Bhusan,Arun shourie, Jaswant sinha and kapil sibal fighting this for Rahul gandhi to score perceptional gains for khangress before elections 2019.This tells the overall story that this fighter must be genuinely good plane which these guys(most of them are pak supporters) want to derail their procurement by India. SC must come clearly on this subject now without uttering ifs and buts. Hopefully they will.If it is proven otherwise that the deal was cheaper, will Mr Gogoi ( a very good friend of chidambaram and Kapil sibal) issue a arrest warrant for all the four guys above along with their mafia boss Rahul gandhi ? If not then what ever respect SC commands ( if any ) will also go in the eyes of public.
Re: Bhusan's role
by Prakash Bedekar on Nov 15, 2018 11:53 AM
All these petitioners are fighting for the truth regarding procurement of 36 aircrafts instead of 128 as planned earlier and it appeares that the entire deal is fishy and to favour one party.
Re: Re: Bhusan's role
by Rajnath Guru on Nov 15, 2018 11:59 AM
Truth that will benefit Chinna, Pak and pro chinna/pak shameless , freebooters cpi/m ..wapsi lobby.. who are so much used to freebies that they seem to go overboard for free wine, caviar, saffron biryani... Really greedy , ravenous lobby
Re: Re: Bhusan's role
by gokula patra on Nov 15, 2018 12:24 PM
Again understanding issue from You mr Prakash. 36 aircrafts negotiated to arrest the decline in fleet quality of IAF as urgent procurement (4 years) which is a history in sort given the poor track record of defence procurement in India. On 128 the deal was 18 on ready to fly condition and rest in collaboration with HAL( ??? as UPA never did any basic work in consultation with HAL) to be built in India . The entire thing was planned over 10 years which IAF was not ready as they wanted aircrafts immediate ly. So 36 aircrafts deals were signed to deliver them fro 2019 to 2022. Also UPA deal did not have meteor missiles. Also 36 deal had one addl suppl clause that later on the govt may add 70 more jets if required. Given the year on year updgradation happening in fighter jets ( like 6 th generation fighters ), rafael 128 may have been a bad deal as after 10 years, they may be out dated . That is why SC asked airforce guys to come for testimony. With Super sukohis/ own 5 generation plane/SU57 PAKFA on card, 36 nos of rafael is just sufficient for India forn ext 4-5 years. This jet will counter China's J 20 for sure.
Re: Re: Re: Bhusan's role
by gokula patra on Nov 15, 2018 12:28 PM
Also the $5BN off set clause negate HAL contract which otherwise would have imported the engine and key components from France. What Mr Pappu gandhi says that $5BN is going to Reliance is again wrong. There are 700 suppliers and contractors who will be involved in this $5BN off set clause.. These things are there in public domain.
Re: Re: Bhusan's role
by gokula patra on Nov 15, 2018 12:24 PM
Again understanding issue from You mr Prakash. 36 aircrafts negotiated to arrest the decline in fleet quality of IAF as urgent procurement (4 years) which is a history in sort given the poor track record of defence procurement in India. On 128 the deal was 18 on ready to fly condition and rest in collaboration with HAL( ??? as UPA never did any basic work in consultation with HAL) to be built in India . The entire thing was planned over 10 years which IAF was not ready as they wanted aircrafts immediate ly. So 36 aircrafts deals were signed to deliver them fro 2019 to 2022. Also UPA deal did not have meteor missiles. Also 36 deal had one addl suppl clause that later on the govt may add 70 more jets if required. Given the year on year updgradation happening in fighter jets ( like 6 th generation fighters ), rafael 128 may have been a bad deal as after 10 years, they may be out dated . That is why SC asked airforce guys to come for testimony. With Super sukohis/ own 5 generation plane/SU57 PAKFA on card, 36 nos of rafael is just sufficient for India forn ext 4-5 years. This jet will counter China's J 20 for sure.
Re: Re: Bhusan's role
by gokula patra on Nov 15, 2018 12:25 PM
Again understanding issue from You mr Prakash. 36 aircrafts negotiated to arrest the decline in fleet quality of IAF as urgent procurement (4 years) which is a history in sort given the poor track record of defence procurement in India. On 128 the deal was 18 on ready to fly condition and rest in collaboration with HAL( ??? as UPA never did any basic work in consultation with HAL) to be built in India . The entire thing was planned over 10 years which IAF was not ready as they wanted aircrafts immediate ly. So 36 aircrafts deals were signed to deliver them fro 2019 to 2022. Also UPA deal did not have meteor missiles. Also 36 deal had one addl suppl clause that later on the govt may add 70 more jets if required. Given the year on year updgradation happening in fighter jets ( like 6 th generation fighters ), rafael 128 may have been a bad deal as after 10 years, they may be out dated . That is why SC asked airforce guys to come for testimony. With Super sukohis/ own 5 generation plane/SU57 PAKFA on card, 36 nos of rafael is just sufficient for India forn ext 4-5 years. This jet will counter China's J 20 for sure.
Re: Re: Bhusan's role
by P S SHAH on Nov 16, 2018 10:22 AM
For the first time, there are no middle men are involved in this deal and the frustrated people who did not get anything in this deal are against this deal.
Lost its credit ability, have time to listen anti national Prashant Bhushan, not ready to listen Ram temple or Sabrimala case where many crores are spent just on security and other major issues, also 5 judges showed resentment in public, what a joke of judicial system.
Next level of accusation from RaGa & Co would be Modi forced French govt. to choose Dassault as the manufacturer of Rafale so that Reliance is selected as offset partner. Entire world is lying about Rafale except he & his team of jkrs are telling the truth.
Re: Next level of accusation from RaGa & Co
by P S SHAH on Nov 15, 2018 10:59 AM
Congress had faced the worst ever poll debacle in their history under leadership (?) of Rahul Gandhi in last parliament election and state elections thereafter. Inspite of his failure, this man is promoted as party's president. He is going to bring further down fall for his party with his exposure of his lack of knowldge about ground realities, lack of intelligence, experience, maturity.Wonder why no one in the oldest political party has guts to question and challenge his leadership.
Re: Re: Next level of accusation from RaGa &a
by on Nov 16, 2018 02:57 PM
now it is going to be reverse , modi has run to save his skin with nirmala DM , everything will be out before election , modi is shame less man ,never open his mouth when trouble comes to nation to common man, he opens only when corporates under threat .
Re: Next level of accusation from RaGa & Co
by Prakash Bedekar on Nov 15, 2018 11:58 AM
Entire deal is full of contovercies. It was proclaimed as INTER GOVT AGREEMENT, now it is clear that deal is between Dassault and Defence Ministry and biggest joke of century is selection of Anil Ambani's company as offset partner. It seems only BJP has got the details of capabilities of Anil Ambani as manufacturer of fighter aircrafts.
Re: Re: Next level of accusation from RaGa &a
by rnages waran on Nov 15, 2018 01:31 PM
what is wrong AMBANI or you all are better than HAL. see their web site they made bolt and nut or resistor under make in india initiate Still you trust HAL see space research center or DRDO they do many think past 20 years where HAL IMPORT THINGS AND ASK THEIR VENDOR ASSEMBLE. DID NOTHING
Re: Re: Next level of accusation from RaGa &a
by Rajnath Guru on Nov 15, 2018 12:09 PM
Dumb sold out greedy, ravenous wpasi goons are not aware of Sarbanes-Oxley which is binding on all corporate entities..
Re: Re: Rafale scam
by gokula patra on Nov 15, 2018 11:15 AM
He can't and he is saying because he is a muzie and they oppose any thing which is good for the country and bad for their love Pakistan.. plain and simple logic.
Re: Re: Rafale scam
by on Nov 16, 2018 02:53 PM
no need to prove already SC clipped modi wings , and he is hiding under secret class . we will watch how modi jumlas will take care his shame less skin
Re: Rafale scam
by Prakash Bedekar on Nov 15, 2018 12:00 PM
Why not ask Modiji about the total expirience of Anil Ambani as manufacturer of fighter aircrafts?
Re: Re: Rafale scam
by Rajnath Guru on Nov 15, 2018 12:08 PM
Dumb sold out greedy, ravenous wpasi goons are not aware of Sarbanes-Oxley which is binding on all corporate entities...
The AG says it is G-G agreement and Dassult has choice the offset partner. How can G-G agreement is justified with Daaualt choice the offset partner. When G-G agreement is made the Govt of India in making the payment out of the Public tax money and the Govt of India and France need to choice the offset partner and not the Dassualt agency.
Re: Rafale deal
by P S SHAH on Nov 15, 2018 09:17 AM
Dassault has every right to choose the offset partner as Dassault will be fully responsible for the quality of Air craft and the government can penalise Dassault for any any lapse on their part.
Re: Re: Rafale deal
by paul theo on Nov 15, 2018 09:37 AM
WERE TENDERS FLOATED? ALL KNOW THAT ANIL AMBANI WAS PROMPTED BY THE GOVT , ANS AS A PRECONDITION FOR GETTING THE CONTRACT, MEN WHO HAVE BEEN LYING FOR LAST 4 YEARS , CANNOT BE TRUSTED ANY MORE.
Re: Re: Re: Rafale deal
by P S SHAH on Nov 15, 2018 09:43 AM
Bewada Theo, you continue your non stop drinking. Bewada like you will never understand the procedures of the government.
Re: Re: Rafale deal
by Kapil Dehiragbogra on Nov 15, 2018 09:58 AM
how to enforce penalty when there is no sovereign guarantee ?? will dassault accept penalty? Never... This GTG deals is another jumla
Re: Re: Re: Rafale deal
by P S SHAH on Nov 15, 2018 11:05 AM
Do You think Dassault will get entire amount due to them before delivery of fighter planes ? Do you think that the people who has done negotiations and finalised contract with them on behalf of the present government are fools ?
Re: Rafale deal
by gokula patra on Nov 15, 2018 11:20 AM
You have no idea how G-G agreement happens. Read govt procurement manuals and SOPs especially related to PSUs and Defence industries to understand the intricacies.. The supplier can choose subcontractors and sub-suppliers along with prices, TAT and delivery terms. This manual is there from ages and even khangress govt followed the same . It is only middle men commissions which khangressees alllowed to eat in these contracts which was missing in G-G contract on rafale deal.. That is why khangress is upset . In fact in the original deal of UPA , sanjay bhandari who is a partner in arms with Mr Bhadra bid for the off set clause which did not work out due to loss of power of Mrs Gandhi and the G _ G contact subsequently taken up by NDA.. Read complete history before making pappu type comments mr Patil.
Re: Rafale deal
by Prakash Bedekar on Nov 15, 2018 12:05 PM
Don't you know that Anil Ambanis company has built more than 1000 fighter aircrafts als only in the dreams of BJP read Modiji
"Had Rafale fighter jets been used during the Kargil war in 1999, the number of casualties would have been less, the Centre told the Supreme Court while justifying the acquisition of 36 Rafale fighter jets."
The entire MOD and NDA Govt does not even know that the Rafale flew with the French Air FOrce only in 2001. How could it have been deployed in Kargil ? Doesn't the BJP Govt even know that their own Govt deployed the MIrage very successfully in Kargil in 1999 ? Why fantasize about a non existent Rafale in 1999 , in Kargil ? Unprecedented ignorance from the centre.
Re: Re: Ignorance ?
by P S SHAH on Nov 15, 2018 09:47 AM
It require common sense to understand. However, this bias and color blind people will understand only those things which suit their bias mindset.
Re: Ignorance ?
by Suresh on Nov 15, 2018 10:18 AM
Its like saying, if i had cell phone in 2050, i would have talked to Nehru thru it. It's saying the benefit of having it earlier and the importance of such technology. Do not confuse it for the sake of argument.
Re: Ignorance ?
by gokula patra on Nov 15, 2018 11:28 AM
Had similiar capable plane was employed in Kargil... That is the statement Mr papu bhakt fartananda... Rafale has high quality cruise missile delivery and bunker burst ammunition which currently avaialble with Su-30 MKI . The only advantage of Rafale in a real war schenario is that it is an excellent A2G fighter which can fly low and drop bomps on even difficult targets which SU-30 MKI can't do due to its role as A2A fighter and its high radar signature. SU30 MKI also is not stealth unlike Rafael and will be used only to destroy incoming enemy aircrafts and protect attacking jets & bombers like Jaguars/MIG29. Once Super Su-30 Mki is converted to Super sukohis with AESA radar and upgraded jamming suites & partial stealth coating, it may be equivalent of Rafael. In fact read defence magazines . They claim that once Rafael lands in Asia, it will be probably the best jet in Asia along with F-35 of Japan. So do some research before writing non sense like Pappu gandhi who wants this jet not to land in India due to his secret arrangement with Pak and China..
Re: Ignorance ?
by Prakash Bedekar on Nov 15, 2018 12:10 PM
When CJI pointed out the facts, AG had a laugh and said his remark was hypothetical, no wonder from AG of MOdi regime who promised to deposit Rs 15,00,000 in each bank account.
Re: Re: Ignorance ?
by P S SHAH on Nov 15, 2018 05:07 PM
Do you know anything about Attorney general K K Venugopal ? He has more knowldege, experience and wisdom than any of the Judges of Supreme Court.
How foolish it is to present enemy will know. Is France a less enemy than other nation if war takes place? It is an era of showing deterrent and boasting on capability. If NaMo has not siphoned money for his party and saving Anil Ambani on the way he has certainly fooled by French company. The reluctance to share with JPC is seriously making us to believe financial perjury. A state can not have any such secret which only PM will know.
Re: Foolish argument
by P S SHAH on Nov 15, 2018 09:25 AM
How many deals for defence were disclosed by the government before public in last 70 years ? If the country has people like Rahul Gandhi, Yeshwant Sinha, Arun Shorie, Prashant bhushan, M sharma (who has only activity of filing number of PIL only)the enemies of this country will have no problem in getting critical information about arms and equipment used by Indian army. Do this people has nation's interest at their heart ? This opportunists with vested interest only want to play dirty politics and want to settle person score without bothering about national interest.
Re: Re: Foolish argument
by Suresh on Nov 15, 2018 10:22 AM
Rightly said. We do not even discuss our salary with our friends, leave alone your neighbours and other extended family. Why? Because they can judge you and pass unsavoury comments and presume and that will not be good for relationship. If we do this with salary, think the level of secrecy that needs to be in dealing with matters of national security.
Re: Re: Foolish argument
by P S SHAH on Nov 15, 2018 09:44 AM
Bewada Theo, What you so called chowkidar has done will be know when the results of 2019 parliament elections are announced.
Re: Re: Re: Foolish argument
by LiveComment on Nov 15, 2018 10:23 AM
Then they will claim EVM tampering. They are already ready with their excuse for the loss in 2019.
Re: Re: Foolish argument
by Suresh on Nov 15, 2018 10:25 AM
Ignore Theo, he is moron. He uses a christian name and abuses modi to prove modi supporters and then in turn use that to paint Modi as anti Christians and Muslims. I so far, modi is the best rational PM who sees every one as citizens of india. Modi does not like any one from extracting undue advantage from India at the cost of India's growth. Call that Fascist or what ever.. India needs this phase to heal itself.
The AG's arguments appear to be shaky. How can a SEcrecy Agreement be secret in itself ? It only specifies what is to be secret and that must be known to all.
Arguments regarding pricing revelation are equally shaky. The Govt can easily reveal the individual costs of say "weapons package", "avionics ", " maintenance and uptime guarantee " etc, WITHOUT MORE DETAILS. Even if other nations take a guess at the weaponry, what does it matter ? Such data is available freely on web sites such as airforce-technology dot com. Any schoolboy can get this data.
Re: AG on Rafale
by P S SHAH on Nov 15, 2018 09:28 AM
Do you have more knowledge , experience and wisdom than Attorney General K K Venugopal ? First have some knowledge about him before writing nonsense about him.
Re: AG on Rafale
by paul theo on Nov 15, 2018 09:41 AM
RAJIV GANDHI WAS HOUNDED BY THESE WOLVES FOR SO CALLED 64 CRORE SCAM, NOW, 560 CRORE JET WAS PURCHASED FOR 1650 CRORES EACH, IF THE BANIYA PARTY HAD NEGOTIATED FOR 500 CRORES, THEN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN AN ACHEIVEMENT, BUT THIS IS ORGANISED LOOT.
