This is not to demean the feats of either Shivaji or Ranjit Singh. But Colonel Athale, have you ever heard of Lachit Barphukan. This brave and shrewd general from Assam successfully thwarted Mughal attempts to annex the Ahom kingdom. The Battle of Saraighat is probably one of the most interesting naval battles in India War History.
Re: Lachit Barphukan
by C M on Jan 14, 2011 05:33 AM
He sure is less written warrior of bharat..very brave and intellegent man of his time...its "budphukan" i think...
The Marathas had definetly forgotten about crafty Shivaja Maratha . Their main mistake was what they did with the Jatts after abadali and the mougals were roited when abdhali tried to take over in the a couple of years back .That time abdali accaped with his life .In that war after roiting the mugals and abdali they surrounded Delhi .The jats who were mainly Sikhs wanted the marathas to allow them to plunder and loot Delhi .The marathas disagreed .After that the Sikhs never ever trusted the marathas and as time went by their difference increased .
Re: SIMBA100
by charanjeet assi on Jan 14, 2011 05:34 AM
and who told you this about sikhs...Marathas underestimated sikhs and never got in touch with the Sikhs..
Re: the history i was never told by anyone
by doubt s on Jan 14, 2011 12:07 AM
--shivaji raised his army by recruiting peasants and other lower castes including untouchables,also poor muslims, upper castes, brahmins etc. many maratha sardars basically from so called OBC castes . he almost practiced secularism. abolished zamindari in his territory.didnt hesitate changing his brahmin ministers. established strict code that no matter what in conquered area enemy women & non hindu places of worship must be respected & protected, which was unwritten rule for maratha armies later on-- basically ideal communist icon --but wait -- he also called bluff of islamists.carried public reconversion of his general from islam to hinduism & founded something called hindavi swarajya
Re: Re: the history i was never told by anyone
by doubt s on Jan 14, 2011 12:29 AM
--later on the peshwas- the maratha prime ministers(brahmins)- took control, who are supposed to have broader pan indian vision. lets see, -- bajirav peshwa is one of few generals in human history who never lost a battle(and he fought a lot of them). he conquered delhi. cleared area till afghan border. he started eating non veg. he didnt mind drinking. he was probably most powerful man on earth at that time. but he was supposedly declared outcast by some brahmins of pune because he fell for mastani (Samsherbahadur in above article is son of mastani and bajirav). --later on under later peshwas(brahmins) especially after panipat and in last days of maratha empire, extreme brahminism was practiced in pune. lower castes were treated worse than animals. all sardars started behaving like independent rulers,no one trusting each other. no one obeying the peshwas. they either fought with british alone died without helping each others or made treaties with british not thinking beyond boundaries of their kingdoms. -- british did not conquer india with white armies. they did it recruiting locals as mercinaries-- again from all castes
Re: the history i was never told by anyone
by doubt s on Jan 14, 2011 12:29 AM
--later on the peshwas- the maratha prime ministers(brahmins)- took control, who are supposed to have broader pan indian vision. lets see, -- bajirav peshwa is one of few generals in human history who never lost a battle(and he fought a lot of them). he conquered delhi. cleared area till afghan border. he started eating non veg. he didnt mind drinking. he was probably most powerful man on earth at that time. but he was supposedly declared outcast by some brahmins of pune because he fell for mastani (Samsherbahadur in above article is son of mastani and bajirav). --later on under later peshwas(brahmins) especially after panipat and in last days of maratha empire, extreme brahminism was practiced in pune. lower castes were treated worse than animals. all sardars started behaving like independent rulers,no one trusting each other. no one obeying the peshwas. they either fought with british alone died without helping each others or made treaties with british not thinking beyond boundaries of their kingdoms. -- british did not conquer india with white armies. they did it recruiting locals as mercinaries-- again from all castes
Re: TippuSultan
by Pro Indian on Jan 14, 2011 02:31 AM
thanks to congr that declared him a freedom fighter. 2moro it may be kasab who is fighting to aviod death penaly be declared as a freedom fighter by the same cong. Anything for votes. In the eyes of Madam and R baba other Indian freedom fighters were communal but Tipu was secular as he is a vote bank.
Re: TippuSultan
by zxz on Jan 14, 2011 12:12 AM
You may not be aware that Tipu Sultan was one ruler who was considered the last resistance to British rule, and fought valiantly till he was betrayed by Mir Sadiq. He did not flee anywhere and fought like a wariror.
In terms of vision, he was well aware of global movements and sought the friendship of a new nation then: USA. He also tried to develop armament factory to create indigenous rockets. He knew western techonlogical advancements were the key to thier success and did in his powers to redress the balance. Everybody was a warlord in those times including the hallowed Marathas & rajputs.
Re: Re: TippuSultan
by Sam Nath on Jan 14, 2011 02:17 AM
How many people did Tippu convrted by the sword? Get the fact together. Anybody will fight for his throne.
Re: You
by Pro Indian on Jan 14, 2011 02:37 AM
Shivaji Maharajs contribution to freedom and protection of the people who suffered under the Mughal actrocities can not be forgotten. He was a God for common people, who came like a thunder lightning and wiped the Mughals out of the western region. HE was the saviour of milloins who lived under the actrocities of the Mughals.
Re: You
by C M on Jan 14, 2011 05:30 AM
Bob u need a brain around ur vicinity of 100 miles...find one then comment on marathis or hindus or indians or anyone...born stupid...
Re: You
by JGN on Jan 13, 2011 10:40 PM
SobMarley, had it not been for ChhatrapatiShivaji entire India would have been convrtd by Aurangazeb. PlReadSome HistoryBefore blurtingOut.
Re: Re: Re: You
by this that on Jan 13, 2011 10:50 PM
HEHE HE IS NOT MARATHI AND NEITHER AM I BUT WHY ARE YOU SO AGAINST MARATHI? WHAT HAS MARATHI DONE TO YOU?
DOES SHIVAJI RULE MORE PART OF HOMELAND THAN QUEEN?
Re: Re: Re: Re: You
by panduranga vittal on Jan 14, 2011 07:14 AM
ok where is now queen now? Her money is hardly one thenth of that of ambani? Her land is one thenth of that of india. Briton has 300% of its GDP as loan, one of the most indebted countreis in the world, though still a very rich country. India has only 17% of its GDP as loan, though we are very poor. There economy may collapse. OUr economy is highly stable.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You
by buddycig@rediffmail.com on Jan 14, 2011 09:51 AM
THEIR PEOPLES GET QUALITY INFRASTRUCTURE QUALITY FOOD QUALITY LIVING STANDARD. OUR PEOPLES LACK 2 MEALS A DAY.COME OUT OF UR STUPID THINKING THAT INDIA IS SHINING GO INTO THE HEART OF OUR INDIA WHICH IS VILLAGES U WILL STOP TALKING ABT STABLE ECONOMY (IF U CARRY A HEART IN UR BODY)
I HATS OF TO CHTRAPATHI SHIVAJI AND BAJIRAO PESHWA IN THIER FIGHTS TACTICS. THEY WHERE NEVER GOOD STRATEGIST AND THIER OVERCONFIDENCE HAS GIVEN RISE TO DELHI RULERS AND BRITISH. IT WAS TOO LATE FOR TATYA TOPE TO REUNITE ALL INDIAN KINGS TO RAISE THE MUTINY 1987 AT THAT TIME BRITISH WAS RULING HALF OF THE INDIA AND THEY WHERE CLEVER TO DEMORALISE AND CORRUPT THE RULER TO BE ON THIER SIDE
Re: MARATHAS WHERE GOOD FIGHTER NOT STRATEGIST
by this that on Jan 13, 2011 10:14 PM
THE IDEA IS, IF THERE ARE BARBARIANS AROUND, DO NOT GO GOOD. GO BAD, HIT AND RUN AND BREAK THEM DOWN PIECE BY PIECE. THATS GOOD.
Re: Imp Lession learned !
by Sam Nath on Jan 14, 2011 02:21 AM
Sujit, United with who, with the enemies? Did you not see the division of our country being united by Gndi?
Re: indian map shows no Kashmir/ Ladakh/Sikkim/ Arunachal
by Sujit Jain on Jan 13, 2011 09:38 PM
There was no international lines & technical details of the map available during that time, but those territories were ruled by some of the Hindu kings just like the whole Indian regions were ruled by different rulers/kings !
The idea of nationalism was not as such in those days as it is now, so to look at thise events as from today's prism is incorrect. States borderswere fluid, and changed with little proviocation. India -post Aurungzeb had lost central authority, and in this vacuum, Nadir Shah came as a looter and massacred Delhi. The marathas were never more than unrefined provincials who simply never grew up in terms of gravitas to rule. They could fight guerilla wars but once the role got reversed and they had a large army to carry and feed, that was out of their league. They never could have ruled India.
One more point: Babur was invited by Rana Sangha: a lionized character in Hindu view of history. So how can that be explained by Mr. Athale?
The idea to see Hindu rulers as indigenous patriots and Muslims as villians is what has seared India into two. Even today rulers such as Tipu Sultan are not given their due, in terms of foresight and vision that was lacking in most post Mughal rulers including Marathas.
Re: Perspective
by this that on Jan 13, 2011 09:02 PM
SO IS THE ABSENCE OF CRITICISM ON PARTS WHERE DELHI SULTANS SIDED WITH AFGHANS IN SPITE OF REPEATED FRIENDLY ASSERTIONS.
Re: Perspective
by Kalyanasundaram Venkatesh on Jan 14, 2011 03:53 AM
No, Rana Sanga never invited Babur; in fact, Rana Sanga was totally against Afgans and thats why Rana Sanga fought against Babur at Kanwa but one of his army chief betrayed him at the crucial situation during the war and that gave the best chance to Babur to win that Kanwa war. Defeated Rana Sanga escaped to hills but still he had the burning desire to get rid of Afghans. After his death, his son Rana Prathap Singh continued to fight with Moghuls until his death.
Re: Re: Perspective
by zxz on Jan 14, 2011 08:52 PM
Its a historical fact that rana sangha sent a letter to Babur inviting him to India to take on Lodhi. He had assumed that Babur would loot and then return back, like his ancestor Timur Lang. It was when Babur deicded to stay put, that led to the Rajput confederacy to take on him. Just because facts do not suit your version, so they don't exist is not the way to read history.
Re: Perspective
by doubt s on Jan 13, 2011 10:18 PM
"hindavi swarajya"(not hindurashtra) was indeed declared goal of marathas since times of shivaji. and whatever the modern idea of nationalism, state borders, hind here refers to the area aasetu-himachala (from himalayas to southern tip of indian ocean). but yes it can be argued that marathas coould not have ruled india properly.and that it was the fate of india to hav british rule. this is because of the cast factor and a different story altogether.
Re: Perspective
by andrew lachman on Jan 13, 2011 09:51 PM
India is for hindu,God created it that way,and it will be so again--that is all hindu lands.The only thing is we will have to go through the fire,that is a good thing.
Re: Re: Perspective
by charanjeet assi on Jan 14, 2011 05:47 AM
thats where problem starts... India is for hindus... then there are castes in hindus..every religion, caste has good and bad people...many people from various castes have fought for India... what will you say them... fight for is when we need you and then leave India...
Re: Perspective
by jai telangana on Jan 13, 2011 09:09 PM
tippu sultan was mass murderer of Christians and Hindus. Don't drag that criminal here watching that sanjay khan's serial
Re: Re: Perspective
by JGN on Jan 13, 2011 10:57 PM
TippuSultan was a typical WarLord of that time. He was fighting with the ZamorinsOfCalicut, TheNizamOfHyderabad, TheMarathas and TheBritishers. He was only interested in protecting his smallSultanate. He was actually an upstart (hisFatherWas theChieftain of theKingsOfMysore and ururped theirKingdom). So the NizamsRefused to given theirDaughter to him inMarriage!!
He had committed unspeakable atrocities in Malabar during 30years of his occupation and had to finally flee from Plaghat tucking tail between theLegs, never to return toMalabar till hisDeath.
