwardness of certain section of people is not always related to economic reasons,it is the social system of bias,steriotype, prejudice ,persecution underestimating ones ability,denial of oppertunity& so on having it`s roots in castes system.From the begining of known indian history,there was no level playing field for all.I do agree that caste factor lost it`s total relevance from public places, but mind set moved and established in public offices & educational institutions.Talk some thing good about a able but low caste person,and observe your own friends for changes to happen in their face, the laungauge or body language, you have the answer.There is no point in living in the world of denial,it only serve the purpose of minority dominants.If we want make our country stonger, we have to speed up democratic process of inclusive growth but it needs introsection of reality.Reason for the hurdles is the spirling competition put up by the majority poor.Caste provided tremendous oppertunity in all social,educational ,employment ,trade & commerce t
I think, if we stop asking/noting caste in the forms, school certificates, etc...people will gradually stop thinking about caste...politicians should be banned to speak on caste lines...that would provide a gr8 relief
Re: Caste .....
by Vipen Mahendru on May 25, 2010 07:14 AM
Yes, its a good idea and our judiciary can play a role in curbing the caste politics which is the greatest evil in our country--Vipen Mahendru
