Our results in cricket typify our current shortcomings as a nation.
We're too emotional, we don't believe in prior planning and preparation and we lack strong leadership not only in cricket but in all sectors of our society. Since 1947, no politician has had the clout and charisma to make true what Mahatma Gandhi and all Indian freedom fighters dreamt of our country becoming in 2007.
I'd love to be able to have Indian cricket coaches and play the "Indian way" but unfortunately we ourselves don't have a comprehensive idea of the Indian way really is because no leadership entity has come in and defined it, just like no convincing leaders have taken India by the horns and led it into the 21st. They've just allowed India to run its course, more worried about obtaining votes for themselves. And so similarly, the BCCI after 75 years of existence has failed to come up with a clear vision for Indian cricket and work towards it.
If India doesn't need a coach, fine by me. But then why doesn't the BCCI doesn't just come out and say it and declare 'India would play its best cricket without a coach'. Lack of leadership.
So while Indians are able to get away with this up-bringing (and actually do very well) in most other walks of life like entertainment and the knowledge industry, sport is a much sterner test of a nation's culture and we cannot get away with this chaotic mindset and lack of leadership in sports.
This is why India will never taste cricket success like Aus.
RE:Diff between India & Aus
by Marie Lele on Dec 19, 2007 09:44 AM
Your Katha on Nation at large makes a lot of sense. Your concluding statement that "this why india will never taste cricket success in Australia" is something debatable. Agreed India will not taste success this time atleast but dont know if it will never ever. I feel India will not taste success this time is simply because Aussie team is far superior than ours in all aspects of the game on field and off field. They are better at Bowling, Batting, Fielding Sledging, appealing, eye-balling Off field They are better at Handling the media, they know when to talk, how to talk and what to talk. They come across as calm, composed and assured of their own capabilities.
RE:Diff between India & Aus
by Supratik on Dec 19, 2007 10:39 AM
Sorry what I meant to say was India will never be as consistent as Aus. India might well beat them the odd time, maybe even the odd 2 times, but it's hard to see it happening more than that if the present mindset, which comes from the rest of our society, continues...
RE:Diff between India & Aus
by Anil Kumar on Dec 19, 2007 08:11 AM
Actually, in India there are grassroots level problems with sports. What you are saying is also true, in that a good majority of Indians tend to be followers than leaders. Of course it is not possible for everyone to lead, but the attitude, rather the lack of it, is really bothersome. Indians should wake up and make conscious efforts to instill self-confidence in their children. There is a big difference between teaching children to be respectful of elders and out rightly making them timid by constantly snubbing. It happens in day-to-day life: I am big, you are a kid, just be that; don't talk when elders are talking; what do you know, you are just a kid, etc., are all too familiar shouts in Indian families. Even in schools, they don't teach simple things like how to listen first before reacting. That is precisely why we see people fighting in these forums without even making an attempt to understand others. Anyway... coming to sports, when I say there is a grassroots level problem, what I mean is the encouragement from parents. How many parents go and watch their children play some sport at school level? Do Indians do that consistently? If they don't, how can we expect league level events to catch up? These efforts have to be ground-up, meaning from school level to college to district to state to country level. Indian kids do play at all these levels, that is why there is a good team in at least one sport (cricket), but the level of encouragement and participation from famili
RE:RE:Diff between India & Aus
by Anil Kumar on Dec 19, 2007 08:12 AM
Actually, in India there are grassroots level problems with sports. What you are saying is also true, in that a good majority of Indians tend to be followers than leaders. Of course it is not possible for everyone to lead, but the attitude, rather the lack of it, is really bothersome. Indians should wake up and make conscious efforts to instill self-confidence in their children. There is a big difference between teaching children to be respectful of elders and out rightly making them timid by constantly snubbing. It happens in day-to-day life: I am big, you are a kid, just be that; don't talk when elders are talking; what do you know, you are just a kid, etc., are all too familiar shouts in Indian families. Even in schools, they don't teach simple things like how to listen first before reacting. That is precisely why we see people fighting in these forums without even making an attempt to understand others. Anyway... coming to sports, when I say there is a grassroots level problem, what I mean is the encouragement from parents. How many parents go and watch their children play some sport at school level? Do Indians do that consistently? If they don't, how can we expect league level events to catch up? These efforts have to be ground-up, meaning from school level to college to district to state to country level. Indian kids do play at all these levels, that is why there is a good team in at least one sport (cricket), but the level of encouragement and participation from famili
RE:Diff between India & Aus
by Anil Kumar on Dec 19, 2007 08:23 AM
contd.. (but the level of encouragement and participation from) families (parents) is almost nil at school/college levels. Only after a kid makes name at the national level, parents tend to encourage. There may be other causes behind these, like poverty lack of education, etc., but the Indian society as a whole has a bigger role to play. - Anil
RE:Diff between India & Aus
by Supratik on Dec 19, 2007 09:39 AM
The biggest injustice in all of this that while India has very valid reasons (poverty, lack of education) for being more backward in most parts of society than some other more developed countries, this cannot be the excuse when it comes to cricket.
We have more money and resources in our cricket industry than some countries have put together! Yet we waste it away due to problems with root cause nothing else but lack of leadership: ad-hoc selections, no open communication between players, selectors and administrators, unnecessary politics, corruption at grass roots level, the list goes on.
Agreed that the BCCI is only a reflection of the society it operates in, but in India's case this shouldn't be so. Cricket should be a leader in our community and capture the persistence, hard work and committment of Indians, not be infamous for the ad-hocism, poor planning and corruption prevalent in our country today.
But then, who is going to make this so? One answer is this could become an election issue and the government and courts could be called in to reign the BCCI in. They could start by allowing the ICL into the national cricket scene: ideally cricket should be run by a new body which sits above BCCI and ICL, so ICL and BCCI are in direct competition with each other. This would bring out the best in both these bodies.
RE:Diff between India & Aus
by krish ramesh on Dec 19, 2007 06:18 PM
I partly agree with these things - lack of leadership: ad-hoc selections, no open communication between players, selectors and administrators, unnecessary politics, corruption at grass roots level I think the fact is that many sports is all about physique once the skill sets become more or less equal. Gentically we seem to be not that big and tall in general and in the end that matters at the highest level. But all said and done there are sports where physique does not matter that much but stamina and speed does. I think Indians should get into those sports as chinese do. Another example is hockey - when foreigners could not get hold of us in hockey skills they changed the playing field itself to get into the power category.
RE:Hahaha! India does not a need a coach you dummy!
by down_under on Dec 19, 2007 06:05 AM
Even Geoffrey Boycott's mother in law will say "Rajput is an idiot"!!
RE:Hahaha! India does not a need a coach you dummy!
by down_under on Dec 19, 2007 05:57 AM
Most of the desi coaches will ignore fitness and they don't have appropriate coach certification degrees. However US$ 300,000 is mouth watering legal salary in India. One reason for not having a desi coach is - he may be perceived to be showing unfairness towards a few guys. Also desi guys will not give a frank opinion, since many things run in India based on who knows who...
In Australia, cricketers are groomed from the state/province level. They have the best first-class cricket format. They take up the game very seriously even at the domestic level. Every domestic team coach is knowledgble. They're equipped with video facility even at the domestic level. So that coaches can easily rectify the flaws of a batsman or even a bowlwer at the domestic level. Moreover they emphasize to be fit always. That's why they're the best fielding team in the world.
Sometime back Ambathi Rayudu told in an interview "Every critics of mine wants to rectify my batting technical flaws but sadly I dont have any video clipping of my batting to do/follow so. Not all first class matches are recorded. So, If I play in ICL, this is an opportunity to have seen my batting clips on video." . To some extent it's true.
RE:The diff between India and Australia
by sudhir dhar on Dec 19, 2007 05:06 AM
This is India, we are lacking in every department, but we LIVE, we die. And once in a while we win too.
Who cares what Aussies do or dont!!
I do aclnowledge Ricky ans spinaltap have the right to say what ever they want, but we desis have a right to live by our rules.
RE:The diff between India and Australia
by down_under on Dec 19, 2007 06:03 AM
Their results are also vastly superior. We happy with 'Saas Bhi Kabhi Bahoo Thi' !!
RE:The diff between India and Australia
by Marie Lele on Dec 19, 2007 09:52 AM
Who says Goras are not happy. They beleive in themselves and they have a very practical approach to life unlike Desi.
For us, everthing is destiny dependent etc..
Look at the amount of people at different place of worship everyday. Look at the kind of nonsensical fasting and beliefs we entangle ourselves into so that we can be happier. All this is because there is no self-belief. Except for Stock-brokers, noone in India is happy at present.
RE:RE:The diff between India and Australia
by down_under on Dec 19, 2007 10:23 AM
If there were no visa restrictions, will more people flock to western countries or more will make a beeline for India? Why is there so much outrage each time a western country tightens its visa rule? Why does Md. Haneef want to go back to Australia?
saurav, as a teenager, selected for 1992 ausi tour, then dumped for 4 years, only to bounce back in eng tour n make history of itself. bhajji was taken at tender age of 17 years, failed, rejected by selectors, only to b taken back to become tormentor of the ausi in ind. parthiv patel was taken at tender age of 17 yrs. was dumped from the team but now showing his true worth as a player, too much to be ignored. he is definitely worth selection in the team. just like saurav n bhajji, dont discard parthiv on his past performance. look at his present performances.
RE:saurav, bhajji n parthiv.
by on Dec 19, 2007 04:45 AM
Sourav says, yuvraj deserves a place in the test side.. after this hundred..its the same saurav who dropped yuvraj after he scored a hundred on debut in Pakistan so that he could get back into the side..now that his place is not in danger, he talks sense.. and suddenly we find he talks a whole lot of shit too
RE:saurav, bhajji n parthiv.
by down_under on Dec 19, 2007 10:44 AM
Remember Zimbabwe 2005, GC wanted to include both Kaif and Yuvi in the team- and that led to Mahabharat.
RE:saurav, bhajji n parthiv.
by Rocky Kapoor on Dec 19, 2007 05:43 AM
r u parthiv patel writing this message? we almost forgot who are you? thanks for reminding.
RE:saurav, bhajji n parthiv.
by down_under on Dec 19, 2007 06:02 AM
Kaif, Raina are scoring runs against- Ranadeb Bose and S. Paul. Also Badrinath is amongst runs.
RE:saurav, bhajji n parthiv.
by uncle shame on Dec 19, 2007 11:28 AM
yes. badrinath is scoring runs in domestic tournaments. and parthiv patel is also amongst the runs. agreed with on. he has played against aussies as well.
This is bhajji. I just realised that I shot myself in the mouth (by saying that Brad Hogg is cannon fodder for the Indian batsmen). I wanna go back. Please let M.karthick come in my place.(Cries profusely as he says this!!!!!)
In Major League Baseball, everything bowls down to statistics. And baseball statistics has turned into an advanced science. Indian cricket needs to adopt this approach. It would have shown Greg Chappel as a clown among coaches. Rajput has better success than these white man. But we have this White skin obsessed Maratha from Baramathi who calls the shots in Indian cricket.
u guys are always ready to come up with the best indian team possible.well, how about a competiton with a twist here. Try to pick the worst possible indian team, however the team must have 6 batters 1 wk and 4 bowlers. njoi
RE:worst indian team
by swamy on Dec 19, 2007 12:47 AM
Its mean of u target these players who failed to taste success. They never made a fraction of them money the main players made, but put in the same effort.
RE:worst indian team
by Kauten Kraft on Dec 18, 2007 10:52 PM
I disagreee with u-some exceptions being there ---some names mentioned here have individually won u/16" or u/20 world cup or state level excellent performance --lets not write these guys off --given one of the coming days --they might be heading Indian team as manager
RE:worst indian team
by Santosh on Dec 19, 2007 12:47 AM
1) Sadagopan Ramesh 2) SS Das 3) Hrishikesh Kanitkar 4) Dinesh Mongia 5) Jacob Martin 6) Neol David 7) MSK Prasad or Deepdas Gupta 8) Vijay Bharadwaj 9) Dodda Ganesh 10) Abey Kuruvilla 11) Debashish Mohanty 12) Ritender Singh Sodhi
Generally we confuse between a coach and a player. Coaching is totally different ball game, u may be worst cricketer but can be a good coach. A coach is like ideal teacher. Buchanan, Aussie coach never played international cricket. The point is why to fall back on some body who does not have coaching experience and professional coaching training. What Kirsten can offer is his experience at international level. we have to wait and hope that he turns out to be a good coach.
My question is what is wrong with Lalchand Rajput, He has produced wonderful results as a coach.
He coached MP ranaji team, that year MP reached up to final stages.
He coached indian Junior team which won world cup in Pakistan, may be in 2002 or 2001.
He was manager during recent indian tour of England and than 20-20 occured. He was manager during lastly concluded Pak tour. LR does have professional training as a cpoach and he was first in his batch! let us have some faith in our own players, if not LR than go for Amarnath. He is brilliant as a coach. Or Patil or Srikant or even gaekwad.
