We look for SABANA AZMI and similar personalities to come with the same strategy to correct their own people (i mean Muslims). Otherwise who will come forward? Since lot of unseducation, religious fanatism and intollerance to other religion is there in her own people, it will be always a hope that Mrs. Azmi kind of people come forward. But most unfortunate thing is that Mrs. Azmi kind of people are very much scared of FATWA. Since that is the case then who will come forward to correct their own cummunity? Or they donot want their own community be corrected, live better and lead better life? My second point is, is it necessary to bring some old issues of a society in the present days and look for the award. Particularly Hind religion is much more advanced as compared to the period (long before) shown in the movie. So, if DEEPA Mehta, Sabana Azmi and similar people put more attention to the present days problems and give the message how the present days' societies put their future STEPS, that is realy more desurable and meaningful. If Deepa Mehta has gutts, do same short of movie on other religion particularly in Muslims becuase they need to do lot of correction of their community to advancement in modern days. Similarly she should show some courage for Christians religious people who are converting poors and only help them in the name of religion.
We indians should be so ashamed of ourselves. India is yet to win an oscar. Iran, South Africa, China, etc have won it but our great movie industry has no talent to produce movies of oscar quality. A large portion of the blame is on bollywood movies where regional movies like Telugus are not considered for oscars.
More Telugu movies should be considered, then we shall win an oscar.
RE:What a great Candian film
by Uttamkumar Samanta on Jan 26, 2007 05:56 AM
I donot think only Telegu Movies have qualities to win Oscar. But there are many regional movies (including telegu, tamil, bengali, maratha, kannada, malayalam etc) deserve much higher qualities than Hindi movies to be niminated for the national and international award. Indian film industry should put more attention to that. Can you imagin Debdas, Paheli (of ki ki ki ki... I mean, Shah Rukh Khan) was nominated for oscar. What a joke?
RE:IAF CRASH
by tua mandal on Jan 27, 2007 12:08 AM
do u really know what u r said.i lost a very dear friend of mine.think about his family.do u know what is to be a fighter pilot's wife.no u dont.tumhara kya gaaya... hamara gaaya.a mother lost a son a wife lost her husband and a unborn child lost his father.tumhara kya gaaya.
pans labyrinth too is a masterpiece but it is a serious take on alice in wonderland and delves in and out of fantasy , whereas water is like the old fashioned yet totally realistic european style personal movie which has a universal theme and the finale seethes with optimism for the human race , also the character of chirriya is much better portrayed then the little girl in pan labyrinth, lets also see if rdb s nomination in bafta comes to any good , indeed one misses omkara as it was the best movie of the year . never mind vishal will have his day too, good wishes and allah be with deepa on the day of reckoning i hope she wins as i loved earth fire and bollywood hollywood
A movie about woman. Written and directed by a woman. All the major casts are woman. And most of the replies against the movie are by woman. :-)
One thing they are forgetting though.. If Mahatma Phule, agarkar, Raja ram mohan roy, Maharshi Karve, Ambedkar hadn't stood for their caouse they wouldnt even have learned hot to write.
"keshawapan", Sati were all the tradition followed by hindus and at some places still they are being.
No one denies that there are improvment because of the above said people but there is still a lot need to be done.
Deepa mehta's movie is just an eye opener what kind of society we were living in. As a movie it is really a good movie meaning story, acting screenplay etc etc. Much better compared to RDB.
There is no need to fight over it. Everyone knows how hypocrite some of our so called cultural police are.
There are a few points I would like to raise here:
1. Why do we give so much importance to Oscars? Why not any Indian Film awards? Because it is from america. Lot of you would say because it is worldwide recognized. Fine. Some would say because they are just.
2. Fine even if you want to give importance to it, why did India not choose Water as its official entry. One country can send one nomination, right? India sent Rang de basanti and not water. Presuming I know nothing about film-making, even if you were to ask anyone in fild industry, water would not be called a great fild from the technical excellence point of view. Its just an okay movie, neither direction is great not cinematography. Then why? Because it raised an important issue about women' condition in India, BACK IN 1940. Now, a lot of you would say that it still reflects conditions of women in India in one way or the other, meaning child marriages widow's social conditions etc. Agreed, SOME Indians from one generation back (meaning who are 50-60 years old now) don't have very good perspective about widows or divorced (mostly in rural India). However, as lot of you are arguing you should accept the faults of your society, we could send Water for Oscar from India, though, in MY point of view, Corruption in Politics ( or powerful ministers) is an issue which outstands in TODAY's society, which was well portrayed by Rang de basanti. Also, movie was exceptional on the technical front, cinematography, direction etc. As well, and mind you this is a very important ingredient of cinema, the movie provided ENTERTAINMENT, unlike (in my view) water. So I guess, the decision of sending Rang de basanti, and not water for oscars as an officiall entry from India, was justified. Lage raho Munnabhai would have been equally good on all these fronts as well. So, when India had two outstanding movies, RDB and LRMB, to choose from why would India turn to Water for its entry to Oscar, especially when RDB and LRMB dealt with two burning issues Indian society TODAY(and not in 1940s) needs to find a solution to. So there is ansolutely no reason to be shameful about Water not being official entry from India to Oscar. And why are we arguing about it today here? Because Water was shortlisted in last 5. Well, thinking broadly about it that could very well be a strategy America takes when selecting foreign movies for Oscars as point out by Mr Thakur. SO please lets be proud of movies like RDB and LRMB which were worthy of going to Oscar.
3. And I guess we all should also think about what we are portraying of India to the other societies by movies like Water. A very common amrrican (who has not been to India) has an image of India where widows are burnt alive with their husband. and so on and so forth and I guess most of us know how much truth is in that. I am saying this because I came here (US) for my studies and people asked me questions like does SATI and all
RE:Let us think with an open mind
by anita r on Jan 25, 2007 12:42 AM
First of all Water was selected because it is a more indentifiable movie for a jury comprised of Westerners.It addresses a serious issue in a mature and dignified manner,there are no elaborate and superfluous song and dance routines so it is a movie that appeals to a mature ,politically aware audience.If you think that subjugation and exploitation of women occurred 60-50 years ago under the British and is now merely a thing of the past,then you like a great number of young,urban Indians are pitifully ignorant.
Certain films show us an ugly reality which we choose not to address.We prefer pseudo-profound films like Rang De Basanti that pretend to deal with serious issues while shamelessly playing to the gallery.What positive image of India are we trying to sell to the West when millions of people starve and die of preventable diseases?One out of every 10 children in India is sexually abused(in most cases by a known adult).This is the reality most middle-class Indians shun.We want the West to acknowledge and appreciate the malls,skyscrapers,multiplexes which we think makes us oh-so-modern.We know nothing of the India that has to struggle everyday merely to survive,we choose to know nothing of that India.It is our secret shame that makes us so defensive of movies like Water because women are still burnt and treated like objects who exist merely to suit a man's purpose and needs.
If you want to think with an open mind consider the people who exist on the fringes of society.These are people who you will not see in a Bollywood film for that would quite bring down the'entertainment' factor.
RE:RE:Let us think with an open mind
by Kunal Rai on Jan 25, 2007 02:28 AM
Well, I am not underplaying the issue of women's propblems. I said "Now, a lot of you would say that it still reflects conditions of women in India in one way or the other, meaning child marriages widow's social conditions etc. Agreed". Also, I donot think that women had only problems 50-60 years back. There are still issues to be addressed like the one you raised about sexual abuse of kids. I totally agree, but make a movie on that. The movie dealt with widows'c conditions in India like child marriage happening and sending the child widow to a compeletely secluded place. May be I am ignorant, but give me an example of a place where this particular thing still happens.
Also, I am not saying that Water didn't deal with an issue, it did. But I was trying to justify the decision (again it is my perspective).
Moreover, Rang de basanti dealt with a current issue of corruption which you and I deal with in our daily life. and in MY opinion it was a movie to open eyes of today's youth and wonderfully done from the movie-making aspect which I think Water lacked. So there was no injustice in not choosing water and choosing RDB.
By no means am I saying that the greatness of India is in Skyscrapers or Malls etc. I doubt that WE choose to know nothing of India which has to struggle alot. Everyone has to struggle alot and everyone sort of knows that. It is good to bring that point up and I DIDNOT say that moview like Water should not be made at all. I was trying to compare the two movies which had to go for Oscar.
And I disagree that bollywood does not make movies for people who are on the fringes of the society. Dor dealt with the problems of a widow woman, but very nicely. Monsoon wedding dealt with Child abuse. These are just examples. So lets not be shameful on ourselves for anything, that's what was my motto. Boolywood does make all sorts of stuff, but the topic here was to be shameful because Water was chosen in last 5 in the Oscar nomination and it was not official entry of India.
RE:RE:RE:Let us think with an open mind
by anita r on Jan 25, 2007 03:51 AM
Comparing 'Water' with 'Rang De Basanti' is futile.They are both very different movies.Water's story maybe set in India but it is a movie made by Canadian producers and directed by Deepa Mehta, who is based in Canada.I do not think it shameful that Water chosen to represent Canada, gets nominated and Rang De Basanti,India's entry does not.First of all the Best Foreign Film Oscar is no big deal.Numerous films have won in this category and we barely remember a few(eg.Crouching Tiger and Life is Beautiful come to mind).The Oscars is a American Awards ceremony mainly for American films.Most Oscars are won by Americans.Thats the way it is and has always been.It is their awards ceremony and we have our own,just like we have our own elections.Why it is so important for an Indian film to get an Oscar is quite beyond me.The desperation and hankering to have an Indian(Bollywood) film win an Oscar is kind of funny in a sad-sad way.The media fuels it and people for some reason begin to analyze and dissect India's entry to the Oscar's as though the country's very future depends on it.It's silly to even argue on this topic(So do not argue on this topic)
P.S.Rang De Basanti was a silly movie.It pretended to be an issue-based movie.Guess you were the taken in with the pretty,mindless gloss.
RE:RE:RE:Let us think with an open mind
by Sudipa Sengupta on Jan 25, 2007 10:10 AM
Just make a trip to so called religous pilgrimages like Varanasi, Mathura, Brindavan and you will encounter many of these widows, abandoned by their families; living a life of penury and forced to struggle for their existence. The issue of widow abandonment by their families is very much relevant, its just that some of us are unaware!
RE:Reservation is necessary
by raghvendra kumar on Jan 25, 2007 12:35 PM
one the one hand we are trying to prohibit beggary by posting various banners at public places on the basis that it gives rise to wrong tendency. then why to encourage reservation.is it somrthing better than begging.
RE:RE:RE:Let us think with an open mind
by anita r on Jan 25, 2007 03:52 AM
Comparing 'Water' with 'Rang De Basanti' is futile.They are both very different movies.Water's story maybe set in India but it is a movie made by Canadian producers and directed by Deepa Mehta, who is based in Canada.I do not think it shameful that Water chosen to represent Canada, gets nominated and Rang De Basanti,India's entry does not.First of all the Best Foreign Film Oscar is no big deal.Numerous films have won in this category and we barely remember a few(eg.Crouching Tiger and Life is Beautiful come to mind).The Oscars is a American Awards ceremony mainly for American films.Most Oscars are won by Americans.Thats the way it is and has always been.It is their awards ceremony and we have our own,just like we have our own elections.Why it is so important for an Indian film to get an Oscar is quite beyond me.The desperation and hankering to have an Indian(Bollywood) film win an Oscar is kind of funny in a sad-sad way.The media fuels it and people for some reason begin to analyze and dissect India's entry to the Oscar's as though the country's very future depends on it.It's silly to even argue on this topic(So do not argue on this topic)
P.S.Rang De Basanti was a silly movie.It pretended to be an issue-based movie.Guess you were the taken in with the pretty,mindless gloss.
RE:RE:RE:Let us think with an open mind
by arnab prakash deka on Jan 25, 2007 09:53 AM
The importance of oscar is recognised worldwide.No doubt its american but it has made a name for itself internationally and an Oscar recognition in the International film Arena is considered to be the highest Honor. Now as far as biases are concerned..I believe where humans are involved biases exist. There is no parameter to judge that. As far as why water was not an Indian entry and a Canadian Entry is because though water was made on an Indian subject by an canadian Indian Director, it was a canadian project and had nothing to do with bollywood. Also one example of a possible bias could be why Black was not an Indian entry which in my personal opinion had a brilliant chance and instead a Bogus film like Paheli was sent....
RE:RE:RE:RE:Let us think with an open mind
by jithin james on Jan 25, 2007 12:12 PM
Water is a clearly outdated film. This film lacks the class ,which Ms Mehta's earlier films had. It was selected for the oscars because most of the Americans think of India like the way it is being portrayed in the film. The other draw back of the film is the lack of competent actors in two major roles (John Abraham, Lisa Ray is hopeless). But to give credit to the director she has got a good set of actors to play other characters and managed to extract the maximum out of this non actors. I dont expect water to win as oscar and I wont be delighted if it wins one.
RE:Let us think with an open mind
by akhil sharma on Jan 25, 2007 12:00 AM
the point is not giving importance to oscars... its just that they are not biased they give awards to deserving ones not just to "the BIGGES" in the industry...as seen here ...
RE:RE:Let us think with an open mind
by V H on Jan 27, 2007 07:41 AM
Oscars are not biased... i guess you don't know the inside scoop... or you live in India without proper exposure!!
RE:Let us think with an open mind
by Muralidharan S on Jan 27, 2007 06:35 AM
Total BS post! If there is someone in the film industry that says that cinematography in 'Water' sucked, he/she needs to be thrown out of the industry. RDB or LRMB cannot even hold a candle to 'Water' in the cinematography category.
RDB and LRMB are good candidates for the mass movie category where everything is exaggerated to provide entertainment consisting of songs, dance, and drama. In the Indian National Awards you have this category called - "Best film providing wholesome entertainment" and this is normally reserved for films made by such people as Yash Chopra and Karan Johar. RDB and LRMB belonged to that category.
Here, we are talking about filmmaking as an artform. And 'Water' eminently qualifies.
I saw Water at a festival & its just another example of Deepa "exoticising" something about India and making it palpable to the West. Reality be damned! The most infuriating thing about this film is the way it begins with a title that says "19xx, India" (cant remember the year.) It doesn't even say where in India this is set. So any non-Indian watching will think "oh this is general India".
This practice was prevalent with a small sect of Hindus and not everywhere, but Ms Mehta is not in the business of reality anyways! If she was, she would not even dream of casting Lisa Ray who cant even speak a word of believable Hindi (again, invisible to non Indians.) Obviously she's there to look white and appealing, without a semblance of reality, and so is John Abraham who seems to have walked out of leather pants and walked into a dhoti!
Even Deepa's stupid take on lesbianism (Fire) did not seem to consider that lesbianism can be a natural instinct for some women, but instead tried to convince us that two neglected housewives can get into it now and then and be ostracised for it!
In all her movies, the drama is orchestrated, unmotivated, unreal and unbelievable. She got lucky with Water. She hired an excellent cinematographer.
RE:Water simply a fake!
by on Jan 26, 2007 08:01 PM
I agree totally.All of Deepa's concepts are about selling the worst of Indian social past in a package of good cinamatography to the West.She has not projected even one good Indian value(Indian culture being so ancient has many )and projected it in good light.It is easy to sell blight and make a tear-jerker of it, but takes a master film maker to identify the good in society.The virtues of a society are what needs identification and nuturing!
I have always considered Deepa Mehta as a director with a purpose. Her 'Fire' was impressive and "Water" is outstanding and extremely meaningful (though 'Earth' was comparatively very low). I presented a reflection on 'Water' in the 'culture class' in my master's program in the US and everyone was touched by the theme. In fact some were angry that such atrocities are still practiced though much lesser than before. The central character, the Sri Lankan girl's acting was outstanding and natural. I wish the movie bags some award at the Oscars and that will inspire Deepa and probably others to strive to take up such issues in future and help the cause of a better world.
RE:Water
by random thoughts on Jan 25, 2007 10:33 AM
in every sense Fire was a shitty movie and so is Earth. i've 't watched water yet. but i bet it would be in similar lines. forget about the issue its showing. but the reality behind it is always exaggerated. and she deliberately maligns hindus. jus bcoz she got an entry into Oscar doesn't make her "a great director" and "a director with purpose".
Water does not face tough competition, Pan's Labyrinth comes close but it is also nominated in several other categories, that may just off shoot people from voting for it in the best foreign language film. The biggest competitior VOLVER is out of the fray so the race does seem easier.
The movie is very good and it shows something which everyone can associate with and that is being human and feeling love. It also represents a time when Gandhi was trying to change the Indian society..
SO good luck Deepa, I think this will be the one for you!
