Sri Narayana Guru 's goal is to reform Hinduism by purifying it and by improving it. he suggested to the lower castes that they appropriate Hinduism and Hinduism belongs to every one. Today, Kerala's different castes coexist more or less peacefully, due to the services and movement of Sri Narayana Guru.
As usual an amazing article by Rajeev. But the fact that he compared Ambedkar with the great saints is completely unacceptable. I also think that Rajeev should not compare Ghandhi with Guru. Guru did something concrete. Ghandhi, in my opinion, didnt.
RE:Amazing article... but
by Anil Pillai on Sep 12, 2004 03:10 PM
Shri Anand,
Without Gandhi, there would have been no India as we see now, but a mix of different countries as in Africa. He unified us!
Without Gandhi, the country would have been covered with caste, creed and regional wars, remember the fasts that he undertook against casteism and communal violence (which is why some lumpen elements hate him).
Without Gandhi, there would have been no real freedom struggle apart from a few assasinations in one place and a few dharanas in another. Many of the current "custiodians of culture and Dharma" where hibernating during the freedom struggle, if you read history. The Brits would have left when they had sucked us dry and when we were more of a liability than an asset.
I agree that Sree Narayana Guru stands way above people like Ambedkar. He showed us what can be achieved without confrontation. The great reformer made the Ezhavas a progressive community, and once backward and oprressed community is able to peacefully co-exist with others inspite of the past atrocities. That is unlike much of the rest of India. Great work indeed.
If Narayana Guru was really successful then Kerala would not be so delicately balanced between hindus(10%), communists(30%), muslims(30%) and christians(30%). Vivekananda was so right in more than one way. The cunning Namboodiris (considered themselves superior to brahmins) commited so much atrocities pre-reform that when the tide turned they all ditched the hindu community in toto, became hardcore communists overnight and started attacking the very same dharma they used so selfishly. The poor hindus of kerala were left with no option but to convert, migrate out of the state or become communists themselves. Very few are still fighting for establishing hindu dharma and fortunately Rajeev happens to be one of them. You have to fight the 'good fight' Rajeev to establish what is right and that is what Mahabharata was all about.
Unfortunately Casteism became a political weapon invented by the british and used by our opportunistic politician. Before the british tell of one recorded incident in the whole of India where casteism lead to genocide? Anyone?
RE:I would take it with a pinch of salt
by Anil Pillai on Sep 12, 2004 03:03 PM
>Before the british tell of one recorded incident in >the whole of India where casteism lead to genocide? >Anyone?
Read history Nayagan, and then you will see.
Obviously you do not know much about Kerala. I am a Hindu and as far as I know we are 56%.
No political party wants to abolish caste system, all wants to use it. Probably the only way to stop caste and creed feelings is to remove it from SSLC books. These things are personal and there is no need to bring them out.
The same with reservations. There is no need for them in Kerala. I have seen many cases where the children of rich parents got it just because of their birth. I feel that Reservations should be given to the children of the soldiers or policemen who died for the country. All poor people from all communities irrespecitve of caste, creed or region should be given educational aid (for living expenses) and a free fees. I think that it is very fair, and it will motivate all into working hard. The promise of "the light at the end of the tunnel", a govt job no matter how much you play around during your student days, does not improve the mental calibre of the students, but lulls them into complaceny.
RE:I would take it with a pinch of salt
by rajivbhawar on Sep 08, 2004 07:04 AM
You consider Guru Narayana above . DrAmbedkar because he brought reforms without confrontation.
Can you tell me with whom Ambedkar confronted and for what?
Confrontation occurs depending on what you try to achieve?
The aim of Dr. Ambedkars's movement was to achieve humanity for all the depressed classes which was not there in caste system. Caste system was initiated and nurtured by Brahmins.
When he spoke about the evils of caste system, the brahmins confronted with him. They confronted with him when he went to drink water from a river. They confronted with him when he tried to enter a Hindu temple.
Inspite of that he successeded in making provision for better education, equal oppurtunity and the most important - a life with self respect for all. He did not work for a single caste/class. His effort helped to progress all the depressed classes including the ones who opposed him.
Please ensure to correct your facts before making any statement about Dr. Ambedkar.
Dear Rajeev,Nice to see a positive article from you.You deserve appreciation for acknowledging the cruelty and humiliation faced by the "lower castes" for centuries at the hands of their own co-religionists.Otherwise most of the NRIs I see ignore the cruelty and violence committed by the "upper castes" completely and harp continuously on the violence of Muslim invaders.An objective study of history shows man's inhumanity to man and obsession for power in every religion,caste,nation etc.We need more spiritual leaders like Narayana Guru to cleanse our society and make it more humane,just and tolerant.
Nice article
by Sivadas on Sep 02, 2004 02:18 AM
What an ignorance! Where did you get all these information, Mr. Nayagan? As far as I know only one Namboothiri who was Communist(that is Mr. EMS)! Remaining all will be 100% ready to bring Hindu Dharma under a 'Nayagan' like you. And by saying Hindus(10%), did yo mean RSS/BJP? Then that might not be true, that percentage value can be even lower.
What an ignorance
by MP Raju on Sep 02, 2004 07:04 PM
Hello Sivadas, Sorry to say that you are much more ignorant. VT Bhattathirippad was a communist, who married a widow. And there are scores of Nambudiris whom I personally know who are communists.
For a change, the feel good factor crept in, after I read RS write-up on this Great Man. Sree Narayana Guru's face epitomises 'peace', who with his great philosophy, was able to propell and bring out the down-trodden into mainstream humanity. Wishing the 150th annivesarry all the success it deserve.
RE:SREE NARAYANA GURU
by bp on Aug 31, 2004 06:26 PM
Thanks Hanif,
Thanks for the positive words. This is what will give us all happiness. I would prefer that all of us take the SPIRIT taught by the Guru - PEACEFUL CO - EXISTANCE.
The Guru had two paths to take. One is he could have easily become a militant against the Bramins and fought with them, which is the norm AND he could IGNORE the bramins and set his own standards and start living respectfully in the same society, without interfering with the operations of the other community. This is what he did and the result is for you to see.
No hindu wants to fight with muslims if they would keep their religious beliefs confined to their homes and mix with the mainstream without repeatedly identifying themselves as muslims.
The moment you want to form a group and want to fight for your rights, it makes the people around you suspicious & hence angry.
Today I do not know how many people would recognise bramin/hindu/christian - except priests - in their school, office or bus. But Muslims can be spotted everywhere. That is what we mean by saying that NOT JOINING THE MAINSTREAM.
Iraqis ave kidnapped french jurnos askin the Frence gov to change their law - This is height
Oh Rajeev you are so disappointing... you should have written about something that the kafirs (non-hindus in this case) have to scream against.
Is there no white skinned "Historian" who said that the guru was a phoney..?. Amazing.
Maybe we should request one of those people to come over and do some research and pass some theories saying that the Guru was not even Hindu... his fore fathers actually were descendants of Jesus christ or M'd Nabi. Then this guru will suddenly become an international celebrity.
"For he was one of the greatest sons of India, in the lineage of the Buddha and Adi Sankara."
What makes author bring Shree Narayana Guru in lineage with the Enlightened Buddha?
What great thing Guru has told which Buddha failed to tell? Does anybody knows him outside India?
Buddha strongly stood against caste system and considered it as the root cause of sorrow. Did Guru speak in favour of destroying caste system in hindu religion?
Bull Shit is more famous than all
by bp on Sep 04, 2004 11:08 AM
Dear Rajiv,
I would first like to know if you are from Kerala or anywhere near it? Have you visited Kerala?
If yes you are just one more stupid guy who does not see the obvious. If not , please first visit Kerala and try to understand what is happening there.
I am sure "Bull shit" is more famous than the chemical used in Chemotherapy. Just because the Guru is not very famous. It dosent undermine his efforts to change the ststus quo.
ACTUALLY HE IS A BETTER KARMA YOGI THAN THE GHANDI AND AMBEDKAR BY WAY OF NOT SEEKING FAME IN RETURN TO HIS REVOLUTION.
BTW Ambedkar at best created more rifts inthe Indian societies than bridge them.
I have few things to share on 2 sentences used in this article.
First statement: "The greatest and most successful champion of the rights of oppressed Hindus in the twentieth century, more successful than the much better known Mahatma Gandhi and Babasaheb Ambedkar."
Here the author stressess that the work done by Sree Narayana Guru is more successful then that of Ambedkar. This statement needs proof and facts.
He made provision for education, job and equality for all depressed classes. Above all and the most important thing was that he brought back self respect in their lives.
Today we find lower castes progressing in all spheres of life. The entire credit goes to him. You find respect for him not only in India, but in the entire World.
RE:Ambedkar is the Guru for all depressed classes
by rajesh gopi on Sep 10, 2004 07:38 PM
rajiv b, did you actually read this article? the questions you ask are answered clearly.
1. yes, sree narayana guru spoke strongly against caste
2. yes, the guru was successful in elevating all the lower castes of kerala
3. no, the guru didnt attack the rig veda, because there is no need to. the rig veda does not justify casteism. nor does the bhagavad gita
you sound like the tamil dk fundamentalists who think evr is god. understand that ambedkar is not the only savior of the lower castes. there have been many, eg. basavanna in karnataka, jyotiba phule in maharashtra, the bhakti saints in tamil nadu, who helped. many of the most revered hindu saints have been low-caste: eg. kabir, tiruvalluvar, etc.
you have been ruined by the missionary propaganda that hinduism is totally anti-lower-caste. ambedkar himself did not like christianity, and that is why he did not convert to christianity. he could see the apartheid and slavery in christianity. similarly islam also has strict categories: eg. one man's word is worth that of two women.
only hinduism can be reformed, which is what the guru did.
RE:Ambedkar is the Guru for all depressed classes
by bp on Sep 04, 2004 01:56 PM
Hey Rajiv,
This is the reply to your post in response to Rajesh. AMBEDKAR IS NOT KNOWN TO ANYONE OUTSIDE INDIA. Period. He is just like WORLD famous in INDIA.
Do not talk like a stupid American, for whom the whole world is USA and the rest of the world is Non-existant.
And for the acheivement of being the Author of the Indian Constitution - the less said the better. Seeing today's political & constitutional situation I wouldn't call it an acheivement(With all due respect to the good intentions of Shri. Ambedkar)He has been taken for a grand ride.
Once again please try to understand Kerala at the time of the Guru and guage his work in getting the equality message across.
The difference here is that the Guru inspired people to think in that particular direction by excluding the oppressors from the struggle in contrast to the tooth for a tooth attitude of BR AMB which sought to oppress the oppressors and thus creating a new breed of oppressors.
If Ambedkar was 50% successful, we would not be seeing the caste politics that we witness today.
RE:Ambedkar is the Guru for all depressed classes
by sgpal on Sep 06, 2004 07:03 AM
Hi Please tell me how to get rid of the caste system with out affceting the caste based reservation system?Whos clamouring for the caste certificate ? Upper castes? The arguement from semiliterate fellows about removing caste will not hold water.Caste goes so does the caste based reservation and more importantly vote bank!
RE:Ambedkar is the Guru for all depressed classes
by Rajiv Bhawar on Sep 08, 2004 05:54 AM
Hi,
Please note that all my comments were related to the statememts made author who has put statements with refernce to Dr. Ambedkar without providing any proofs.
You too are not different from him, infact one step ahead for using aburd words like stupid.
See your statement: -- ACTUALLY HE IS A BETTER KARMA YOGI THAN THE GHANDI AND AMBEDKAR BY WAY OF NOT SEEKING FAME IN RETURN TO HIS REVOLUTION. Do not you think any proof is need for the above statement?
Caste system was not created by Dr. Ambedkar. It was initiated and nurtured by brahmins to maintain their supremecy.
How can Dr. Ambedkar create rifts in already rifted Indian society due to the Hindu caste system? Did Guru Narayana spoke against caste system? Did he oppose Rig Veda for approving the caste system which spread inequality and hatred in the society?
Infact Dr. Ambedkar tried to unite the society by keeping equality, justice and brotherhood as the pillers of our Constitution.
