On one hand Mr.Lavakare tries to defend the idea that Hinduism is an accepting religion that believes that all paths lean to an eternal truth and then goes ahead to spew venom against other religions. I am proud to be a Hindu and if someone wants to convert to Christanity I respect their decision. This is what democracy is all about. Being a Hindu is about accepting other religions and ways of life, and not about forcing other people to accept our ways.
India has been a great, liberal, accepting community throughout our history because we welcomed changes and differing views. Now these psuedo conervative RSS and it's likes and trying to force a kind of stifling social norms that are not Indian in any way. Mr.Lavarkare, you do not need to tell us how we Hindus should behave and protect our religion. We have done so quite sucessfully for centuries by being tolerant and loving and that is what we would like to continue to be.
RE:Tolerance
by sanjay choudhry on Jun 11, 2003 11:03 PM
Dear Ruchi, so much innocence is not good. It is like we dont mean anybody harm, so why in the world would anyone want to harm us. According to an estimate, 25 crore Hindus have been massacred in the last 1,000 years by Christian and Muslim invaders. Hindus havent been wiped out only because they breed like rabbits. But we have lost a lot of land. And it is the converts who bear the most hatred toward their earlier religion, as if in defense of their conversion. Its good to be tolerant but is equally foolish not to keep the gunpowder dry. Stray conversions based on individual belief are no problem and are even welcomed, but we are talking about mass conversions conducted like an organized prosyletizing industry, funded by foreign money, preying on ignorance of the illiterates. These conversions introduce islands of alien culture and cause social tensions, as in the entire north-east. The converts soon close ranks and hound out the Hindus. I hope you understand the difference between these two types of conversions. After the making of Pakistan, at least now we should how this whole thing works.
first of all I would like to say that it was a great article! Someone suggested that Mr. Lavakare should publish the article in the other international publications etc. so that this issue is known to a lot more people. That might be a way but I think Mr. Lavakare has done large part of his work by writing this article itself. Spreading these ideas can be done by the people reading it as well. I am going to start it by posting a link to this article to my friends who I know will never read such stuff otherwise.
Haven't we learnt enough from the bygone pages histroy? Religion has been twisted and turned,used like a foot mat for our own benefits! Remember Crusade and Toquemada? Readers are requested to probe the reason as to why there has been unexplained blood shed in all those nations, where major world religions have taken their birth?Is it the intolerance to other fellow religions? Or the feeling of megalomaniac tendency? Either way it is a lost cause.
I am really surprised to see authors like Aravind,trying to put forward theories, which any ways,bound to deflect on him! A nation fed on religious extremities can never hope to survive! Is the religion root cause of all problems?
Thanks for bringing forth the realities along with the handful of evidences.... I suggest that Mr Pope should take care of his health more than commenting on the policies of other.... this may, in turn, be not good for his health!! Although a human should be free to follow the religion of his choice, but the most shameful offence against a person is the forceful conversion by whatever means possible.... To stop this forceful conversion, some of the states have enacted some laws which is really a welcome step.... I am not sure though when will other state govts open their eyes to this .... or they never will??
Below is an excerpt from 'Catholic Ashrams' by Sita Ram Goel:
The mission strategists are now making Christianity drop its alien attire and get clothed in Hindu cultural forms. Christianity is being presented as an indigenous faith. Christian theology is being conveyed through categories of Hindu philosophy; Christian worship is being conducted in the manner and with the materials of Hindu puja; Christian sacraments sound like Hindu samskaras; Christian Churches copy the architecture of Hindu temples; Christian hymns are being set to Hindu music; Christian themes and personalities are being presented in styles of Hindu painting; Christian missionaries dress and live like Hindu sannyasins; Christian mission stations look like Hindu ashrams. And so on, all aspects of Christian thought, organization and activity are being disguised in Hindu forms. The fulfilment will be when converts to Christianity proclaim with complete confidence that they are Hindu Christians.
RE:Christian Ashramas, Christian Bhajans, Christian Sanyasins, Christian Puja
by Durgesh on Jun 13, 2003 06:39 AM
Why don't Hindus start converting christians? This will heal christians and we will be helping them too. They will not have to spend their energy in converting others and "heal" and "help" others.
RE:Christian Ashramas, Christian Bhajans, Christian Sanyasins, Christian Puja
by satya on Jun 11, 2003 08:23 PM
The message of Christ is not against any ethnic culture as such; it need only change heart & need not impose one culture over another; an Indian who accepts that message need not embrace a different culture; he'd only need to shed those things in his tradition & heritage which are not edifying. I feel this criticism of Christians adopting the Hindu culture is totally misplaced.
RE:Christian Ashramas, Christian Bhajans, Christian Sanyasins, Christian Puja
by Jai on Jun 14, 2003 10:23 AM
Christianity is a universal religion. No where does Christ instruct to follow western culture. He himself followed the culture and tradition of the place where He was born. Christians world over follow the traditions and culture of the place of their birth. So what is wrong in Indian Christians adhering to culture and traditions of their country when they worship their God?
What the author says about the pope is true. He is taking racism to a different level. A person like the pope who did not kiss the land during his visit the way he does elshwhere and a person whose church has more scandals than the list of criminal cases in a small state like Pondicherry has so much guts because he is sincere that he can have maximum success in India because Indians are poor, illiterate and easily impressionable. This is one more example of the double standards of the western world. Also, the author's respect of Gandhi is appreciated, when you think about it, India would be flourishing if not for Gandhi. On a rationale stand-point, his non-violence policies have made us without back-bones and makes us realize who bad our morale is.
Dear Mr. Lavkare, First lets get some things straight, you have been quoting out of Chowgle's book all the time. It seems funny, but its like quoting out of the Bible or the Bhagvad Gita.
First of all, isnt religion a personal thing, you should be reading about Sree Narayana Swamy from Kerala, thats what all humanity should follow, One religion, one god for mankind.
Religion is a purely personal decision, what beleifs I should follow should left to me, rather than somebody telling me to follow. If there is a god and he/she wishes that I should follow him, he will tell it to me, we dont need middlemen in connecting with god, coz, when you bring middlemen in the form of a priest or a pope, its as if they are demigods.
Hence its bad for the pope to try make followers in the name of god as much as for a priest to make followers, remember hitler, well he tried to bring in control using race supremacy as an ideology, if the same ideology of religion supremacy as the islamist fundamentalists try. It will destroy our country. Hence I implore that like any educated person, please say no to the pope and his proselytizing, but at the same time do not preach your own version.
The anti-conversion law(adopted by Tamilnadu)should be passed at the Centre for all States.Since conversions are a business,it should be made compliant will professional business rules - Transparency and Level playing field -Conversions through force or monetary inducements will be dealt with severe punishment (not less than 10 years RI). Further,all conversions have to display the venue, date and other details at the local tahsildar's/sub-registrar's office and also advertise the same in atleast one local and one national daily, a week in advance of the event. Non-compliance will result in punishment as above. This law should be stricly implemented till the below poverty level reaches 0. The law will be repealed when this milestone is attained. At this stage, conversions will be driven by the depth of each faith.
Why there are few Muslim to Christian conversions in India? Soft targets are easier,no? People converted by monetary inducements lose their identity,are unable to adjust to the new social norms,can't relate to others in the same faith and develop a deep sense of inferiority. We are sitting on a social time bomb. Quicker the action by the Centre, lesser the problem
excellent insight!
by sanjay choudhry on Jun 13, 2003 01:33 PM
Sujata: your strategic insight into these matters is fantastic. Keep up the good work. Most Hindus don't have the ability to recognize a timebomb till it explodes in their faces. You can judge that by the way there is a competition on this message board to try to appear to be more liberal and magnanimous than the next Hindu, all the while Mullahs and Missionaries thinking "what kind of religion can give birth to these pathetic people, who are unable to save their own civilization. We couldn't have asked for more". Being a woman, you show a better insight into how these things work, than most of these Hindu male who just crave for a pat on the back from other religions
RE: Excellent insight?
by VK on Jun 14, 2003 06:33 PM
For all your ire against "aggressive conversions" you have not cited even one reason why you are so much against conversions. I wish you would spell out at least one good reason. While outlining a detailed anti-conversion law you have added "at this stage, conversions will be driven by the depth of each faith" which, if I understand correctly, means that conversions would be possible at a later stage. My question is, does one need to become an authority in matters of religion before s/he can practice the religion and who will decide what that level of 'authority' is? This love for 'indigenous' faith is purely based on sentiment and an objection based on sentiment when not reinforced by sound reasoning is not valid. I cannot understand this revulsion to change when the only thing you can change about yourself is what you believe in. Can you change the way you look, or your caste or your parents, brothers, sisters or the fact that you were born in a particular country? Haven't we all accepted the good things- all that modern science has to offer- from outside India. If I find something better in matters of faith why should anyone stop me? What I choose to believe should be my fundamental right but unless I'm given the options how can I choose? The question you should be asking is, 'what is it that he has found that I don't have' rather than being blinded by rage.
