I am having highest regard for those 2 youngsters who bacame martyrs for a cause...I salute and appreciate them.. I am agreeing whatever u telling, but some practical things r there we have to think of especially in Indian social circumstances... Till some years back, Bombay was a safe place for women, but now that is not the case... What ever may be the law or rule, human being is the most cruel and unpredictable animal and will do anything in the case he is supported or motivated by something, a rare behaviour even in wild animals.. I am not telling he should not take girlfriends the nearby a bar not...I am telling we should be little more careful while taking them such places and bit more prepared...to face any eventuality becoz as u told this is India..a acountry which is pretending that a free nation... Another thing is about bystanders...who dont know about the history of quarrel won't try to intrvene it...and moreover the legal complicities will block them from such interventions..until & unless these things happening to our own sisters or wives or girlfriends...
Re: Great Martyrs
by Force Khukri on Nov 08, 2011 01:42 PM
first and foremost is to exercise restraint... lewd remarks should be politely ignored and quickly move off the place ....if its a regular menace then authorities and friends have to be informed... never go out alone. at no point verbal or physical duell with miscreants is recommended.
alas ..if even without any provocation, miscreants turn physically abusive then there is anyhow no option but to defend.
Re: Re: Great Martyrs
by Argumentative Indian on Nov 08, 2011 01:56 PM
BB & FK, I agree with both of you. The above case got colored because there's the social angle of GF & Bars.
But in a slightly different way we all, or at least I face such situations, all the time, in daily life in a metro. Here are some examples:
1) When I'm driving in my lane, peacefully and fast, some Bl..dy Id..t, driving and yapping on the phone will swerve right in without an indicator and proceed to drive slowly!!!
2) I take a rickshaw, when arriving from out of town, and I know the guy will have a faulty meter. Its when the fellow is also rude, that one loses it completely.
3) You get into a bus / train, someone just pushes you aside, just on might is right and moves ahead.
4) You stand in a queue (this happened with me in Mumbai Airport!) and someone jumps in front of you. Its clear from his body language that the SOB's NOT stressed or late for a flight, just being chalu.
I protest in all cases, and in the last case I pulled the fellow back to the end of the line. But I'm careful of where I am. An airport teeming with armed guards is a generally safe place.
Re: Great Martyrs
by Harish Menon on Nov 08, 2011 02:15 PM
"Everybody can't be afraid, otherwise fear would never let go of us" -- I think this says it all. There is a very thin line between discretion and apathy. If every one just decides to shut up, they get the psychological upper hand and the problem intensifies.
cannot appreciate what these lads did too ....discretion is the better part of valour.... the lads didnt expect spiralling of the situation ...someone should tone down .... those criminals with backup will never calm down..so these lads should have used better sense..unfortunate
These goons dared to murder two young men in Public because they know that can get away with murder in public as the people are scared of beccoming witnesses for fear of harrasment by Police and goons both. The law is weak. Without witness Police will not arrest the murderers and they can go scot free to commit more eve teasings and murders.
After these two boys (the victims) beat up the miscreants, they decided lets get out of here, right now.
The miscreants got a good thrashing and had run away to call others / call for help in Goondagardi. On returning they would find that the persons have vanished. The goondas would firstly feel afraid, that there are people in Mumbai who can & will give them a solid thrashing if they cross the line. Second they would have lost face in the locality. The panwallah, some waiter, some silent resident in a nearby highrise, would have gossiped about the day these goondas got walloped. Even ordinary people would have pushed back, over a period of time.
NOW, these goondas have emerged as villian no. 1s. They have successfully KILLED the persons who challenged them. Knowing India's slowdiciary, it will take ages for any concrete result, if at all.
In the meantime if they come out on bail, they will be emboldened to terrorize innocent people even more, since they are now open air killers. Even if they end up behind bars, their brethren will now have a new street respect, since some of them managed to show the innocent citizens their place.
I feel its one's duty to defend oneself / innocents. However, the deed having been performed, its one's duty to move away from trouble ASAP.
Unarmed combat / self defense institutions frequently emphasize the need to walk away from trouble whenever possible, always prefer flight to fight, unless the latter is inevitable to defend one's own or an innocents, PHYSICAL person.
Beating up someone for causing mental anguish is NOT self defense.
In any case, even if you have acted and beaten up some one, or even genuinely defended yourself, it is common sense to get out immediately from the area, because you don't know who is watching and what reinforcements are on the way.
MJ songs 'beat it'. listen to this. this song means when such situation arise like fight, argument. just escape it, run away. Having said that. we also need to fight these eve teasers as society as whole. moment this mob see a boy and girl close they make fun. reason is simple they themselve never get it. so feel jealousy. best way to control this is encourage many guys and girl do things openly. this will become comon. then eve teasers themselve will be with girls. so need of jealousy and hatred. indian society have become very hypcrite in name of protecting culture. truth is shiva, krishna themselves were erotic. nothing wrong in it. give freedom to boys and girls do whatever they want to do openly. everything will fall in place. try to control it, supress it and the disease will continue. indian will continue to behave like animals.
Re: Re: beat it.
by manoj kumar on Nov 08, 2011 01:16 PM
chakroborty, people like u r reason why india is sad state. fake hypocrite. do u think i dont believe in decency..
Re: Re: Re: Re: beat it.
by Argumentative Indian on Nov 08, 2011 01:36 PM
Sandipan, perhaps someday, you will realize there is a difference between xes and love.
There is a difference between momentary pleasure and a relationship.
Perhaps you will also realize, there is nothing particularly wrong with either.
It is called adult consensus.
However, we divert. I don't think the victims in the above case were having xes at the time of the incidence, that would be extreme multi - tasking xes & buying pan at the same time.
Secondly, I didn't understand from Manoj's post anywhere that he's talking about having xes on the streets. I understood he was talking about more freedom to mix, have fun between the sexes in public. I assume the physical xes act would be restricted to private.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: beat it.
by Argumentative Indian on Nov 08, 2011 01:38 PM
BTW, I really don't know any country where it is common to see the xes act on the streets. In fact the French are so touchy about streets being only for traveling / driving, that they recently stopped people of a particular religion from praying on the streets!
Re: Re: beat it.
by Argumentative Indian on Nov 08, 2011 01:30 PM
@ Chakraborty:
Here's a quick 101 on modern civilization.
Adults have inalienable freedoms including the right to choose, within the framework of laws.
Laws are made by adults themselves, after thorough delibrations (presumably).
Police are one arm of the state to enforce the law.
In some places, its called nudist colonies / beaches, it is OK to not wear clothes.
Do you think you are better off / smarter / more evolved because you wear clothes? OK. Thats your choice, you have a right to feel you're smarter.
The police does not control, peoples' behaviour. The police ensure that the freedoms allowed by law are not hampered by anyone.
For example, the law allows people to enjoy music. However, the law also allows people the right to peace. So when someone breaks the law by playing music beyond a certain volume at a certain hour, the police are required to step in to enforce the law.
Re: Re: Re: Re: beat it.
by Argumentative Indian on Nov 08, 2011 01:46 PM
I don't think its smart, but I don't think its a disaster either. I just think, its personal choice.
Well, I don't stay nude, largely because I'm personally conservative, and also because I'm sensitive to other peoples' feelings, and would not want to torture them by showing the nightmare that passes for my physique these days.
Infact, I am not even an advocate of the Genji Pore or Khali Gaye Boshe Acche school of casual dressing, my idea of casual is kurtas.
I personally haven't had xes for a while, open / closed, essentially due to workload, family obligations and advancing age. But in an earlier time also, I don't recall making out in the open.
However, I don't think conservative people, who are stuck with the modern social concepts received from the British masters from the 1860s to 1930s are any smarter than those who don't subscribe to these views.
The last time I took my parents to Hiranandani Gardens (Mumbai) in the early 2000s, my mother spent more time openly crticizing, staring at (and generally being a Jandrel Bangali Mahila) the young couples enjoying each other's pleasures (necking & petting, not having xes) than the very obvious beauty of the Garden.
Interestingly, many young couples in the open in Mumbai are middle class man and wife, who share a small house with a lot of people and find privacy in the open with strangers, rather than at home with other family members!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: beat it.
by Sandipan chakraborty on Nov 08, 2011 02:26 PM
Dressing dznt mattr, its attitude,xtremes r bad be it Liberal or COnservativ.
