RE:Who is the oppressor??
by venkat on Apr 02, 2007 12:17 PM
Hi Anbu, Thanks for this information. This is precisely What i was trying to hit at. At present in TN, it the powerful OBCs vanniars, thevars who humiliate dalits. TN Govt cannot take action bec. of vote bank but they put the blame on Upper castes aka brahmins who are only 3% of the population.
RE:periyar was more a dog than human
by SURESH RAO on Apr 02, 2007 12:31 PM
DID u live during Periyar times. Did ur dad, mum or ur sister diagonised Periyar for mental disorders????...............TN is more balanced than anyother state in INDIA. Take a Walk.
RE:RE:periyar was more a dog than human
by kannan narayanan on Apr 02, 2007 03:19 PM
One tends develop a "Nandakumarian"(refers to the person who posted this message)image of Periyar if he just looks at the surface level. One should read Periyar's works to understand the importance of Periyar's role during that time.By the way, Nandakumar fails to have cognisance of certain facts like the Detroit,Manchester and rice bowl are in TN and TN is way ahead of most of the states.
RE:periyar was more a dog than human
by venkat on Apr 02, 2007 04:29 PM
No one is questioning the fact that Periyar hasworked for the downtrodden but there are some aspects of him which are controversial. There is no relation between Periyar's controversial items versus TN going way ahead in development. Though Nandakumar's may be little exaggerated, there were some aspects like marital life, tamil language etc., which shows on record, the controversy with Periyar.
RE:periyar was more a dog than human
by venkat on Apr 02, 2007 11:59 AM
Periyar never believed in marital relationships. He questioned the very foundation of marriage, leave alone the rituals. I don't know what prompted him to question this foundation. Some of my friends told me that he did this for women enpowerment. I feel that this policy is flawed as being humans, we atleast need to try to lead a moral life which differentiates us from animals.
Dear Servants of God! Please don't fight each other by harsh words. Leave aside casteism. As per elders advice, since long time (immemorial) we all are Servants of God only. So pleasing the God by way of maintaining discipline, remembering always God for His gratefulness, we all must have and obey this in mind. We should therefore, not fight each other. After all, our disobedience in the past lead not having much rain and day by day it's decreasing resulting into high cost of living and horrible climatic conditions. So, my request is to just to chant God's name and if you had adopted in the past, atheism, seek pardon from God, correct yourself, have faith in God,Who in turn will surely excuse His children and shower adequate rains to keep our State / Country cool both climatically and mentally. Fighting each other or arguing will lead to unnecessary problems only. Nowadays, no one is higher in caste qualitatively, but may be simply by birth. So forget about the casteism and thus atheism and SURRENDER TO GOD. For eg. you all already know, rain is declining every year and water is needed essentially, and even a particular State is not even honouring the order passed by a court, thus leading Kannadas envy on Tamils, etc. etc. going on. It's not too late, but TAKE GOD's NAME AND BOW DOWN TO HIM. don't fight please........... GOOD LUCK. JAI SHRI KRISHNA. ranganathan.
RE:General Advice please.........
by kannan narayanan on Apr 02, 2007 03:23 PM
To believe in something which does not exist is stupid. Any rational person would say 'No' to religion which is responsible for all this sad ate of affairs.
RE:General Advice please.........
by venkat on Apr 02, 2007 04:34 PM
Please tell me this "How do you know that 'something' does not exist?". Do you have proof to show that it does not exist. Agreed, believers don't have proof to show it exists. Do you have proof otherwise? Atleast believers can quote "We have no control over certain things like floods, earthquakes and so we might have reason to believe that God exists". The Supreme Power is above all religions and religions are only the paths to him. If they get misused, what could HE do? It is like someone misusing cell phone to send out obsecene SMS and others criticse the cell phone itself and ban its usage. You would very well rephrase your stmt: "To believe in something which MAY not exist COULD BE stupid".
RE:Periyar was anti-Dalit
by prithvi raj on Apr 02, 2007 12:24 PM
dear Sir Gnana Rajasekharan, my sincere admiration appreciation for the novel mission you're doing through the medium of film. by the fact you've been doing non-cmmercil movies that itself indication that you're striving to give to the society what it needs and not what it wants. your film Oru kannu Oru Paravai his an eye opner for those inhuman people who killed an innocent and meek child of God. the whole world admires the rich culture and history of tamilians; but the caste system that's still prevelent in it's lannd is shameful. i wish Periyar becomes a huge hit. may the present generation drink the philiophy of Periayr and earnestly strive forward to remove the inhuman pracitces from the soceity. i believe that Periyar fought against the norm of his time by leading a radical life. he was not against God but agaisnt those who misused his name for their selfish motives. Wish you great auccess!
RE:Periyar was anti-Dalit
by venkat on Apr 02, 2007 11:21 AM
You are right. In kandadevi temple chariot issue in Southern TN, it was Thevars (OBC caste) who are torturing dalits preventing from sharing the car rope. Periyar only uplifted the OBCs and now, they are turning their heat on Dalits. In TN, Dalits who have become panchayat presidents have no power and even they cannot sit on a chair (i saw this from NDTV) Periyar was anti-brahmin and anti-dalit too..he was pro-OBC.
RE:Periyar was anti-Dalit
by kannan narayanan on Apr 02, 2007 03:25 PM
Venkat! U r falwed in your observation . Most of Peryar's activities was for Dalit upliftment. Eg. Vaikom movement.
RE:Periyar was anti-Dalit
by venkat on Apr 02, 2007 04:37 PM
Yes, Periyar participated in Vaikom movement for dalits entry. Agreed. But 'most of periyar activities for dalits' is a big question mark.
Then why could Periyar not change the mindset of powerful OBCs in TN to patronise dalits? Vaikom was a old one but the kandadevi episode is happening every 2 years between thevars and dalits. What did MK do to solve it? No party is touching the issue because of vote bank. As a Dravidian leader, MK should have punished the guys who are involved in kandadevi. He was just sitting and watching the fun.
RE:RE:Periyar was anti-Dalit
by Tamil Arasan on Apr 02, 2007 05:42 PM
The problem between thevars & dalits was due to the instigation of jayalalitha who in her majesty's reign started instigating the devars against the dalits who were btw her fav. punching bag.
EVR married his friend's daughter, while his friend trusted him he became more trustworthy by marrying his friend's daughter itself (Real Nishabd as the age difference was more than 50 years btw them). A real reformist who can't avoid crush when in death bed also. Long live Periyar's followers who are much more willing to follow his footsteps the same wa as he did. I am very much scared so plz dun abuse me :-)
RE:RE:EVR's social Reformation
by kannan narayanan on Apr 02, 2007 03:26 PM
It is not lust which made him marry Maniammai but in order to pass on his vast hereditary wealth to a girl, he had to do so as the law did not allow him to pass it by any other means.
RE:EVR's social Reformation
by Vas on Apr 02, 2007 08:39 PM
Kannan, I see that you are naive on the adoption practice. Adoption is, and has always been historically, a full-proof method to enable someone to legally inherit one's legacy. It has been used by so many childless couples in ancient and modern India, and in the west, to enable inheritance to be passed on legitimately from childless couples to the adopted child/children.
In my own family, many of the childless couples even in the past (for example, one of my great aunts; my grandfather's cousins, my great-grandmother) adopted (both from within the family) and outside the family, and these children have had first precedence over all other relatives in inheriting any legacy.
Periyar's era was not even in 18th century or 17th century. He lived in the 20th century, when adopted children had full legal rights to inherit all legacy - financial, material, and family name - from their adoptive parents.
The fact that, as an educated man, Periyar persisted in marrying this woman so many decades younger than himself, and tried to pass it off as a legacy issue, makes me lose respect for this man. Not only is he a hypocrite and two-faced, but he assumed that all Indians are idiots and ignorant, and that he can easily pull a wool over everyone's eyes to hide his lust for younger women.
RE:EVR's social Reformation
by Bhishma on Apr 02, 2007 06:28 PM
This is the most rediculous argument one can give. Even muslims come up with such arguments to defend their Md's marriage with a 9 yr old child and consummiting the marriage with her - such things are AND were considered pedophilic!
He could have very well 'adopted her' as his 'daughter' to pass on his wealth. There is NO LAW that can prevent that and there is NO LAW that gives additional monetary previledges to a wife compared to a daughter.
If you compare south with north, north is still dominated by bramins. Because of this other caste people are not able to come up in life. Because of this you can see lots of illleteracy in Noth due to which there are lots of problems in Northerns states. But if you see south, the social reforms that was brought by EVR has really yielded results. These reforms made a so called low caste people to think that they are nowhere inferior to othere and they are comming up equally good. So because of this you can see growth of south indian states are much higher that north indian states.
RE:Social Reforms
by Ananthakrishnan Parthasarathy on Apr 02, 2007 11:18 AM
The so called Periyar movement has not been analysed properly.Periyar made to center stage by Brahmin Baiting alone His movement, traced from 1962 where Idols of Rama was garlanded with chappels in the so called frenzy of rational thinking/rationalism, will speak by itself.His congegations were mostly attended by misssionaries and other outfits.Today Dalits are all christians and even if you say a Dalit,he is understood as christian.The same Periyar had no guts to go against or speak against christianity or Islam propgating his so called rationality-anti god,anti religion.DK movement is a sham.I do not know why Brahmin baiting is done . Tamil society is still a very casteist society. Upper castes still rule and not the Brahmins as it is made out.There are issues of untouchability and attacks by the upper caste other than brahmins .Do you have guts to speak against them .Why castiest PMK was formed? Can you fight against them.Social emancipation is not all about fighting caste against caste.Now Brahmins are minority and a weaker section of the society and they need reservation in all jobs.You should read the article by Fancis Gautier on this which he has dispationately elucidated on Periyar movment plus Christian and muslim movements associated with this.I am an Indian and I look India as a whole and also its civilisation. Periyar is irrelevant in today's world.By the way,I am not a Brahmin.
RE:RE:Social Reforms
by Ramesh Kumar on Apr 02, 2007 04:47 PM
Hey, why are you tying all south states together, under TN... To my knowledge, outside TN, noone knows about EVR (I am from a south state and I heard about EVR just now from this article). It might be true that growth of south states is higher (inclusive of TN). It might also be true that upper-caste domination is much lower in the South (inclusive of TN). That does not mean south states are following or depending on TN and it's ideologies... There might be other reasons why the situation is similar in other southern states. Please do not think that whole South India is TN (same mistake northerners do). South India is much more than TN.
EV Ramaswamy Naicker, fought for the rights of the oppressed classes some 60 years back. The situation was different. Now brahmins and other so called forward classes have become oppressed classes, because of reservation policy etc. So it is not correct to compare todays brahmins with those 60 yrs back.
RE:periyar
by sahul hameed on Apr 02, 2007 11:06 AM
you are not right, i dont see any bramhins denied of drinking water in same glass, but brahmins did that 50 years back, still they used to follow in their homes, i seen that kind of practices done to me when i visit any of my friend's house (Brahmin), so stop shouting
RE:periyar
by Hemant Srinivasan on Apr 02, 2007 11:25 AM
And Muslims also do not allow Dalits to come into their homes for a glass of water though they have also converted to Islam. Before throwing stones at others, please explain what you mean by Dalit Muslims. Do you accept that there is caste system in Islam also as all the Muslim leaders are going around for reservation for Dalit Muslims.Does the Koran permit the caste system, please explain.
RE:periyar
by on Apr 02, 2007 11:45 AM
I too have a friend who had the same experience with Tamil Brahmins..They asked him his caste before letting him in their house and refused to let him in when he said he was a non brahmin..
RE:periyar
by Vas on Apr 02, 2007 01:06 PM
What a load of piss and lies! In the this day and age, I have not come across any brahmin who will not allow someone into their house. I'm not a brahmin (whom I dislike immesensely because they ARE the ones who oppress the SCs in Tamil Nadu) and I have never been denied entry into any brahmin colleagues home, even among collegues whose families' are orthodox.
Stop your pissing comments here! You are no doubt an OBC who hates brahmins because you are jealous of their success.
If any one's butt nneds to be kicked off the planet by the SCs, it is the OBCs' butts. You guys have been instrumental in supressing my community and torturing us. I'm for keeping brahmins, SCs, STs and dalits, and kicking all these powerful landowning wealthy abusive OBCs out of this country back to their ancestral homes in Africa!
RE:periyar
by venkat on Apr 02, 2007 11:56 AM
I won't deny that being a brahmin. There are some people amongst us who do this nonsense stuff still and bring bad name for the entire group.
RE:[object]
by venkat on Apr 02, 2007 11:25 AM
Agreed that Brahmins of yesteryears and there are some remnants today which practise discrimination and humiliation of other castes. But is is fading away and now the real problem for dalits is the OBC who have taken the position of what brahmins did before.
RE:RE:periyar
by venkat on Apr 02, 2007 11:24 AM
If they follow in their homes, they must be outdated crooks. We can't do anything about them. The questions is CURRENTLY, who are torturing dalits in TN? brahmins or OBC castes?? Please understand the plight of dalits who are tortured by Thevars (OBC) in kandadevi temple. Such 2 glass systems, earlier followed by brahmins, have been taken over by OBCs now to humiliate dalits.
RE:periyar
by moon mountain on Apr 02, 2007 11:28 AM
you are not right either... brahmins today r being denied education by creamy layer from so called lower caste. who have cornered all seats for themselves mis using reservation. i dont knw wat make them low!! they are so rich n politically strong. in tamil nadu (socially backward) communities lk nadar elect their reps 2 assembly. they r powerful. these rich low caste people dont care to do anything for the poor low caste people who elected them to powr. why do you blame the brahmins ? clean your own dirty backyard befor you blame brahmins
RE:periyar
by venkat on Apr 02, 2007 11:32 AM
You are right. Some of the most powerful OBCs are nadars, thevars, vanniars. They are rich as well as politically strong (i mean most of them). They have the say in everything politically. They have full control even in Temples. As now, they have gone forward and are rich too, why should they still continue to blame brahmins?
RE:If Periyar was born in North India, .....
by Manohar on Apr 02, 2007 05:53 AM
Yaa buddy lets do it! lets kick out BJP, VHP, RSS out of country..to pakistan.. and let congress and Comuunists rule. Mulayam(SP), laloo(RJD)--You guys Rock!! India benegi Italiano!! Then we can eat all the beef we want!! No reservation Row!! No riots!! Good Idea!! Im with you !! You find Rajan!! We will start with him..
RE:RE:If Periyar was born in North India, .....
by Ramamurthy Rajan on Apr 03, 2007 06:12 AM
Yo Yo Yo, Mr. Shizzle Mo Fizzle Manohar... This is Rajan here. Don't worry, I am not afraid of half-baked twits like you. You can eat all da beef you want, and yet you will remain a turd. The deal is that I ain't got no beef with nobody yo... I have no issues with any religion or caste in the world. If you read my postings with your day time glasses you will see that clearly! I am married to a non-Brahmin, and I have hung with people from all religious and nationalities. I stll have friends from different continents. So, clean yo head and then tum bhi benega Indian!
RE:RE:If Periyar was born in North India, .....
by Sandeep Dubey on Apr 02, 2007 10:22 AM
i know that you are not hindu that is why you not know about brahmin
RE:[object]
by Rajesh V on Apr 02, 2007 11:22 AM
it is the selfish polital leaders who are keeping the north indians still uneducated so that they can gain votes by some cheap popular gimmicks like reservations, brahmins donot oppress the other caste or make people low. why is that you want reservations or fight for its cause when there are different avenues to grow. its just kindling fire, what people who are from the backward class gained very high positions in different states did for their people like BSP, congress,SP, JDU, RJD etc did when they ruled for years together. why you guys kept/keep begging at their feet for the rights and not kick in their ass.
Respected Periyar considered brahmins, christians and muslims as 3 evils of society. He had deep hatred for christians who was responsible for the killing of most people in the world in the name of religion. He spoke openly against missionaries and he never considered christians as tamilans.
Alas, same missionaries are using his words for creating anti-hinduism and converting people to christianity.
RE:Father periyar vs christianity
by Bhishma Bharadwaj on Apr 03, 2007 05:45 AM
First get you history straight: 1) 'Respected Periyar'(?!) was against a) the language of his patron people [Calling Tamil as a "language of barbarians"] b) his own religion [his anti-hindu remarks in addition to his anti-brahmin remarks (based on his narrow and superficial knowledge about his own religion- thinking Hindu = Brahmin) are widely known] c) his own country [declared Indian independence as a day of slavery and declared it as a day of mourning] That is a degerative self-negating disease - and recognized as such in Psychology!
2)His (mythical?) 'deep hatred' against a)Christians made him give unconditional support to Britishers and the missionaries of his time b) Muslims made him join hands with Jinnah and 'muslim league brothers' c) Brahmins made him absolutely voilent and often savelegy unethical and immoral against them. This is called "Stockholm Syndrome", where in the true and POWERFUL enemy is suddenly seen as the friend and the victim develops an 'ideology' that makes him go against his own people [who are either weak, vulnerable, ethical or moral towards such mental derangement]. Like going against the police [an ethical force] declaring it as being 'weak', 'corupt' etc. and helping the kidnappers!
RE:Father periyar vs christianity
by Gowri Shankar on Apr 02, 2007 04:45 AM
Periyar is one of the leaders because what he felt right appealed to the majority of the people and even though he his language and choice of words were not found to be respectful against brahmins one should not forget that he started a movement that was necessary. If you look today at tamil nadu, the distribution of education and wealth is more widespread than other states. One need not justify his acts, but they were necessary against the rule of the phony JawaharLal Nehru and his daughter.
The movie should add some insight into his life. It should be interesting to watch it.
RE:Father periyar vs christianity
by Gajanan Mohite on Apr 02, 2007 06:05 AM
Mr Gowri Shankar , Why not a movie on the new nirvana of the present day TN leaders falling head over heels to Saibaba nad Ammachi. It shows the utter inefficiency of Periyarites. Perhaps a movie titled " The Reincarnation of Periyarites" with a opening scene , like the party workers carrying computers with web sites of gods and goddesseses in a bullock cart and some Periyarites searching for chappals. Then suddenly a Periyarite shouts " No more chappals, there are many more web sites like this" Then typical music, one song and then all the Periyarites doing a group dance to say that they are tired of this web site evolution of gods and goddesses. Then the script should continue for their new found nirvana and how they slowly go in for opening ceremonies of people oriented projects of Saibaba and Ammachi. Wonder pe thunder !!! What a movie it would be " The Reincarnation of Periyarites"
