When Govt cannot take care of its citizens.....like FOOD, CLOTH, JOB AND SECURITY..........it does not have any rights to sterlise anyone......and i dont support Varun on this issue.....coming to military service.....i accept this point....however......he should set example.by serving military service.....
Re: Sterlisation - Bull Shit
by TheBestMan InAll on May 09, 2009 10:35 PM
I Cannot Completely Agree with Varun Gandhi.
I have a alternative Suggestion.
Let there be complete Freedom to have any number of Children.
Let there be All kind of Subsidies to All people.
But, Let the Subsidies, including on petrol/diesel, be Only to those who have one Child as a person.
That is, Man or Woman - with any number of Spouses in their Life - Should have only one Child in Life to have any kind of Subsidy or Favourable benefit from the Govt.
Think about this Alternative proposition which would then control population with a very Humane Face.
The Question is why should the Exchequer take More than half of the burden of those, who are only doubling every 20 years ??????
Re: Re: Sterlisation - Bull Shit
by arun bn on May 09, 2009 10:39 PM
Sir.......then logically think.....what about economy.....with less people.......you cannot develop.....population is good for the country.......good for growth......
Re: Re: Re: Sterlisation - Bull Shit
by TheBestMan InAll on May 09, 2009 10:45 PM
Use your brain please. Population is good as a market for Economy to grow, Only When there are Hardworking people who create Wealth as Well as Spend their Wealth.
If the Rate of Growth of people who live on Subsidies is double that of Those who Create Wealth, The Economy will Collapse like hell, And Even the Society will with Anarchy.
The Growing Crime and Crime against Women in our Society Today is the same symptom Which is going to Grow much faster in the Future.
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. 4:34
They question thee (O Muhammad) concerning menstruation. Say: It is an illness, so let women alone at such times and go not in unto them till they are cleansed. And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah hath enjoined upon you. 2:222
The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment. 24:2
Re: Verses used in the film Submission
by Sameer on May 09, 2009 10:29 PM
Men are given the responsibility to protect women. Men have been given more physical strength than woman or do you disagree with this too ? And unless you are willing to reward your wife for being cosy with your neighbor I think its fair to be angry with an adultress woman or man.
As far as mensuration is concerned the translation does not accurately capture the word mentioned in the quran. Most authentic Mohd. Asad transation says
2:222 (Asad) AND THEY will ask thee about [woman's] monthly courses. Say: "It is a vulnerable condition. Keep, therefore, aloof from women during their monthly courses, and do not draw near unto them until they are cleansed; and when they are cleansed, go in unto them as God has bidden you to do." [209] Verily, God loves those who turn unto Him in repentance [210] and He loves those who keep themselves pure.
Unless you want to have fun with your wife during her periods, i think its decency not to copulate till they are out of their periods.
Re: Re: Verses used in the film Submission
by starlee on May 09, 2009 10:35 PM
Sameer mensuration is given to ladies by god isit not ?? then why 1slam say during mensuration a lady is impure ? isn't that your above verse means as well ?
Re: Re: Re: Verses used in the film Submission
by JGN on May 09, 2009 10:39 PM
mensuration is an essential biological process for re-production. How come the "most merciful creator" did not understand the importance of that???
Re: Re: Re: Re: Verses used in the film Submission
by Sameer on May 09, 2009 10:42 PM
Well the creator has not asked the man to stop mensuration, only stopped man from copulating while woman is in her periods. Its basic decency. Religion or no religion how can any man copulate with a woman in her periods? Unless JGN you are a perv or the highest order.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Verses used in the film Submission
by JGN on May 09, 2009 10:45 PM
Sameer, what about "cleaning with mud" if you touch a woman before prayer if no water is available??? So woman are impure than "dirt"????
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Verses used in the film Submission
by Sameer on May 09, 2009 10:48 PM
I dont remember reading that in Qraan. Correct me if I am wrong. If I have missed it I will read about it.
Re: Re: Re: Verses used in the film Submission
by Sameer on May 09, 2009 10:39 PM
Well she is not impure no way. But only a perv would consider copulating with a woman in mensuration.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Verses used in the film Submission
by starlee on May 09, 2009 10:43 PM
i am not talkin about that , i've heard from my muzzi friends that if a lady is mensurating she can't fast / pray as it's considered impure . Does 1slam teaches this ? also in one of your post you said hinduism promotes casteism , can you prove it ? WHY ARE YOU AGAINST YOUR OWN CULTURE
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Verses used in the film Submission
by Sameer on May 09, 2009 10:47 PM
I can certainly prove it by citing h1ndu scriptures. But unless you want to force me to do it, I am not interested in h1ndu bashing. I think most h1ndus are good people like most xtians or mus1ims. Prayer in Islam is a physical process. One has to bend in front of the lord. Women are exempted from obligations of prayers because of their physical needs. They can spend all their time resting.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Verses used in the film Submission
by starlee on May 09, 2009 10:50 PM
Sameer go ahead , prove your allegations then i shall stop .Where in H1ndu scriptures is it mentioned about casteism
During the formative days of India after Indepndence, JRD tata along with other influential and visionary people suggested Nehru ( the then PM) to have some means of population control because they very clearly saw what is coming. We are good at producing babies like rabbits in dozens. But Nehru wanted more hands to work ( and forgot about the mouths that come with the hands to feed). After Indira Gandhi took over, it was a full blown populist state. No controls and no checks except a very brief Sanjay gandhi regime. From a meagre 30 crores in the 50s to 120 crores in 2009 - record four fold production.
Re: Four fold from 30 crores to 120 crores.
by Lopesh S on May 09, 2009 10:32 PM
Look how china controlled with stringent measures - ofcourse congress is not ruling there
Re: Four fold from 30 crores to 120 crores.
by TheBestMan InAll on May 09, 2009 10:32 PM
I Cannot Completely Agree with Varun Gandhi.
I have a alternative Suggestion.
Let there be complete Freedom to have any number of Children.
Let there be All kind of Subsidies to All people.
But, Let the Subsidies, including on petrol/diesel, be Only to those who have one Child as a person.
That is, Man or Woman - with any number of Spouses in their Life - Should have only one Child in Life to have any kind of Subsidy or Favourable benefit from the Govt.
Think about this Alternative proposition which would then control population with a very Humane Face.
Ever since the Age of Enlightenment in Europe in the 18th century, thinking people had expected reason to replace religion in the public sphere. Indeed, this rational attitude underpinned both the French Declaration of the Rights of Man, and the American Declaration of Independence. But as events since then have proved, man remains an irrational being, repeatedly going against his own self-interest to satisfy primitive impulses of revenge, lust and greed. Numerous wars have been fought, and innumerable people killed, in the name of nationalism, religion and honour.
U havent answered any of my questions. maybe u're too busy to read . let me ask u again
1. Can you prove that Hinduism foster hate/division between humans ?What if i say i can prove that all abrahamic religions one way or other foster hate and division ?
2. What is jihad ? Why 1slamists are killing innocents saying its jihad ?
3. Why in 1slam women has no power ? whereas in Hinduism women is first
4.according to you what a pure musl1m should be like ?
5. in 1slam what is the legal age for a girl to get married ? would you disagree with me if i say it's 8
Be careful when u answer me as i've read quran (arabic version,un-edited) and bible and i am able and willing to spell out verse by verse to prove my stand .
Re: Sameer ; Answer me If you DARE
by starlee on May 09, 2009 10:30 PM
Ok so if men and women are equal in front of god WHY there are different set of rules for men and women ??? If GOD can see us as equal why can't 1slam ? doesnt that statement itself prove that there are somethings in 1slam that just doesn't make sense ???You said killing one innocent is like killing humanity yet WHY muzzies (say in pakistan)promote jihad ? So in your view are they muzzies ? And just now u replied to me saying that if a h1ndu father rapes his daughter bcoz a saint said so "IT is H1ndu1sm's fault" ..so isit appropriate for me to say say SINCE 1SMLAMISTS ARE KILLING INNOCENTs THAT'S 1SLAM'S FAULT ????One last question to you if u have a daughter what age should she be marrying at ?
Re: Sameer ; Answer me If you DARE
by New York on May 09, 2009 10:30 PM
1. Hindu parents covertly brainwash their children to coerce other kids as per CASTE hierarchies. 2. Jihad is history. 3. Check enDOTwikipediaDOTorg/wiki/Kamakhya_Temple 4. An altruist is a pure muzlim. 5. Check enDOTwikipediaDOTorg/wiki/Kamakhya_Temple
Re: Sameer ; Answer me If you DARE
by Sameer on May 09, 2009 10:16 PM
Qraan does not give a particular age for marriage but it says that people can marry spouses of their choice when they reach marriageable age. J1had means struggle. K1lling innocents is sin. Qraan says if you k1ll one innocent, its like k1lling whole humanity. Women are equal to men in front of God. However there are different set of rules for women and men because men and women are different. A man is not a woman and a woman is not a man. Both are different. A pure mus1im should live a life in accordance with Qraan.
Re: Re: Re: Sameer ; Answer me If you DARE
by JGN on May 09, 2009 10:21 PM
We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom A11ah hath given thee as spoils of war,...............what is thing called "and those whom thy right hand possesseth"? Is that not slave-gir1s????
Re: Re: Re: Re: Sameer ; Answer me If you DARE
by Sameer on May 09, 2009 10:24 PM
No it does not mean slave girls. It has a much wider meaning than that. Open another thread I will explain you.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sameer ; Answer me If you DARE
by JGN on May 09, 2009 10:42 PM
Sameer, that is the standard bluff of Mus1ims. Have you read Dr. Zakir Naik's "maths teacher" analogy????
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sameer ; Answer me If you DARE
by Sameer on May 09, 2009 10:32 PM
Well so you have never read the authentic quran? The only authentic Quran is available in Arabic. Translations can never be authentic they can only vary in degrees of accuracy. This is basic literature sense. I am sure you already know it.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sameer ; Answer me If you DARE
by JGN on May 09, 2009 10:25 PM
Sameer, I have read 2 Versions (English translations) of The Koran and I know what its contents are. So pl don't try to bluff me.
Re: Re: Re: Sameer ; Answer me If you DARE
by Sameer on May 09, 2009 10:22 PM
I have read it. And it has nothing to do with the topic that I am discussing with starlee. You can open another thread for that and you will get an answer for that.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Sameer ; Answer me If you DARE
by starlee on May 09, 2009 10:26 PM
sameer why dun u explain here " what's that wider meaning ?" I am curious
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sameer ; Answer me If you DARE
by Sameer on May 09, 2009 10:37 PM
My daughter would be able to marry at a age when she is matured enough to choose a husband for herself. And go back to my post, I said exactly the opposite of what you interpreted. I said if a h1ndu father raped her daughter it CANNOT be called the fault of h1nduism. Well in front of God we are only souls, we dont have bodies or earthly needs so souls are obviously equal. In physical form we are different so different rules for different types of humans. Its not that hard to understand. For e.g tennis has 3 sets for women and 5 for men. Different rules yet equally respected in the game.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sameer ; Answer me If you DARE
by starlee on May 09, 2009 10:30 PM
Ok so if men and women are equal in front of god WHY there are different set of rules for men and women ??? If GOD can see us as equal why can't 1slam ? doesnt that statement itself prove that there are somethings in 1slam that just doesn't make sense ???You said killing one innocent is like killing humanity yet WHY muzzies (say in pakistan)promote jihad ? So in your view are they muzzies ? And just now u replied to me saying that if a h1ndu father rapes his daughter bcoz a saint said so "IT is H1ndu1sm's fault" ..so isit appropriate for me to say say SINCE 1SMLAMISTS ARE KILLING INNOCENTs THAT'S 1SLAM'S FAULT ????One last question to you if u have a daughter what age should she be marrying at ?
.. if his father Sanjay Gandhi would have lived and carried out the sterilisation program 30 years, India would have been much more economically developed.
Compulsory military service is a must to foster trust and brotherhood between Indians . And as for sterilisation it is also needed given that our population is still exploding , did u guys know that India is one of the most densely populated countries in the world ? I strongly advocate 2 child policy
Re: Compulsory Military service
by JGN on May 09, 2009 10:02 PM
We need not object to whatever Varun had said just because we do not like him. He is an inexperienced youngster but these two suggestions are very good. Even I had advocated the same on some other discussion boards.
first member of the gandhi family who speaks without putting his foot in his mouth.the other general secretary got it easy as the congis will collapse as a party without the gandhi dynasty leading them.
first member of the gandhi family who speaks without putting his foot in his mouth.the other general secretary got it easy as the congis will collapse as a party without the gandhi dynasty leading them.
