Yesterday Agnivesh in a TV discussion said that NAC and IAC had agreed on 90% of the Lokpal Bill draft in a joint meeting held on 3and 4th of April....but he could not justify in which case what wasa the nbeed to go for a fast unto death agitation if there was an agreement between UPA govtr NAC and IAC??? MYSTERIOUS!!!!!
Re: The drama of FAST
by Ram Sharma on Apr 23, 2011 06:54 PM
This agreement has been reached only after Anna's agitation, which got overwhelming support from the people.
The way political parties are scared of the Lok pal bill it will be a good idea to put up well known non corrupt civil activist as Independent candidates and make them win .Lets see what happens if Goverment is not run by Corrupt politicians at least for FIVE years
It looks as if there are no rules and no constitution. everything is in place and issue was always in implementation. What happens if a new bill is passed? the change needs to come from within. Are we genuinely paying taxes? even a simple question. How many of us return money if some one gives you more than what you deserved by error? How many of us dont use office resources for personal use? we comfortably criticize sitting in front of our PCs. Are we supporting any anna's in our surroundings if we dont fight for anything? if you have an issue with a realtor will you join others and fight or try to get settlment secretly?
Re: This is a Joke
by param singh on Apr 23, 2011 06:10 PM
So whats your point we should not support Anna. If you think so your are wrong "when your beloved (politicians/Netas) looting country and your tax goes for their luxury instead of making INDIA bright than you have right to make move. If you using or getting little benefit than its your problem Anna has nothing to do with it because we INDIANS are basically greedy and we come to compromise easily. Politicians do not have right for corruption the stage came because Nehru was greedy and so Gandhi too when India divided they did not agreed to give power to Muhammad Ali Jinnah knowing that he will live no more because of CANCER and he died September 11, 1948.There are so much to say and some you know. So do not make public confuse by giving that type of statement if you are using office resources than you are corrupt not me and not other brothers & sisters like me. You are not watch dog here you are just comfortable like others who sitting in front of pc & writing against corruption. Make your will strong and try to be good citizen and do something for human kind.
Re: Re: This is a Joke
by explorer on Apr 23, 2011 07:34 PM
The will is strong and its fulfilment is in the hands of people. At this point, we are all corrupt at various levels. the change happens we all change. The point that many of us are not understanding is, if not this bill there is already a constitution and all rules are clearly defined. Example: If there is a red light you need to stop and wait for Green Signal. And none of us follow that and Police cant stop you. Now you come up with a bill stating that if people are violating signals they will be punished within 1 year and there will be a neutral committee that oversees this. Did you understand how funny is it? If not I am off.
Re: Re: Re: This is a Joke
by param singh on Apr 23, 2011 09:05 PM
Id you say we all are corrupt so sorry you are corrupt not others and that example that you given is very poor Traffic rules are different in various states some charge money if you break and some take RC and DL ,if someone charged money he will never dare to break again. DO you know how many times our Constitution changed when it made first basically it is not made it is just cut & paste of various Countries and Baba Ambedkar just translate if If you talk about LOKPAl bill vs JAN LOKPAL bill you could see the difference ,just a example that govt. LOKPAL bill says Punishment for corruption will be minimum 6 months and maximum up-to 7 years and JAN LOPKPAL bill (say Anna's bill ) says The punishment should be minimum 5 years and maximum up-to life imprisonment so which one you gonna to support ours or Govt. ones . I do not want you to be in or off but i want right attitude and make things right ,changes made for better. Check that also and decide yourself, In 1968, a Lokpal Bill was presented for the first time in the fourth Lok Sabha. The House passed it in 1969. But while it was pending, LS was dissolved.
The Bill was revived in 1971, 1977, 1985, 1989, 1996, 1998 and 2001. But each time, it was referred to some committee of Parliament. The government has now prepared a rough draft of the Bill.
Re: Re: Re: This is a Joke
by param singh on Apr 23, 2011 09:04 PM
Id you say we all are corrupt so sorry you are corrupt not others and that example that you given is very poor Traffic rules are different in various states some charge money if you break and some take RC and DL ,if someone charged money he will never dare to break again. DO you know how many times our Constitution changed when it made first basically it is not made it is just cut & paste of various Countries and Baba Ambedkar just translate if If you talk about LOKPAl bill vs JAN LOKPAL bill you could see the difference ,just a example that govt. LOKPAL bill says Punishment for corruption will be minimum 6 months and maximum up-to 7 years and JAN LOPKPAL bill (say Anna's bill ) says The punishment should be minimum 5 years and maximum up-to life imprisonment so which one you gonna to support ours or Govt. ones . I do not want you to be in or off but i want right attitude and make things right ,changes made for better. Check that also and decide yourself, In 1968, a Lokpal Bill was presented for the first time in the fourth Lok Sabha. The House passed it in 1969. But while it was pending, LS was dissolved.
The Bill was revived in 1971, 1977, 1985, 1989, 1996, 1998 and 2001. But each time, it was referred to some committee of Parliament. The government has now prepared a rough draft of the Bill.
Re: Re: Re: Re: This is a Joke
by explorer on Apr 24, 2011 06:53 PM
Hello, The reason why I gave the example of Traffic is because we are all there to identify ourselves. the way we behave in the traffic shows the culture we have and howmuch we care for others. We cant wait for 10 seconds and overlook the signal. I buy a car of 10 Lakshs but want to save money by avoiding U turn and go in wrong way. I as a pedestrian want to cross the road from any place. I park my vehicle wherever I want. and I dont even give way to ambulance. You gave a lot of examples of constitution. Can you also show how much did we improve through that? One disclaimer I want to say is I have nothing against Anna and in fact he is supported by Gali brothers, Chandrababu Naidu, Karunanidhi and ask any politician, everyone says they are all behind him. That itself shows what is the meaning of this bill. The implementation is the issue. You keep changing the process as if there is a flaw in the process. Where as there is a fault with the people who are supposed to execute. The point where I am against is, there is already something defined and let us fight for implementing that rather than coming out with another bill.
Re: Re: Re: Re: This is a Joke
by explorer on Apr 24, 2011 06:52 PM
Hello, The reason why I gave the example of Traffic is because we are all there to identify ourselves. the way we behave in the traffic shows the culture we have and howmuch we care for others. We cant wait for 10 seconds and overlook the signal. I buy a car of 10 Lakshs but want to save money by avoiding U turn and go in wrong way. I as a pedestrian want to cross the road from any place. I park my vehicle wherever I want. and I dont even give way to ambulance. You gave a lot of examples of constitution. Can you also show how much did we improve through that? One disclaimer I want to say is I have nothing against Anna and in fact he is supported by Gali brothers, Chandrababu Naidu, Karunanidhi and ask any politician, everyone says they are all behind him. That itself shows what is the meaning of this bill. The implementation is the issue. You keep changing the process as if there is a flaw in the process. Where as there is a fault with the people who are supposed to execute. The point where I am against is, there is already something defined and let us fight for implementing that rather than coming out with another bill.
Re: Re: Re: Re: This is a Joke
by explorer on Apr 24, 2011 06:53 PM
Hello, The reason why I gave the example of Traffic is because we are all there to identify ourselves. the way we behave in the traffic shows the culture we have and howmuch we care for others. We cant wait for 10 seconds and overlook the signal. I buy a car of 10 Lakshs but want to save money by avoiding U turn and go in wrong way. I as a pedestrian want to cross the road from any place. I park my vehicle wherever I want. and I dont even give way to ambulance. You gave a lot of examples of constitution. Can you also show how much did we improve through that? One disclaimer I want to say is I have nothing against Anna and in fact he is supported by Gali brothers, Chandrababu Naidu, Karunanidhi and ask any politician, everyone says they are all behind him. That itself shows what is the meaning of this bill. The implementation is the issue. You keep changing the process as if there is a flaw in the process. Where as there is a fault with the people who are supposed to execute. The point where I am against is, there is already something defined and let us fight for implementing that rather than coming out with another bill.
Re: Re: Re: Re: This is a Joke
by explorer on Apr 24, 2011 06:53 PM
Hello, The reason why I gave the example of Traffic is because we are all there to identify ourselves. the way we behave in the traffic shows the culture we have and howmuch we care for others. We cant wait for 10 seconds and overlook the signal. I buy a car of 10 Lakshs but want to save money by avoiding U turn and go in wrong way. I as a pedestrian want to cross the road from any place. I park my vehicle wherever I want. and I dont even give way to ambulance. You gave a lot of examples of constitution. Can you also show how much did we improve through that? One disclaimer I want to say is I have nothing against Anna and in fact he is supported by Gali brothers, Chandrababu Naidu, Karunanidhi and ask any politician, everyone says they are all behind him. That itself shows what is the meaning of this bill. The implementation is the issue. You keep changing the process as if there is a flaw in the process. Where as there is a fault with the people who are supposed to execute. The point where I am against is, there is already something defined and let us fight for implementing that rather than coming out with another bill.
Re: Re: This is a Joke
by explorer on Apr 23, 2011 07:33 PM
The will is strong and its fulfilment is in the hands of people. At this point, we are all corrupt at various levels. the change happens we all change. The point that many of us are not understanding is, if not this bill there is already a constitution and all rules are clearly defined. Example: If there is a red light you need to stop and wait for Green Signal. And none of us follow that and Police cant stop you. Now you come up with a bill stating that if people are violating signals they will be punished within 1 year and there will be a neutral committee that oversees this. Did you understand how funny is it? If not I am off.
Re: Re: This is a Joke
by explorer on Apr 23, 2011 07:34 PM
The will is strong and its fulfilment is in the hands of people. At this point, we are all corrupt at various levels. the change happens we all change. The point that many of us are not understanding is, if not this bill there is already a constitution and all rules are clearly defined. Example: If there is a red light you need to stop and wait for Green Signal. And none of us follow that and Police cant stop you. Now you come up with a bill stating that if people are violating signals they will be punished within 1 year and there will be a neutral committee that oversees this. Did you understand how funny is it? If not I am off.
Re: This is a Joke
by param singh on Apr 23, 2011 09:06 PM
Id you say we all are corrupt so sorry you are corrupt not others and that example that you given is very poor Traffic rules are different in various states some charge money if you break and some take RC and DL ,if someone charged money he will never dare to break again. DO you know how many times our Constitution changed when it made first basically it is not made it is just cut & paste of various Countries and Baba Ambedkar just translate if If you talk about LOKPAl bill vs JAN LOKPAL bill you could see the difference ,just a example that govt. LOKPAL bill says Punishment for corruption will be minimum 6 months and maximum up-to 7 years and JAN LOPKPAL bill (say Anna's bill ) says The punishment should be minimum 5 years and maximum up-to life imprisonment so which one you gonna to support ours or Govt. ones . I do not want you to be in or off but i want right attitude and make things right ,changes made for better. Check that also and decide yourself, In 1968, a Lokpal Bill was presented for the first time in the fourth Lok Sabha. The House passed it in 1969. But while it was pending, LS was dissolved.
The Bill was revived in 1971, 1977, 1985, 1989, 1996, 1998 and 2001. But each time, it was referred to some committee of Parliament. The government has now prepared a rough draft of the Bill.
Re: This is a Joke
by guy giggling on Apr 24, 2011 09:40 AM
You mistake human frailities for corruption. How can you compare somebody using the office phone once in a while for personal use and a government official demanding 100 bucks to do something for which he gets a monthly salary and a pension after retirement. The very situation where we are afraid to fight a realtor is a direct consequence of corruption. If the police were not corrupt, we would lodge a complaint withe the police. No need to fight. See, the very situation where we have to fight for our daily needs, like clean water, transparent governance, these are all a result of the 60 years of corrupt rule by the most corrupt party in the world.
Re: Re: This is a Joke
by explorer on Apr 24, 2011 07:01 PM
Dear Sir, If we think these are all small things, thats where the corruption grow. You can do only this much and you are doing. and there are others who can do much bigger wrongs and they also have the explanation like what you are making. You also say Police are corrupt and do you think this bill will change it? Where as see how many people support you if you fight the police.If you fight in a Govt office against a corruption the guys behind you will teach you to go and file a complaint because they have urgency to complete their task. This is the world where you are. While you support Anna Hazare, also support such cases where someone is fighting for justice in your surroundings. Supporting Anna by posting something is easy.
Re: Re: This is a Joke
by Ram Sharma on Apr 23, 2011 07:12 PM
Live in presnt not in past. Country boundries go on changing in history due to various reasons.
Re: Re: This is a Joke
by Ram Sharma on Apr 23, 2011 07:13 PM
Live in presnt not in past. Country boundries go on changing in history due to various reasons.
Re: Re: This is a Joke
by Ram Sharma on Apr 23, 2011 07:13 PM
Live in presnt not in past. Country boundries go on changing in history due to various reasons.
Re: Re: Re: This is a Joke
by param singh on Apr 23, 2011 08:45 PM
well said Mr.Sharma i like your point ,many of us did not know how many times our constitution changed after made.
Re: This is a Joke
by indgold on Apr 23, 2011 05:03 PM
if everybody fights it becomes chaos, that is why we choose leaders... so stop nonsense, let us try to support him for curbing the corruption..
Re: This is a Joke
by indgold on Apr 23, 2011 05:02 PM
if everybody fights it becomes chaos, that is why we choose leaders... so stop nonsense, let us try to support him for curbing the corruption..
Re: Re: This is a Joke
by explorer on Apr 23, 2011 05:04 PM
In addition, you also support the mini Hazares around you. And start from yourself and try to be genuine. No need to convince me or others of Rediff. Convince yourself.
lack of transferency,no record,not identies,not system of accountiblity,check, cash always give freedom to use freely, ban whole cash from govt dept as private, every transaction should have reciept,every shop to hotel to industries should have stock register manned electronically directly connwected with tax deptt, whole people should use atm,cellphone,credit card to pay money, there should be great accountablity on judges, lawyer,doctor, whole record should on lines, and on computer,no one should pay cash, there should be work income dpt to give help to needy against employing them get retrieve payment if thy dnot find work,govt has to make sure every citizen earn much to survie, enjoy minimum essential of life and tax above 10 lakhs, with making tax payee have more incentive to pay more and secure their life with paid tax whenever thy feel economic hardship crediting directly to their account, if someone do fraud he should be fine 10 time more and put in his account whenever he earnor sell property his fine should be deducted accordingly,give people respect and allow them to grow, govt should behave like fathermother helping land, like i feel at newzealand where anyone can get help from govt , pay lateron,,whole police mentality should be changed,more communities be held responsible for local area,they should trained psychologically, make to participate in local comunities and whole people should be helped by communities network
Re: root cause of corruption
by girish on Apr 23, 2011 04:57 PM
Fine ! Excellent !! But now how to kickstart what you want to do ? This is where the whole malaise is. We have great thinkers but less doers.
Congress rules most of time in India and this money come from earlier from defense deal nor from corporate / business man and some time from bureaucrats . Money require by other party also and they got also some thing like tactics only.
So we require next time party funding system revolution also.
Re: Re: =
by chandrasingh singh on Apr 23, 2011 05:42 PM
You Pakis first clean your back and complain on others.If We all INDIANS urinate on your pak mean your country will submerge in seconds in to arabian see mind it
Re: Re: =
by chandrasingh singh on Apr 23, 2011 05:42 PM
You Pakis first clean your back and complain on others.If We all INDIANS urinate on your pak mean your country will submerge in seconds in to arabian see mind it
Re: =
by Subbu on Apr 23, 2011 06:30 PM
look who is talking? ha ha ha. Pakis is not at all a nation. Pieces of shhit together were formed for mzlms to stay, this pieces were formed together and called pakistan. Now it can be called prokistan. It cannot withstand within itself. A poverty nation, having different of opinion by each and every one of the leaders, and speak only untruth nothing else. A negative economy nation ranking 8th in the world as the most failed nation.
Its good to have such a nice comments from all but do we really feel that we are also a part of this cos as we all knows that all this was happening since way back but we always remain in coma to react all over this situation...y we were waiting before????Sorry but its a big question on our dignity we all want that Bhagat Singh borns again but now in our home...is this the way we can fight with this ???NOOOOO we will not...if we really wanna to fight back our Nation fromm this disastrous scenario than first we have to make sure that we are not corrupted in any means...Jai Hind
So far so good.The movement has recd. tremendous public support of all sections.It remains to be seen whether they can sustain the momentum over a large period especially in the light of govt.'s efforts to scuttle it at every step through smear campaign etc.It is very essential that all those led by Anna Hazare stay clear of politics and remain apolitical even while seeking support from politicians cutting across party lines.They should avoid making loose statements in media about political leaders and they themselves should be seen to be believe in probity in life.These are the certain ground rules the individual civil activists members should follow and any one not being able to adhere to these simple practices should dissociate from the movement.JLPB should be the sole objective to be achieved and the members must take it as AAR -PAAR KI LADAI with the govt. at all cost.No giving up.
