Its a good article. I appreciate the author for coming up with a nice article. I was something for the author. I donot understand why the author wants to draw parallels of Mr. Gandhi, Mr. Ambedkar with the great Adisankaracharya, Swami Vivekanada, Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa etc. They are enlightened souls and did everything for the benefit of the mankind irrespective of their community or creed. I donot understand how Mr.Gandhi (strictly a politician, or Mr.Ambedkar the saviour of the masses) be compared to the Holy. Those are merely politicians. If Mr.Gandhi, just because he could draw millions into the freedom struggle qualifies for a place with the Holiest. Then surely Adolf Hitler qualifies for a berth. Finally, all I want to say is please donot mix the politicians with the Holiest. P.S: This is not to hurt the Gandhians or to insult people of any caste. I'm not a pro-caste supporter. Its just to see the blending of politics with religion be stopped.
RE:Good article
by Rajiv Bhawar on Sep 08, 2004 06:07 AM
Dear Friend,
There is inherent inequality in our society due to caste system. Today we find pour country in bad shape is just because of the hatred spread due to caste system.
Our constitution is based on equality and brotherhood, but it cannot work in a society which has inherent social inequality. The cause of failure is not our constitution but the deep rooted caste system.
Do not try to guage work done by Dr. Ambedkar in percentages. His aim was to achieve humanity which was destroyed by caste system.
The fact is that the caste system cannot be destroyed because it is authenticated by the holy vedas.
Can you provide as single instance of tooth attitude by Dr. Ambedkar?
RE:Good article
by Rajiv on Sep 28, 2004 12:40 AM
1. Give me the instances where Guru narayana spoke against caste system? What was the reason he spoke against caste system?
2. Did he brought all lower castes in Kerala to the level of brahmins? Are lower castes in Kerala getting the respect of a brahmin? Are they eligible to be a priest in any temple?
3. Please read "Purush-Sukta" part of Rig veda which narrates the origin of caste and considers it as a ideal system.
Did krishna criticized caste system in Geeta or he was in support of it? Tell me where in Geeta he has supported or criticized the evil caste system.
For your kind information, Kabir was a Hindu? He very strongly criticized Hinduism. Not a single hindu saint in India has helped to destroy caste system. They born and died in caste system.
There are exceptional people/saint like Mahatma Phule and Kabir who did not consider themselves as a hindu because of the evil caste system and practises.
RE:Good article
by rajivbhawar on Sep 08, 2004 06:28 AM
Dear friend,
Please see what is happening in Rajesthan. Are Brahmins not asking for reservations?
We have caste based reservation system because nobody is ready to giveup his caste. For a hindu, nothing is dearer than his caste. For example: Can brahmins openly say that they are ready to throw away their brahmin caste to initiate the process of destroying the caste system?
Caste system will cease to exist when there is no brahmin, kshatriya, vaishya and shudra.
Caste system is upheld by the holy vedas (refer to purush-sukta part of reg veda). Therefore to destroy the caste system you have to first challange the authority of vedas.
Reservations based on caste system is a by-product of caste system. It was provided to balance the unbalanced social structure in place due to caste system. When every hindu gives away his caste, then this caste based reservation system will not be required.
RE:Good article
by Rajiv on Sep 28, 2004 12:42 AM
contd... Infact Ambedkar was successful in freeing himself and majority of lower castes from the evil caste system. He also made provision for the security and progress of lower castes in the constitution. He tried his best a person can do in his lifetime to destroy the 2500 years old evil caste system.
Tell me how hinduism can be reformed? Can the holy vedas be corrected which praised caste system? The source of all evil lies there? The veda need to be reformed? Reforming people will not help because they follow the holy vedas.
What made you say that I have been ruined by the missionary propaganda? Does any of my statement infers that?
Ambedkar only liked Buddhism which is based on science and therefore is applicable in all times. Christians atleast have regretted for slavery and tried their best to bring them to their level, but in hinduism no body dares to regret on the evil caste system. On the other hand they try to reform the lower castes when infact the minds of upper caste needs to be reformed.
Think about it my friend before you pick your pen.
RE:Good article
by rajesh gopi on Sep 03, 2004 02:42 PM
think of it this way, rajiv b. you think ambedkar is god's gift to humanity. why shouldn't rajeev s. think sree narayana guru is god's gift to humanity? equal opportunity worship.
to use your big put-down of the guru "who's heard of him outside india?", ask yourself the same question about ambedkar, too.
both were good men. if you prefer one, you should allow RS to prefer the other. otherwise, you're being a dogmatic fundamentalist.
RE:Good Article
by Rajiv on Aug 31, 2004 11:05 PM
The miserable condition of our soiety today is due to inequality and injustice promoted by caste system. Caste system is authorized by Reg Veda. It says its the perfect society structure given by God.
Adisankaracharya, Swami Vivekanada, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa were all supporters of caste system. By supporting caste system which promotes social inequality based on birth and not by merit, how can one benefit human kind.
RE:Please write about all the great saints of South India.
by praveen on Sep 01, 2004 06:35 AM
hi mysore madhawa, rajeev is biased towards kerala because he is from there. by this i mean that he has a good understading of issues of kerala than may be karnataka. (i am guessing here, i might be completely wrong). this does not mean he is being myopic. he is at a much better position to write about sree narayana guru than may be purandara dasa. please dont see anything much else in this. maybe rediff can have someone with very good understanding of karnataka to write about issues from there.
dear rajeev nice to see u praise narayana guru and to my surprise gandhi and i cant contain my astonishment in seeing ambekar in the lists of hinduisms greats.what can i say than kindly asking u to read his books riddles on hinduism and his famous words[whatever the hindus may say.hindu raj if it becomes areality is a menace to equality,liberty and will spell doom for all sudras]nice of u to have included him in the greats of hinduism.thank god for votebank politics.u have mentioned about vaikom and sarcastically commented about periyar who is known as vaikom veerar.periyar, ambekar. narayana guru all strived for upliftment of the oppressed communities in their own ways and just because one tried it within hinduism u praise him and denigrate the other.what did adishankara do to eradicate caste system?can u show me asingle priest are adevout hindu who is for eradication of caste.hinduism survives on caste and the day there r no castes it will join moneyism,zorashterinismand all other ?great religions.i likeshourie as he has the guts to take on ambekar while u feel so angered against him internally but for the sake of votes start using him for things which he opposed all his life
RE:time has forced u to praise
by vijay on Sep 11, 2004 09:53 PM
Dear poo, Arun shourie took on ambedkar and in the bargain got a seat in rajya sabha to carry forward the hidden agenda of the sangh and its gang. He tried to spit on the sun and one knows what happens when you try to do that, it falls back on the face that spits. Arun shourie is a confused individual and this is more obvious from his writings. His book `worshipping false gods` is the view point of the cunning sanghis(varnashramees) who hang the photo of mahatma and ambedkar in there shakas but in pvt bear venomous antipathy towards both.
RE:time has forced u to praise
by Douglas Adams on Sep 02, 2004 04:25 PM
Dearest Poo
Why is that you are unable to write a single post without berating hindus for everything in the world ( I am not one by the way).That and why can't you write anything without committing some form of solecism at present you just resemble a hybrid between arundhati roy and thompson/thomson brothers.
Gurus and gorus ..that makes most part of india..its time that hypnotism of religion should go away from the socciety..Religion has no role to play in todays capitalist world..It only helps the hands of Jehadis and saffronites..
If at all, states like TN and others, had one person like Guru, all of India would have become free of all the idiotic practices within the Hindus. Alas, it was not to be. The so-called reformers like Periyar etc. in TN had created lot of animosities between the castes and now it has almost become an irreversible ones (unless there is a wholesome change in the current politicians who hang on to the so-called Dravidian movement). One heartening fact is that the `gap' is narrowing amongst the Hindu sects' and this shows that `Hinduism' is flexible and progressive unlike other religions like Islam (which looks like it can never reform with their `Jihadi' attitude including the killing of non-muslims). `Reform' in some form, irrespective of the religion, is certainly neccessary to keep progressing. For the Islamists, `reform' is a non-existent phenomenon.
Reg Periyar...
by R on Sep 02, 2004 11:20 AM
Mr.Poo asks us as to cite any instance where Periyar misbehaved with Brahmins...Isnt he aware of the fact that Periyar and the DK movement cut the Holy Threads of many Brahmins, destroyed Vinayaka idols and garlanded Rama's statue with Slippers (thereby not only affecting Brahmin sentiments, but the Hindu sentiments as a whole..)
RE:Great work by the guru..
by bp on Aug 31, 2004 05:54 PM
Dear poo,
I agree with what you said about Periyar that he was against Braminism as it was existing at his time. The problem is that anyone who sees the activities of SNDP and the DK today they would think that DK is acting just with the same kind of dogma - which was apparently opposed by Periyar - that Bramins had in Periyar days. I think that is the reason Pariyar is being looked at as hate monger.
Periyar was against worship of a human including himself & idol worship and asked that his statues should not be put up. But today tell me one city in TN where there is no Periyar Statue.
The irony of both Hinduism and Periyar are same. They both were for peace & love of humanity in general, but followers of both just kept aside the deep spirituality (Atheism, propounded by Periyar, is a form of spirituality - an opinion on God) of what they preached and are using their names to wrong ends.
For example I know of many bramin families in Trichy which were burnt in the name of DK movement.
Ofcourse the positive action by Guru is unparalled - even by Mahatma - The closest concept is when Patel liquidated the princely states without liquidating the princes.
RE:Great work by the guru..
by poo on Aug 30, 2004 06:56 PM
dear ramanathan what is the reason for ur anger against periyar?is it because he encouraged intercaste marriages,widow remarriages.he was arrested in 1931 for leading agroup of untouchables to madurai temple 8 yrs before vaidyanada iyer made a show of temple entry.if at all some community had benefited the maximum because of periyar it is the brahmin community.he was staunchly against superstitions which prevented brahmins crossing sea as becoming polluted, shaving of the heads of widows, importance of english and education which was followed more by brahmins who saw the stupidity in clinging to stupid practises and benefitted greatly. if not for periyar u would not have seen ur mother or sister during most of ur life as ur great sanadana dharma consider them impure during menstruation,widow hood,post delivery period etc.u will realise the important role played by periyar when u see him with an unbiased mind.he was astaunch supporter of love marriages unlike all other leaders of his time.can u say of any instance where he had misbehaved with any brahmin. he was just against what brahminism stood for and even u will do the same with what brahminismstands for
Whiny the poo
by Nayagan on Sep 01, 2004 02:47 AM
Hey poo,
Periyar said:"When you see a brahmin and a snake, leave the snake kill the brahmin."
And remember Periyar did not want independence from the British 'cos he so feared the brahminic dominance in independent India. Me thinks he was a brit. tool, what you say?
That's what I call Saintly sanity. It is just commom sense that it is only when you ask someone to certify you - you display you alligence to him and accept him to be higher to you. If you do not depend on anyone-else for certification or otherwise then you are the superpower.
I hope this attitude propounded by Sree Narayana Guru is expanded to social and national feeling and Indians stop looking for certification & goods from foreign countries. This would make us self respecting & self reliant.
No wonder the politicians with vested interest are not allowing such Positive attitudes to spread.
I call upon the so-called lower caste people, who are asking for reservation in any place and every place, to start a company with 100% reservation to lower communities and try to improve such communities in the spirit.
A successful corporation with only lower caste people will generate better social equality than 99% reservation - Even in this case the 1% upper caste will be the real bosses.
RE:Saintly sanity
by vijay on Sep 11, 2004 10:02 PM
Dear sgpal, look, every body wants to get rid of reservation but is it possible without eliminating casteism (a reservation system perpetuated for 5000 years by the beneficiaries viz brahmins, banias and thakurs). The scramble for the toilet paper (caste certificate) will end if the brahmins stop wearing the longest intestine (`sacred`thread)around their body.
RE:Saintly sanity
by sgpal on Aug 31, 2004 03:04 PM
With all due respects to Narayana guru, what amazes me and some times infuriates me is this.How does one get rid of caste system in India? People are giving an arm and a leg to get the communities included in the back ward /obc lists! More over who is asking for a piece of toilet paper called caste certificate to further their career? May be we need to teach arayana guru's teaching to all those who clamour for the toilet tissue cerificate
The article was quite well written and appreciated a lot. But however it brought to light, the self-serving Vellapally Natesans interest and justification for inviting Mrs. Sonia Gandhi. I am sure that our beloved President of India who has spent a substantial part of his professional life in Kerala would have made a better choice for presiding over the 150th year celebration of Sree Narayna Guru. Equally our beloved Prime Minister is worthy of universal respect being the head of the world's largest democracy. It is the motives of individuals like Mr. Natesan's whose choice and explanation that make proud Indian born Indian's look like pariah looking elsewhere for a messiah.
RE:The Year of Sree Narayana Guru
by rajesh gopi on Sep 07, 2004 02:54 PM
you have a point, anil panicker, that the sndp and natesan should not have invited sonia gandhi but someone more worthy of respect. but then, why fault the sndp alone? there are plenty of others who are sucking up to sonia; after all, she was elected to power. why should the sndp be the only exception? maybe natesan wants to break the nair/christian deadlock on the congress in kerala and is offering an ezhava vote-bank in exchange for some goodies. why not?
RE:The Year of Sree Narayana Guru
by poo on Aug 30, 2004 07:04 PM
sonia gandhi stands for whatever narayana guru stood for.all human beings are one[she married a person out of love irrespective of his religion,race.she has stayed to work for the poor of this country travelling all around when she can enjoy the comforts of life.she has renounced power which i dhoubt any devouthindu/muslim/christian can ever do].its doubly sweet that narayana gurus teachings and his message are now known to the entire world and his celebrations are started by a good individual instead of some joshi/advani who will send goons to kill if a ezhava boy/girl had fallen in love with his children
RE:The Year of Sree Narayana Guru
by bp on Sep 04, 2004 11:32 AM
Hey Poo,
I am sure you are a DK female from TN whose name literally means Flower.
Okay why do you want equate intercaste marriage with social equality. I can allow intercaste marriage and still say that the caste of the lower caste person shall be the caste of the family. Intercaste marriage doesnot per se counter casteism. On the contrary it generates more animosity.
What is required is mutual respect that will give the opportunity for all to live their religious beliefs within their homes and social lives outside. It is this concept that makes the Guru go far ahead of Periyar. BTW this Guru of Hinduism is not a Bramin.
