So, I came here accidentally and spent a significant amount of my time yesterday and today trying to respond to whatever comment I thought unfair. I don't think I'll be back in this forum next week unless another link brought me over here. I tried my best to not hurt anybody's feelings or be offensive. I hope at least I cleared up at least one person's one misconception. If not, that's just facts of like. I wish peace to all.
Mr.Raman, Just think about the plight of the unfortunate common tamil people in Srilanka, Discriminated in their own motherland treated as a third rated people. You need not help them but at least don't think of bombing them. You cannot brand anybody as terrorist simply because they use weapons. If you apply the same formula then you remember most of the freedom struggles in the world were won by weapons except india. Then you have to call Geogre washington (who fought for american freedom) a terrorist, even netaji and Bagat singh.Then why you honor them ? . Because they carried the carried the aspirations of the people and gave voice for the oppressed similarly today LTTE is the voice of the oppressed tamil people (whether you accept it or not it is a fact).Please stop writing about bombing on the unfortunate people sitting in A/C room. Help the srilankan tamil people to live in a country with equal rights and live with dignity and honor if possible, Otherwise Please keep quiet.
RE:If LTTE is a Terrosrist ,Nethaji ,Bhagadsingh also a terrorist
by sdev on Jul 01, 2006 05:01 AM
> ... You need not help them but at least don't think of bombing them.
Of course. They have had enough of this. But, just as you say 'don't bomb Tamils' to SL government, you should also say 'Don't bomb Sinhalese' to LTTE. The children LTTE throw up in the air and let fall on their sward tip or the mothers they behead have nothing to do with any of their complaints other than they just happened to be Sinhalese.
> You cannot brand anybody as terrorist simply because they use weapons.
It's not what they use that brand them as terrorists; it's how they use it and whom they target.
RE:If LTTE is a Terrosrist ,Nethaji ,Bhagadsingh also a terrorist
by sdev on Jul 01, 2006 04:51 AM
> ... discriminated in their own motherland treated as a third rated people.
I see this almost every day on media and places like this forums. I can imagine there is some level of discrimination. But to what extent? Do you know? In what respect? jobs? education? health care? Do we have any statistics? I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm myself interested in knowing. One thing I've heard about is during british rule most government positions were offered to Tamils as part of their practice of 'divid and rule' policy. After independence, this started to change. Sinhalese people started to go to high ranks as well. Some Tamils did not like it. The facts I know: Any Tamil can get into a Sinhala school in Sinhala areas, but no Sinhalese can even live in Tamil areas, not because of Tamils, but because of LTTE. If I count the number of Sinhalese, Tamil, Muslim, and European origin teachers I have had, they pretty much make up the population ratio which is as best as it gets. No hospital can deny care on the basis of race and I haven't seen that. Private sector, doesn't give a damn about who you are as long as you can do their work; they are merely profit driven. My brother works for a very successful rich Tamil entrepreneur and they get along really well. I wonder, can anybody in a hiring position say "I cannot hire this guy, because he's a Tamil"? It just doesn't sound realistic to me. But as I always say, there will be some bad guy who do that. What we work for is to minimize these. we'll never be able to make it perfect even between the same racial group. When the race is the same, the cast could be different, the religion could be different, the class could be different, the geographical area could be different. Bad guys can always find a way to discriminate others. We should work to minimize these. "Let's destroy Sinhalese on the surface of the planet" idea is not going to help even if you would be successful in doing that.
Sdev:- First rally your government about changing the constitution
by CommonSense on Jul 02, 2006 08:04 PM
It's really funny that you are talking why the name is infront of 'TamilNadu' or 'TamilEalam'. You take any state, they name it to represent their culture. This is a fundamental talk.
Before you talk about LTTE first the Sri Lankan constituition must be rewritten. It has racism and 'SINHALA only' written all over.
RE:If LTTE is a Terrosrist ,Nethaji ,Bhagadsingh also a terrorist
by Ram on Jul 02, 2006 12:22 PM
Mr S.Dev ,
>>The name of your state clearly says it's for Tamils: "Tamil Nadu";
Please stop your false propaganda. It clearly tells your lack of knowledge about India. Indian Constitution allows every Indian to live Anywhere in India without any hindrance .Do you know how many non-Tamil other language speaking people are living in Chennai and Other parts of TamilNadu? . Tamil people are known for their hospitality and even we accept people from other states as our leaders and icons. Tamilnadu is just a name. There is nothing more than that. But Think about the situation in srilanka. How many of Singhalese are ready to accept non- Singhalese as their leaders and icons? . Just you have the name of language in the state name doesnt mean you are racist and vice versa. You continue to be racist and do ethnic cleansing and since you dont have Singhala in your name can not hide that fact.
RE:If LTTE is a Terrosrist ,Nethaji ,Bhagadsingh also a terrorist
by Ram on Jul 02, 2006 12:00 PM
>>Let's destroy Sinhalese on the surface of the planet" idea is not going to help even if you would be successful in doing that.
I never said in any place like that. Please dont try to mislead. I wish every single person in the world irrespective of race or religion or country should live with dignity, honor and Peace. Even though you deny, the fact is that srilankan Tamils are continued to be discriminated in their motherland. In tamilnadu also there were Secessionist organizations, but most people dont support them because we enjoy equal rights and freedom in India. Sinhalese racism is the reason behind the rise of organizations like LTTE. Tamil people support Tamil Ealam, because they feel discriminated. If tamil people really feel What you say like they are not discriminated, they themselves will stop supporting Separate Tamil Ealam and separation from Srilanka. My message is to create a situation for Tamils in Srilanka to live them in equality and Peace or allow them to live separately.
Before stamping LTTE as a terrorist organisation...
I request all Indians including non-Tamils to Think a moment why they took arms in Hand
No one will do any reaction without an action.
In 1983 There was a Big Genocide happened in Srlanka, Lankans went to such an extent that that, They put in shops "Here Tamilian meat is available"
How many rapes, how many killings, made by lankans on Tamils..
We are not knowing the attrocities happening by Lankan army on Tamils, But we are knowing only one side of the coin and we are branding LTTE as terrorist..
For their kind information, majority of eelam Tamils are with LTTE, This I understood by visiting many forums.. So its their People wish, we cant stop. We must understand the Ground reality
See it is only Tamils who is coming as Refugees and Not any lankans, please understand the ground reality there
For all Brahmin Bashers, who are thinking that brahmins are against LTTE.. For their kind information, I am a Tamil brahmin, who understood the ground reality .. Please dont connect any issue with caste/creed
RE:Please Think the Root Cause
by sdev on Jul 01, 2006 04:25 AM
> Tell me one 'terrorist' group which holds peace talks negotiated by third parties.
The fact that one group is terrorists or not is not defined by the way they hold talks. It can actually be used to fool others and cover up the brutal tactics they use. LTTE killed 100's of people including bombing busload of civilians killing 64. Those terror tactics is what defines the nature of the group.
> He must stop publishing the one sided stories
We all should have the freedom to express ourselves. We should lead discussions with facts and opinions to understand each other and our differences. Sarcasm and debate just instill the desire in us to win it somehow hence pushing us even further.
RE:Please Think the Root Cause
by sdev on Jul 01, 2006 04:26 AM
> Has Raman ever lived under showering bombs and hidden Claymores?
Mr. Raman may not have, but I have. They were exploded by LTTE. But I did not end up being a racists just because LTTE do them and all LTTE are Tamils. Not all Tamils are LTTE! What happened in 1983 is an unspeakable crime. Thugs serving some racist government ministers did that with the help of some racist Sinhalese. Then government of JR Jayawardana screwed it up big time, using it for their political gains. By next day, Sinhalese and Bergers got organized to hide Tamils from these barbarians. I don't live in a mixed area, but I have friends who live in such and sheltered Tamils for protection. Those who committed the crime are just hundreds at most a few thousands out of millions of Sinhalese. And it happened almost a quarter century ago. The new generation think differently. When you are being prejudicial toward Sinhalese as a race, that's racism. It's neither worse nor better than when Sinhalese being racist.
RE:Please Think the Root Cause
by sdev on Jul 01, 2006 05:49 AM
> See it is only Tamils who is coming as Refugees and Not any lankans.
I agree that situation in South is not nearly as bad as in North. Mostly because, LTTE still do not have an air force. And the security is tight around Colombo and it's not easy for LTTE to penetrate. When they are successful in penetrating they blow off buildings, buses, trains, and individuals. Suppose LTTE attained air power tomorrow and started bombing Colombo. Sinhalese people would sill not come to Tamil Nadu like Tamils do. The name of your state clearly says it's for Tamils: "Tamil Nadu"; just like "Tamil Ealam". It's only for Tamils which is racism. I would fight if any SL government tried to call "Sri Lanka" by the name "Sinhala Sri Lanka" or anything like that. It's not just for Sinhalese. It's for all Sinhalese, Tamils, Muslims, Bergers, and anybody who wants to live with us in peace within the legal framework.
RE:Please Think the Root Cause
by sdev on Jul 01, 2006 05:49 AM
> For their kind information, majority of eelam Tamils are with LTTE, This I understood by visiting many forums.
Do you mean this kind of forums? If so: If Ealam tamils have internet access, Sinhalese are the ones who have been discriminated. These are all, armchair Tamil fighters who send their kids to schools in USA, Canada, and Europe and let the children of SL Tamils die to satisfy their pride. I don't think you have a reasonable cross section of Tamil population to draw your conclusion. If Tamil people are with LTTE, LTTE would not have to militarily destroy other tamil leaderships that existed and still exist such as TELO, PLOTE, EPDP, etc... If people are with LTTE, those organization would not have followers that they will go out of existence. LTTE want them to be the sole representative of Tamil people by destroying any one who could give leadership to Tamil people. Then their agents do the propaganda for them locally and internationally.
RE:Please Think the Root Cause
by sdev on Jul 01, 2006 05:48 AM
> In 1983 There was a Big Genocide happened in Srlanka..
gen·o·cide: The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.
What happened in 1983 is unspeakable, brutal, and shameful, but it's nowhere close to being a genocide. I wrote in previous messages about this and am not going to repeat myself.
> We are not knowing the attrocities happening by Lankan army on Tamils, But we are knowing only one side of the coin and we are branding LTTE as terrorist..
Unfortunately, your knowledge is also only about one side. You haven't heard from Sinhalese. You seem to think it's ok to destroy Sinhalese just because they were born Sinhalese.
RE:Please Think the Root Cause
by sdev on Jul 01, 2006 05:48 AM
> How many rapes, how many killings, made by lankans on Tamils..
This is misleading. Sinhalese do not rape Tamils. There are bad apples in armies who abuse power. Their victims are not limited to Tamils. Premavathi Manamperi is a Sinhalese who was raped and killed by army during 1971 Sinhala uprising. They did not rape her because she was Sinhalese, they did that because they thought they could satisfy their sexual desires from her and get away with it given the prevailing situation. I wrote about my feeling about 1983, so I'm not going to repeat it. As I said, some killings are reasonable depending on which side you are. e.g. LTTE thought killing Rajiv Gandhi was reasonable, that's why they killed him, but it's terrorism to an average person. Some killings are collateral damage. It's the brutality of war. Neither you nor I can stop that until we stop fighting. Some killings are senseless. By listening to Tamils, I realize army does that and I have first hand experience that LTTE does it too. The bad side is we at least have a hope that international community could pressure SL government to hold law breaking army personnel accountable for the war crimes they commit. But we have no hope with LTTE. They just don't listen to anybody.
Sri Lankan Tamils have been living there for over 3000 years. Infact Sri Lanka is part of the Tamil Kingdom during First Changa period.
Sr Lanka government is a failed government and failed to protect or give fundamental rights to it's own citizens of Tamil Orgin.
LTTE is the party that runs Tamil Eelam government.
Tamil Eelam is a successful government protecting it's citizens by having it's own armed forces, justice system, police force including traffic control.
LTTE was formed only after all the peace efforts were failed. So they are freedom fighters NOT terrorists. Same Like Indian National Army (INA)
So India must provide LTTE security and financial support to Tamil Eelam.
Tell me one 'terrorist' group which holds peace talks negotiated by third parties. Has Raman ever lived under showering bombs and hidden Claymores?
He must stop publishing the one sided stories and instead think about investing in stock markets, increasing wealth and teaching English and Hindi to his grandchildren - Eelam knows how to defend itself.
RE:Raman and his dogma!!!
by sdev on Jul 01, 2006 03:39 AM
Cont....
LTTE kill not only Sinhalese, but Tamils and Muslims also. Good first class Tamil citizens like Prof. Rajini Thiranagama or Neela Thirichelvam did nothing to deserve to die. Ranjini Thiranagama is not a racist; that's why she married a Sinhalese. She only fought for human rights. The skilled and talented minister Laxman Kadiragamar told the world his side of the story about LTTE. LTTE responded by killing; not challenging what he said about LTTE. LTTE doesn't kill just those who rape and mutilate; they kill anybody who gets in their way. That is terrorism. By doing so you deter Tamil people's fight for their rights. If you play nicely and reasonably, you'll get the support of not only Tamil Nadu, but also from people all around the world including most Sinhalese. There going to be racists every where every day. You cannot get rid of racists or racism by killing the race they belong to.
RE:Raman and his dogma!!!
by sdev on Jul 01, 2006 03:38 AM
> When our dear ones are raped and mutilated infront of our eyes just because we are so called minority tamil population then its our duty to carry out the missions to destroy our enemies
Tamizhan, Your bomb could explode one day in front of me killing me on the spot. What did I do to you? Did I rape or mutilate any of your fellow Tamils? Only thing I've done to Tamils is teaching some of the displaced Tamil students in early 90's without regard to their race. So did my Tamil teachers. Do you think the army treat you and Sinhalese differently? They come crushing down on anybody who go against the government and some of them also abuse the power they get behind that. Army crushed two uprisings in South by Sinhalese one in 1971 and another in 1989. They indiscriminately killed Sinhalese people too. I lived in fear and lost some of my friends. I was not a Tamil. Army could do it because we were the majority and nobody was there to talk or work for us like you have in Tamil Nadu. And not all army personnel abuse power either. There are those who do the duty. They cannot avoid the inherent brutality of war. Then, there are bad ones too. Only the bad deeds are told all over the world and used by LTTE for its propaganda. When tsunami hit, didn't army personnel rescue Tamils? Didn't they die while trying to save Tamil children? Didn't LTTE try to avoid that to make army look bad? We should make the correction at the right place. If there are law breakers, we should bring them to justice. Just by destroying the race that the bad guy belongs to is not going to do you any good. Tomorrow you'll find bad buys among yourself. Then are you going to destroy your own race because that bad guy belongs to your own race? Cont.....
When our dear ones are raped and mutilated infront of our eyes just because we are so called minority tamil population then its our duty to carry out the missions to destroy our enemies sinhalese are the bad guys but some of the fools in india especially north india supports the sinhalese rather than the ethnic tamils thank god we have got people in the form of karunanidhi and ramadoss in power now who are always been ardent ltte supporters in our home state tamilnadu i personally klignar for helping ltte carry out the target at sriperumbadhur it would be better to split our state tamilnadu from the india,then we could help srilankan tamil people more easily ltte rocks india and srilanka sucks Tamil Till the last drop of blood Tamil to the bone
Finally, I don't believe division is an answer. Both sides will only be weaker. (If both Tamil Elam and Sri Lanka played 1996 Cricket World Cut we wouldn't have had Muralitharan and they wouldn't have had Aravinda and Australia would have won the trophy). We should learn to unite and live in peace and harmony. People are never going to be the same; there will always be different people. You will have to keep dividing yourself. What's after Tamil Eelam? What when East/South Eelam tamils complain North Ealam tamils discriminate them (they already do)? Then who is your 'fellow tamil'? Is Tamil Nadu/India going to train and arm another group?
> Why tamil militants are fighting ? how and why these organizations created.
I can guess what answer you expect. Sinhala racism is not the whole story. Tamil racism, political interests of Sri Lankan politicians, political corruption in SL (getting the service of thugs and then not being able to punish them when they commit other crimes etc.) and Tamil Nadu and Inidia's political interests also play significant roles. Over the time it has evolved to be fueled by LTTE's power greed (Could Prabhakaran have sent his children to schools in UK if it were not for this war. I know the same applies to some high ranking SL officers). It's a more complex than simple Sinhala racism. Average Sinhalese are not racists. If they were, either JVP or JHU would have won election. There have been many elections where JVP and JHU were reduced to little or no seats in the parliment. Sinhala people wanted Ranil Wikramasinghe (more moderate person), but LTTE helped Mahinda Rajapaksa come to power by not letting Tamils vote. Most of the LTTE fighters have never seen or talked to a Sinhalese. Sinhalese cannot live in North though Tamils can live in South. I have Tamil friends, I have had a Tamil girlfriend, I have worked with Tamil co-workers and two of my highly respected teachers are Tamils. Before I say a word against a Tamil I would think about them. But Tamils in Jaffna cannot think of any good Sinhalese. All they know about Sinhalese is what they see in the army and what they are told by LTTE. In my personal experience, I used to volunteer my time to an NGO. We could not help any Jaffna Tamil in anyway even remotely. LTTE would not let it happen. LTTE want to be able to demonize Sinhalese in every way possible to Jaffna people and Tamil Nadu people so it would help them achieve their goals.
> i dont think Rebels have done any AIRSTRIKES on mainland
They would have if they could and will when they can. If the government forces are deliberately bombing civilian targets like LTTE does, then it's fair to say government is equally atrocious. If not, civilian casualties are the utter ugliness of war. That's why should avoid that, talk and come to a political settlement. The demands should be reasonable. e.g. it's not reasonable for 17% of the population to demand control over 1/3 of the country and almost 1/2 the coastal area. LTTE cannot be the sole representative of Tamil people, because they got that crown by killing other representatives.
You really cannot not look at an atrocious act committed by government thugs and identify an entire race with them. LTTE use 1983 black July for its propaganda. 99% of Sinhalese population despise that. As far as I know it was committed by thugs serving some racist then government ministers and small fraction of racist Sinhalese. And the government eventually used that to ban marxist JVP and never went after the real perpetrators.
> they dont have peaceful life and no guarantee of their life from their own govt militants.
Neither do we. LTTE do not bomb from the sky, only because they don't have air plans. When they do, they will start doing that too. They bomb us in every other way. And we don't have an India to flee to or another Sinhalese state to speak up for us. My brother was in a train that LTTE blew off. Fortunately, he survived. I'm not trying to justify either act. It's the brutality of this war that we should stop.
> They didnt even leave 2 year old baby to live.
If the army deliberately killed this innocent child, there's no difference between LTTE and them. If it happened while attacking LTTE terrorists, we should take it to the heart to work to stop this madness and come to a political settlement. Supporting war from either side is only going to kill more.
