Singapore's great Lee Kuan Yew the grand master on China, USA and world who was in active politics for 50 years said India Is a Nation of Unfulfilled Greatness, he thought India showed promise of becoming a thriving society and a great example but failed as society due to caste based politics which hinders meritocracy... In India caste based hiring is state system, compared to Singapore where meritocracy is state system without which Singapore would not have survived. With meritocracy you can have level playing field for everyone.
Cast system divides the society further in more parts.
Re: Author is absoluely correct
by Sameer Shaikh on Oct 24, 2014 05:58 PM
We may not agree Lee Kuan Yew on all view, but since around world all great political ideologist, leaders, under table and on peodium called Lee Kuan Yew the worlds greatest statesman of 20th century. Below are quotes he said about India on interview of Robert D Blackwil
India has wasted decades in state planning and controls that have bogged it down in bureaucracy and corruption. A decentralised system would have allowed more centres like Bangalore and Bombay to grow and prosper. . . The caste system has been the enemy of meritocracy. . . India is a nation of unfulfilled greatness. Its potential has lain fallow, underused. There are limitations in the Indian constitutional system and the Indian political system that prevent it from going at high speed.Furthermore, populist democracy makes Indian policies less consistent, with regular changes in ruling parties. . . . India has poor infrastructure, high administrative and regulatory barriers to business, and large fiscal deficits, especially at the state level, that are a drag on investment and job creation.
India is not a real country. Instead, it is 32 separate nations that happen to be arrayed along the British rail line. The British came, conquered, established the Raj, incorporated under their rule an amalgam of 175 princely states, and ruled them with 1, 000 Englishmen and several tens of thousands of Indians brought up to behave like English.
Re: Re: Author is absoluely correct
by Sameer Shaikh on Oct 24, 2014 05:59 PM
I am against a society which has no sense of nurturing its best to rise to the top. I am against a feudal society where your birth decides where you stay in the pecking order. The example of that, par excellence, is India's caste system. India is an established civilisation. Nehru and Gandhi had a chance to do for India what I did for Singapore because of their enormous prestige, but they could not break the caste system. They could not break the habits.
Look at the construction industries in India and China, and you will know the difference between one that gets things done and another that does not get things done, but talks about things. . . . It is partly because India is such a diverse country - it is not one nation, but 32 different nations speaking 330 different dialects. . . . In China, it is 90 per cent Han Chinese all speaking the same language, with different accents, but reading the same script. If you stand up in Delhi and speak in English, out of 1. 2 billion people, maybe 200 million will understand you. If you speak in Hindi, maybe 250 million will understand you. If you speak in Tamil, 80 million people will understand you. So there is an enormous difference between the two countries . . . . We are comparing oranges and apples. . . . Let me not be misunderstood. The upper class in India is equal to any in the world but they face the same hurdles.
Re: Re: Author is absoluely correct
by Sameer Shaikh on Oct 24, 2014 06:00 PM
I am against a society which has no sense of nurturing its best to rise to the top. I am against a feudal society where your birth decides where you stay in the pecking order. The example of that, par excellence, is India's caste system. India is an established civilisation. Nehru and Gandhi had a chance to do for India what I did for Singapore because of their enormous prestige, but they could not break the caste system. They could not break the habits.
Look at the construction industries in India and China, and you will know the difference between one that gets things done and another that does not get things done, but talks about things. . . . It is partly because India is such a diverse country - it is not one nation, but 32 different nations speaking 330 different dialects. . . . In China, it is 90 per cent Han Chinese all speaking the same language, with different accents, but reading the same script. If you stand up in Delhi and speak in English, out of 1. 2 billion people, maybe 200 million will understand you. If you speak in Hindi, maybe 250 million will understand you. If you speak in Tamil, 80 million people will understand you. So there is an enormous difference between the two countries . . . . We are comparing oranges and apples. . . . Let me not be misunderstood. The upper class in India is equal to any in the world but they face the same hurdles.
Re: Re: Re: Author is absoluely correct
by Sameer Shaikh on Oct 24, 2014 06:03 PM
average Indian bureaucrat has not yet accepted that it is not a sin to make profits and become rich. The average Indian bureaucrat has little trust in India's business community. They view Indian businesspeople as money-grabbing opportunists who do not have the welfare of the country at heart, and all the more so if they are foreign.
China is focused on the US and just wants to keep the Indians at arm's length. I am not sure that India wants a piece of the consumer demand from China's growing middle class, because India is scared of the competition. The Chinese have offered the Indians a free trade agreement, but the Indians have not snapped at it because Chinese goods will go into India and compete. As long as there is freemarket bargaining, India will just have to learn to outbid China.
Indians will go at a tempo which is decided by their constitution, by their ethnic mix, by their voting patterns, and the resulting coalition governments, which makes for very difficult decision-making. India's political leaders are determined to reform, but the Indian bureaucracy has been slower and resistant to change. Regional jostling and corruption do not help. Furthermore, populist democracy makes Indian policies less consistent, with regular changes in ruling parties. . . . India has poor infrastructure, high administrative and regulatory barriers to business, and large fiscal deficits, especially at the state level, that are a drag on investment and job creation.
There is no evidence firstly to suggest that some fair skinned "Aryans" have actually invaded India... Secondly, the fact that caste system existed only in India is another load of trash. Caste system exists in other religions, and even in so called Western countries. Mr Bose should research into the origins of surnames like "Smith", "Wood", "Gold" etc... People will always find reasons to discriminate, caste or otherwise. It will take a lot of time but eventually the caste system will dissipate...
Re: A load of trash
by devedas bhaskar on Oct 25, 2014 02:24 PM
caste system existed only in india..this the truth! Heirarchy based on caste stinks...this exists only in india...'smith' 'wood' etc..are surnames and these people are not discrimnated against.Of course rich people in any nation get more respect...but thats not caste system..
Re: A load of trash
by Sanjay on Oct 25, 2014 06:20 AM
Aryans is not a skin color but was meant to name those who followed the Vedas. Even a shudra could be called a Aryan.
Re: Those who want to ban caste
by khokanchatterjee on Oct 25, 2014 08:57 AM
but why not free reservation brahman cast and sc /st got a gud facility there age limit and free reservation similarly all cast should be same preference for all the official work all casted poor human being available
In Modern India, there is lots of Discrimination based on Economic status, Property, Education, Marks and Percentage wise also there is discrimination, if we go outside they discriminate between Good Looking and ugly, Good and Bad behaviours, Rich and Poor, Fair and Dark, and so many other parameters.
We were Racist from the beginning based on Caste and Nature of work, now there is blatant discrimination and comparison in almost each and every field even between Relatives of the same family and with siblings.
Not only Caste system, but in all spheres of life there is discrimination, so don't complain about caste.
Only the lower castes have bad blood against upper castes inspite of getting reservation and other benefits.
belong to the so called upper castes have an ingrained belief that they are descended from a fairer skinned raxce.
This belief is a fallacy, considering that the great majority of Indians - upper castes as well as lower castes - have dark or very dark skin and have raxcial features closer to those of the negrito raxce than any other. It is only a minority segment - made up primarily of people of Punjab, Haryana, H.P, J&K, west U.P, etc. that has a truly mixed descent (fair skinned as well as dark skinned ancestry).
There is no other country in the world where dark skinned people think that they are raxcially superior to other dark skinned people and believe that they have a fair skinned ancestry.
Why, many of the Iyers of T.N, who are among the most persistent among such self-delusionists, are as dark as or sometimes darker than (and often uglier than) their so called low caste state mates!
A dark, flat nosed and thick lipped Iyer believing in earnest that he has fair skinned *Aryan* ancestry and trying hard to let others know about this *fact* at every turn is one of the most enduring comic acts that can be seen in the caste based spectacles in South India.
Bose is correct although he has a shade of hypocrisy in his statements, being based in Dubai. He would not dare to march in the Middle East or Asia against Islamic oppression of other religions, and neither would he be able to campaign against racism in Caucasian (USA, Britain, Europe, Americas) and Mongol dominated nations (Japan, Korea, China). He talks a lot of gibberish when India has better constitutional protection than most other countries. Nevertheless, caste system is bad and is currently vanishing in India. Racism is not vanishing from this world at all. Nonetheless, caste system should be abolished in India because we follow the western democratic model; but at the same time, we should not indirectly inherit racism from western nations.
Re: Bose is not quite correct
by Mind Clear on Oct 24, 2014 07:14 AM
India never had a social renaissance after it got Independence. Everything related to Hinduism was declared communal and the country declared itself secular. As a result all kinds of distortions that had happened because of numerous invasions before Independence was never corrected. People's ability for change and innovation was never believed in by the government. Lot of energy was wasted.
I agree with Mr. K K Bose that the castes in India should be legally abolished.
Dr. Ambedkhar suggested 'Annihilation of Castes' with best of intentions. There were some points to be refined in his proposal but the basic spirit was commendable. Had it been taken for consideration, he himself would have helped in improving it and made it pragmatic. But those who were interested in keeping the caste system intact for selfish reasons, rejected Dr. Ambedkhar's excellent ideas. Mr. Nehru was the uncrowned king of India after Independence and had he thought it fit, a few objections from some ill-informed upper caste people would not have mattered at all.
As Mr. K K Bose has pointed out, the politicians have intentionally perpetuated the caste system. They simply continued the British policy of 'divide and rule' and political strategies; and found in the caste system a convenient tool. Unpardonably they did not promote national identity and patriotism in the minds of all Indian citizens; instead, worked against it by raising unnecessary issues, like the imposition of Hindi. They fostered regional pressure groups thriving on caste politics.
Caste system is not the making only of the Brahmins. It is a social institution accepted and operated by the entire society for centuries. But it has become anachronistic. Many Brahmins had voiced against it long before some politicians gave lip service to it. It should be abolished.
I agree with Mr. K K Bose that the castes in India should be legally abolished.
Dr. Ambedkhar suggested 'Annihilation of Castes'with best of intentions. There were some points to be refined in his proposal but the basic spirit was justifiable. Had it been taken for consideration, he himself would have helped in improving it and made it pragmatic. But those who were interested in keeping the caste system in tact for selfish reasons, rejected Dr. Ambedkhar's excellent ideas. Mr. Nehru was the uncrowned king of India after Independence and had he thought it fit, a few objections from some ill-informed upper caste people would not have mattered at all.
As Mr. K K Bose has pointed out that the politicians of India have perpetuated the caste system for their own benefit. They simply continued the British policy of 'divide and rule' and political strategies; and found in the caste system a convenient tool. It was an unpardonable sin on their part not to have thought of promoting national identity and patriotism in the minds of all Indian citizens. Instead, they worked against it by raising several issues, like the imposition of Hindi. They fostered regional pressure groups thriving on caste politics.
Caste system is not the the making only of the Brahmins. It is a social institution accepted and operated by the entire society for centuries. Many Brahmins had voiced against it long before some politicians gave lip service to it. It should be abolished.
