Re: Flat track bully
by Varun on Dec 28, 2011 10:43 PM
He did quite well in SA in tests. SO that argument is BS. But there are issues he needs to deal with in tests. That is for sure.
I think it is time Dhoni starts to take more responsibility in Test matches as well. He needs to bat higher up and get himself in and then he can play his usual shots.
Re: Dhoni needs to bat higher up in Tests
by Anurag Rathore on Dec 28, 2011 06:35 PM
The problem is he is WK. It's not easy to bat after keeping more than 100 overs. But sometimes he can promote himself up the order according to situation.
Re: Re: Dhoni needs to bat higher up in Tests
by sonu on Dec 28, 2011 08:13 PM
anurag, gilchrist, sangakkara, stewart, prior all these wr/are also WK bt very gud batsmen nt like dhoni who fails outside asia everytime.
Re: Re: Re: Dhoni needs to bat higher up in Tests
by Varun on Dec 28, 2011 10:42 PM
They all open sonu. Of coz they also have better techniques. I would wait till i see dhoni play up the order before drawing conclusions. But till then sachin fans can write the myths in plenty while ignoring the demonstrated facts.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni needs to bat higher up in Tests
by Mahesh V on Dec 29, 2011 01:41 AM
Gilchrist was opening batsman in tests ???? Good imagination by Varun.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni needs to bat higher up in Tests
by Sunil Vaidya on Dec 29, 2011 08:31 AM
MAhesh V, Varun was making a general comment, What he meant was when the above named batsmen opened the innings in whatever format they had a larger chance of scoring big becuase they got time and no. of balls to face on their sides...so they can pace their innings...dhoni most of the time in all formats does not get enough time and no. of balls to face to make bigger scores than he already has...mind you even though most of the times he plays down the order he has good no. of 100s and 50s in both tests and odis...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni needs to bat higher up in Tests
by Jiju on Dec 30, 2011 06:49 AM
Mahesh, dont u know that Vaidya understands Varun & Varun understand Vaidya. They both understand Dhoni, they are right others are worng (according to them of course).... Fact is, Dhoni doesnt have the capability to survive on green bouncy & swinging tops.
Though Dhoni has not performed as a batsman in Aus. but for sure he has the ability to change this trend and he will do it in this series for sure if needed......
Re: Dhoni : flop show in Aus Continues.
by KIRAN KUMAR on Dec 28, 2011 06:09 PM
I agree! Whatever people say it was Dhoni who made right decision to come at 3rd down and won us the world cup. Gambhir, Yuvi nobody could do it after Sachin and Sehwag were out. Gambhir was very slow while Yuvi as well as Gambhir were struggling against Melinga till the end of their innings. Dhoni can do something great in test as well.
Re: Re: Dhoni : flop show in Aus Continues.
by ravi misra on Dec 28, 2011 07:40 PM
Hahahaha. Dhoni is a flat track bully, fit for only dead pitches in India & Pak.
Re: Re: Dhoni : flop show in Aus Continues.
by rahul patil on Dec 28, 2011 07:42 PM
no point comparing tests and ODIS they are two completely different game. you need technique and solid defense and fluency. he lacks the first two. though his leadership qualities are good the averages clearly indicate my point. and when you say its not easy to bat after a 100 overs what about the slip fielders like dravid and laxman. ok lets be more accurate its been done this year Matt prior has average of 44 batting the same position as dhoni. stop comparing tests and ODIs
Re: Re: Re: Dhoni : flop show in Aus Continues.
by Varun on Dec 28, 2011 10:41 PM
Bordering on good analysis and then i read the average part. Average of a guy who plays pretty much with the tail is what ? hehe. really funny.
Re: Dhoni
by Nostradamus Great on Dec 28, 2011 09:54 PM
Even in Worldcup ppl are talking abt his knock in the finals... Ppl conviniently forgot What Yuvraj did in the entire tournament or what Gambhir did in the finals... Just one six and the entire nation started worshipping... Dhoni.. Dhoni.. Dhoni....!! He has no technique and he survived for a long time cos of the performance of others and his luck! And we do not have any choice for captain.. so we will have to see him in the side for a long time!
Some people get more credit than they deserve - one such case .You have helicopter shot boeing shot in pitches where you can have a puff and then play .
Currently match is evenly poised rather I would say 51-49 in favour of Aus. Tomorrow morning session will decide the match fate. If Indian openers survive the new bowl in 1st session then it will be easy chase for India. I don't have any expectation from Sehwag. So it will depend on Dravid and Gambhir how they hold the fort in 1st session. Gambhir, Laxman and Virat, one of them will play the decider knock.
Re: What a great test match...
by AmitkumarJha on Dec 28, 2011 03:47 PM
If India have to win they have to play 15 overs without losing any wicket. Also attack Lyon and hilfenhaus. Play Siddle and James carefully.
Re: What a great test match...
by Varun on Dec 28, 2011 03:47 PM
Yeah i think it is slightly in favor of Aus as of now. If our bats survive the first session. yup. Lets hope so.
Re: Re: What a great test match...
by Varun on Dec 28, 2011 04:38 PM
hehe. Why not ? Nobody is always bad or always good. They also have their days. Who knows this might be a day when sachin sheds his nerve issues. Lets rate on what we have seen, but not predict the future.
Re: Re: Re: Re: What a great test match...
by Partha Das on Dec 28, 2011 06:45 PM
Let's hope Sachin get's the TON and wins the match for Us.We definately need somebody to get a century in order to chase the total
Re: Re: Re: Re: What a great test match...
by Sunil Vaidya on Dec 28, 2011 07:41 PM
varun is absolutely correct. he understand me and i understand him. Jiju, varun is not an idiot like you...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What a great test match...
by Jiju on Dec 29, 2011 04:36 AM
Sunil bache, you understand him. he understands u. ok, made for each other!! Gadhekebache Vaidya, you are the biggest idiot, understand that before writing nonsense.
Re: Re: Re: What a great test match...
by C M on Dec 28, 2011 09:32 PM
R U Kidding..?? SRT and nerve issues..?? Did u see latest innings absolutely class..Everyone else has nerves issue but SRT...Media and otehrs are more into his 100th Ton and why not first time in the history of cricket they all got chance to talk about it...they all acting hyper but SRT..yeah as u say lets rate on wht u see . Hope u saw his latest innings yesterday. Tomorrow if VVS clicks ppl will easily jump on SRT ,selfish etc etc..Rahul was sheer lucky to get his 50 (He is wonder batter but this was not is inning)...It was again SRT the backbone iof Indian innings as u said rate on what u see...
Sehwag: 10 to 20 Gambhir: 00 to 10 Dravid: 20 to 30 Sachin: 10 to 20 Laxman: 40 to 50 Dhoni: 10 to 20 Kohli: 0 to 10 Ashwin:20 to 30 Zaheer:10 to 20 Sharma: 00 to 10 Yadav: 00 to 05
So on average, India will score less than 200. We will lose the match by 70 odd runs.
Re: Tomorrow's scorecard will look like:
by ankyr on Dec 28, 2011 03:48 PM
india needs sehwag to stay for atleast 1 hr,,his one quick knock wll make a big impact tommorow,,,
Re: Tomorrow's scorecard will look like:
by Devashish Das on Dec 28, 2011 04:36 PM
It is all about human nature buddy. we only have the negative thought first. but I am sure we do not want the same including you. thoughts r thoughts. you can not get rid of that.
Re: Re: Tomorrow's scorecard will look like:
by rahul patil on Dec 28, 2011 07:44 PM
Dravid and laxman are gonna make it count. just wait and watch :) this is a match that they can win!
gambhir was seen moving towards the square leg umpire while facing up to pattinson & hilfenhaus. The same thing he did in the 4 innings he played inengland in 2011 summer. the fellow is scared of geniune rising fast deliveries. Basically he is a coward, he should be dropped forthwith from the team & rahane be included. At least. the chap has more guts Than gambhir.
Re: Gambler should be dropped forthwith
by Varun on Dec 28, 2011 03:19 PM
Gambhir is not a flop. There is something on his mind. His issue is shot selection. He carries some of the subcontinent shots into australia. The earlier he lets it go, the better for him and India.
Re: Re: Gambler should be dropped forthwith
by AmitkumarJha on Dec 28, 2011 03:24 PM
I think drop Gambhir. Instead play Rohit Sharma in his place. Rohit has got good technique.
Re: Re: Re: Gambler should be dropped forthwith
by Varun on Dec 28, 2011 03:28 PM
Yes rohit is good. But gambhir is better considering the experience behind him. Pl dont be quick to dismiss him.
Re: Re: Re: Gambler should be dropped forthwith
by ankyr on Dec 28, 2011 03:46 PM
cmon,,,,,u dun want to change this opening pair for sometime now....u have seen it in the past ,,gambhir has always been n under rated player....
Re: Gambler should be dropped forthwith
by Devashish Das on Dec 28, 2011 03:52 PM
I differ from you my frnd. I think there is only one player who plays the pacers well and that is Gambhir. Any one can hit a six to a spinner by stepping forward or coming out of his crease but the same to a genuine pacer, Gamphir is an expert.
Re: Re: Gambler should be dropped forthwith
by C M on Dec 28, 2011 09:36 PM
Chk his record on away home ...barring SA (2011)he didnt do well against any big team outside subcontinental pitches...
See, Dhoni is living a life of Ganguly's earlier days when the later built a team and was on a winning track but his own individual performance got stuck. until he was winning everything was jolly good for him but once the team started losing then we all know what happened to him. Dhoni has so many triumph under his belt (no doubt on that)becoz of which his personal performance is going overshadowed but the day the team will face its misery then you will see the same thing happen to him just like Mr. Ganguly. so, dhoni is plucking the plums well now who know whats next.
Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by ankyr on Dec 28, 2011 02:53 PM
what is the big deal....if u r a player and not a captain,,,ur performance counts ,,,in that sense,even tendulkar is not permamnant in this team ,,,but if ur a captain,another feather gets added to ur list when ur team wins,,,u r a good captain n ur team is also winning,,than its always fine,,,but if u r not performing at peronal level and ur team is also loosing ,then u dun have any excuse to continue with captaincy ,,,
Re: Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by Devashish Das on Dec 28, 2011 03:29 PM
We give over hype to a captain. when the team won the WC we said "after 28 years India win WC under Dhoni" but 15 more players are very much responsible for the same at the same time when Oz looses the QF of WC, Ponting has to resign from the captaincy and had to face the axe despite winning the last WC and again here also 15 more players were responsible for same. it is not the captain only who makes all the decision, it is a team game and the decision are take collectively. As far as 10dulkar is concern, if you r a die hard fan of cricket than will agree that there will be always a place for him in the squade and you
Re: Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by Devashish Das on Dec 28, 2011 03:31 PM
We give over hype to a captain. when the team won the WC we said "after 28 years India win WC under Dhoni" but 15 more players are very much responsible for the same at the same time when Oz looses the QF of WC, Ponting has to resign from the captaincy and had to face the axe despite winning the last WC and again here also 15 more players were responsible for same. it is not the captain only who makes all the decision, it is a team game and the decision are taken collectively. As far as 10dulkar is concern, if you r a die hard fan of cricket than will agree that there will be always a place for him in the squade and you know why. I think reasonability and accountability are the two sides of a single coin.
Re: Re: Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by Devashish Das on Dec 28, 2011 03:33 PM
I think responsibility and accountability are the two sides of a single coin.
Re: Re: Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by Varun on Dec 28, 2011 03:40 PM
The tendulkar part is quite funny. There are lots of people who hype up captains and also flat track bullies as gods. A captain is rated by what he does in terms of how he leads the team and not just by his individual performance. However when a team fails or the captain consistently fails in his other roles, he does lose the right to ask others to pull up. But confusing individual performance as a captaincy attribute and assuming that a team wins just by having good players are fallacies that have been proved wrong may a times.
Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by Varun on Dec 28, 2011 03:12 PM
THe theory would have made sense if he was a disaster in all forms. He is very good in ODI and T20. In tests he has been patchy. That is an issue with temperament the way i see it. Technique is a problem but not a huge impediment as he has the ability of shot selection as demonstrated in ODI. How he will shape up in tests time will tell. But i think he needs to bat up the order in tests and learn how to play a real test innings.
Re: Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by Devashish Das on Dec 28, 2011 03:46 PM
@Varun. having played 65 test matches, you still depending upon time to tell how he will shape up? pathetic man. and you a talking about temperament and technique. I must tell u each individual whichever field he is working on has a temper but about technique, we all know that it improves with time as you have mentioned but don’t you think Dhoni has had enough time “65 matches buddy”.
Re: Re: Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by Varun on Dec 28, 2011 03:57 PM
hehe. Playing 65 test matches is not the criteria. It is where in the order you play. Test match temperament is developed when you have the chance to build an innings and it starts by learning how to do it against smaller teams. Of coz there are supremely talented people who are automatically pushed up the order for their good technique and others who have had to learn it in crisis. I know you have the superhero myths in your mind, i am talking about how it is for a player. Not fantasy. Like i have said many times in the past, i would wait till i see him bat up the order a bit before deciding one way or the other. For you it might be pathetic.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by Devashish Das on Dec 28, 2011 04:25 PM
As much as I know, a team is build on three segment nd those are Top order, Middle order and the Tail enders. there can be only two openers and that should be permanent and no team can take a risk to experiment on every time. now I understand, u want to c dhoni in the upper slot. u think this will solve the matter. again pathetic comment. we have seen Ashwin scoring a hundred in test that means he should also be promoted to top order so that he can show us his temperament. I think u got what I mean to say buddy. but still I say 65 is not a less numeric digit. and about that super hero myth I only can say that he the same for this whole world even on those countries where no one knows the game except F1 and Football.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by Varun on Dec 28, 2011 04:34 PM
Your understanding is quite right. However the loaded analysis was funny. Anyways i am not saying dhoni should immediately go up the order. My point is that dont rate somebody who bats down the order based on the average and stats of somebody who bats up the order. As for ashwin, it does mean that he has better abilities to adjust to tests than dhoni. However my concerns are more for the future when top players depart. With dhonis demonstrated ability to hold and innings together in ODIs, i do fancy his abilities to hopefully do the same in tests without super heroics. As for ashwin being promoted up the order, i wouldnt say that due to the simple fact that his primary job is that of a bowler. But he is far more capable and has utilized his chances well. Dhoni seems confused as to how to pace and plan his test innings from that point. I am of the kind who would like to test out peoples temperament before deciding one way or the other. Just a habit picked from having done team building over so many years and experienced the contributions of average guys with sheer presence of mind above talented ones who choke. Hence the comments. :)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by Devashish Das on Dec 28, 2011 04:26 PM
As much as I know, a team is build on three segment nd those are Top order, Middle order and the Tail enders. there can be only two openers and that should be permanent and no team can take a risk to experiment on every time. now I understand, u want to c dhoni in the upper slot. u think this will solve the matter. again pathetic comment. we have seen Ashwin scoring a hundred in test that means he should also be promoted to top order so that he can show us his temperament. I think u got what I mean to say buddy. but still I say 65 is not a less numeric digit. and about that super hero myth I only can say that he the same for this whole world even on those countries where no one knows the game except F1 and Football.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by Devashish Das on Dec 28, 2011 04:27 PM
As much as I know, a team is build on three segment nd those are Top order, Middle order and the Tail enders. there can be only two openers and that should be permanent and no team can take a risk to experiment on every time. now I understand, u want to c dhoni in the upper slot. u think this will solve the matter. again pathetic comment. we have seen Ashwin scoring a hundred in test that means he should also be promoted to top order so that he can show us his temperament. I think u got what I mean to say buddy. but still I say 65 is not a less numeric digit. and about that super hero myth I only can say that he the same for this whole world even on those countries where no one knows the game except F1 and Football.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by Devashish Das on Dec 28, 2011 04:29 PM
As much as I know, a team is build on three segment nd those are Top order, Middle order and the Tail enders. there can be only two openers and that should be permanent and no team can take a risk to experiment on every time. now I understand, u want to c dhoni in the upper slot. u think this will solve the matter. again pathetic comment. we have seen Ashwin scoring a hundred in test that means he should also be promoted to top order so that he can show us his temperament. I think u got what I mean to say buddy. but still I say 65 is not a less numeric digit. and about that super hero myth I only can say that he the same for this whole world even in those countries where no one knows the game except F1 and Football.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni a mimic of Ganguly
by rahul patil on Dec 28, 2011 07:52 PM
never compare ODIS and Tests mate. they are never the same. 65 tests is a lot and i have to agree with Dev here. Just to let you know in tests there isn't really a limit for bouncers so the bowlers attack our players with short pitch bowling and bouncers where only dravid,laxman,sehwag,gambhir(to some extent) and the tendulkar can withstand. dhoni neither has the technique nor the ability to be fluent. i am no epert here but the stats and the bat has done the talking for him. i don't hate him he is a good ODI player but he should realise Tests is all together a different ball game
