India is a failed state and a farce democracy. All this hullabol of superpower status is being created by NASSCOM and media whose vested intrerest is well known. Comman man is wtill living in poverty.
RE:India a failed state
by Golden on Mar 15, 2007 10:14 PM
i agree with you. we measure progress with GDP and the sensex rise but actually this doesnt bring prosperity unless we make sure that every common man in india is sleeping with filled stomach and no farmer is forced to commit suicide.
RE:RE:India a failed state
by Power India on Mar 15, 2007 10:17 PM
Your comment reflects the actual state of our "great country"- soon it will be like Indonesia. Poor will be too poor. The rich like Ambanis will become a nation in the nation.
RE:RE:RE:India a failed state
by Akash on Mar 15, 2007 10:29 PM
There is corruption everywhere!!! I had not encountered most of it as I had not visited Govt. Offices as my parents did most of the job,I can give you two examples, my mom told me to go to BSNL office to get my internet hours renewed when broadband had not arrived. I usually used to go to a private shop owner who had all the cards, well he was too far off and the main BSNL govenment building was nearby,I went asked the guard outside where I could find the office where I could have my BSNL card renewed, he told me go to the second floor,I went to the second floor,there was a babu chewing pan over there with his feet on the table,I said I have come to have my internet renewed,he said y have u come here???in a very rude manner and then said go to the third floor, I went to the third floor,there was a senior officer sitting over there,I said I have come to have my internet renewed,he shouted at me leave your shoes outside!!! so I went out to take my shoes off, when I came back I said I have to have my internet renewed,he said y have u come here??? I said that person on the second floor told me to come here,he said do you have some specific id??? I said no,he said u want it renewed!!! I said yes, he said go to the second floor,I said I just came from there,he did not respond and started talking to another person about problems in his house!! I came to the second floor again,the babu was still sitting there with 2 friends,I said I went up there but they told me I have to come to you to have my internet renewed,he said he told u that???? then he cracked some joke with a friend of his and told me actually did u see the office near the gate,internet gets renewed over there, so I came down to the same place where the guard stood,I asked is this the place where one gets a internet renewal card??? he said yes!!! I went to the office,there was a lock outside!!!! and I saw an old lady fighting with the guard out there that she was coming to the office for the past 2 weeks to have her phone connection restored!!! I went to the private shop owner then.This is incidence 1.
Now for incidence 2. I had to have my passport made so I went to the passport officer at D.M.'s office, he told me office is closed it opens between 10 and 2 in the morning,i came the next day,he said all papers in order??? I said here are the papers,he checked it and said is this your bank account details??? I said yes,he said go put some money in your account so that I know it's still running!!! so I went back again, I had it done,came back to the office the next day 10.30 sharp, he told me please I am a busy person and started telling someone how he was humiliated at a railway station by female police officers and how bad it is that women go for jobs,I said are my papers in order??? he said can't you see I am busy??? we work from morning till 11 in the night, u guys are always in a hurry, so I stood there, he then turned and said yes papers are in order,and then became quite polite and said listen your work will be done u got to give 200 rupees!!!! I said 200???? he said I have to tell others that u need a passport afterall the system works like that u understand, I said ok knowing that he was trying to imply he wont give me the receipt and throw away my passport form if I did not give him an additional 200 bucks!!!! I had already spent the original amount for the form needed by Govt. of India and this guy was a govt. in himself,he told me to specifically come the next day with 200 bucks or else I wont get my receipt and when I went with 200 bucks he did it what we see on tv corrupt guys doing, asking for money under the table literally!!!then the police came for verfication,one of them seemed half drunk,he looked at the picture in the form,then at me, he said yup the same person,there was another police officer with him,both of them came inside,and though they did not mention any money,one of them said,we need an affidavit in 2 hours that u belong to this house that u r this person, I said but I have already put all the relevant papers with the form??? he said but the form has to go today,I need it today or else your form wouldn't reach,and then they kept staring at me with eagerness,I said can I do it till saturday??? they said ok, I said the form will stay back till then?? they said yes. Now I had the affidavit made that I lived in the same house that I live in and that I am the same person that I am, then I forgot the name of the officer who came, I went and asked another officer,he said thodi suvidha shulk lagti hain?? I said but I don't have any money at the moment,he said ab dekho bhai,agar nahi de sakte to koi problem nahin tumhare upar false case lagaa sakte hain woh officers, passport apne aap stall ho jayega, gosh!!!! so they asked for suvidha shulk of 300 bucks!!! or else they were going to fabricate a false case against me as they threatened me to do so. Now within a week I got a call from the local intelligence officer,he was rather polite and said beta tumhara form aa gaya hain?? I said so u have to come for verification?,he said no u have to come. wierd. I always thought they came to verify but who knows,so I went to their office,he was standing outside,he said chai piyoge? I said nahin uncle and wanted to free myself from this blood thristy scoundrels once and for all. He verified,saw my photographs,saw my details and papers,I signed the papers and then he said those golden words,kitna laayein hon? I said kya? He said arre passport ban raha hain kitna laayein hon? I said 200,he said itna to humare bacchhe har din udaate hain,meri salary isse zyada hain, I said ab aap batao uncle kitna lagega, he said 500. I said mere paas to itne hee hain,he said dekho bhai humara kuuch nahin jaata tum jaise log har din iss office ke chakkar katate hain,ab aaraam se de do,kaam nahi latkega aur kaam rukega bhi nahin. now I had only 300 left at home my parents were out of town and he was going to dump all this effort of mine running to get my passport made, he then said baaki 300 lekar aana tab kaam hoga,300,bhaag to nahin jayoge??? I said ab uncle aapse kya bhaagna,I came back with the 300 he said chai piyoge??? I said no. I said ab to koi verification koi bhaagna nahin, wahin se hoga? he said yes, I said kitna time lega? he said 6 months, I said 6 months!!! form mein tha maximum 3 months minimum 1, he said ab aise hee kaam hota hain,khush hon ki tumhara jaldi ho raha hain jo manaa kerte hain unka isse bhi zyada leta hain!! in fact if you see the cost I bared paying this private govt. within the govt. it was equal to the actual cost of the passport to be made by the govt. of india - 1000 bucks. 1000 to the real govt. 1000 to this private govt. within the system. small incidents not to the magnitude of the scale of corruption in this country but still shows a picture how it operates and you can't run from them,u go to them u step out with your pockets empty!!!! If India shines officers like these make it whine!!!
RE:RE:RE:RE:India a failed state
by sabrish menon on Mar 15, 2007 10:38 PM
Sounds too good to be true...sounds more like some flick from our bollywood cinema...& even if its not so, then Akash...I guess you should definitely be from some state in UP....
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:India a failed state
by Akash on Mar 15, 2007 11:10 PM
Vijay in fact I feel awful my parents were going through this, But seriously speaking,those kids who spend 200 everyday jinke baap ghoos khaate hain aur aise bante hain jaise desh unki private property hain,kod se mar jaayein logon ke paise ka kha ke!!!!
Gowda's concentrate on keeping the power. Now focussed on Cauvery issue for no reason. After bring up Cauvery issue no one will be bothered of infastructure. Learn from China you Politician. You Politicians you guys need atleast to degree to contest in election. As you save Cauvery, save banglore now.
Sugar coating or resting on our laurels have led to the down fall of many and India is no excpetion. India has accomplished little in the past few years but we should be looking at what has not been accomplished. It would be foolish to bury our heads in the sand and say "We cannot change everything overnight". I think nobody expects a road to be laid overnight. There are numerous instances where deadlines have not been met and it has bled the country of valuable resources in completing the next task. There is dearth of water, power and no proper sanitation facilities. When the government promises land and water to companies, how about water to the individual who is going to live in the cities to support the companies? Let us no be so thin skinned and keep taking a defensive approach to criticism. We should keep it forthright. Call a spade a spade.
RE:Call a spade a spade
by Akash on Mar 15, 2007 10:29 PM
There is corruption everywhere!!! I had not encountered most of it as I had not visited Govt. Offices as my parents did most of the job,I can give you two examples, my mom told me to go to BSNL office to get my internet hours renewed when broadband had not arrived. I usually used to go to a private shop owner who had all the cards, well he was too far off and the main BSNL govenment building was nearby,I went asked the guard outside where I could find the office where I could have my BSNL card renewed, he told me go to the second floor,I went to the second floor,there was a babu chewing pan over there with his feet on the table,I said I have come to have my internet renewed,he said y have u come here???in a very rude manner and then said go to the third floor, I went to the third floor,there was a senior officer sitting over there,I said I have come to have my internet renewed,he shouted at me leave your shoes outside!!! so I went out to take my shoes off, when I came back I said I have to have my internet renewed,he said y have u come here??? I said that person on the second floor told me to come here,he said do you have some specific id??? I said no,he said u want it renewed!!! I said yes, he said go to the second floor,I said I just came from there,he did not respond and started talking to another person about problems in his house!! I came to the second floor again,the babu was still sitting there with 2 friends,I said I went up there but they told me I have to come to you to have my internet renewed,he said he told u that???? then he cracked some joke with a friend of his and told me actually did u see the office near the gate,internet gets renewed over there, so I came down to the same place where the guard stood,I asked is this the place where one gets a internet renewal card??? he said yes!!! I went to the office,there was a lock outside!!!! and I saw an old lady fighting with the guard out there that she was coming to the office for the past 2 weeks to have her phone connection restored!!! I went to the private shop owner then.This is incidence 1.
Now for incidence 2. I had to have my passport made so I went to the passport officer at D.M.'s office, he told me office is closed it opens between 10 and 2 in the morning,i came the next day,he said all papers in order??? I said here are the papers,he checked it and said is this your bank account details??? I said yes,he said go put some money in your account so that I know it's still running!!! so I went back again, I had it done,came back to the office the next day 10.30 sharp, he told me please I am a busy person and started telling someone how he was humiliated at a railway station by female police officers and how bad it is that women go for jobs,I said are my papers in order??? he said can't you see I am busy??? we work from morning till 11 in the night, u guys are always in a hurry, so I stood there, he then turned and said yes papers are in order,and then became quite polite and said listen your work will be done u got to give 200 rupees!!!! I said 200???? he said I have to tell others that u need a passport afterall the system works like that u understand, I said ok knowing that he was trying to imply he wont give me the receipt and throw away my passport form if I did not give him an additional 200 bucks!!!! I had already spent the original amount for the form needed by Govt. of India and this guy was a govt. in himself,he told me to specifically come the next day with 200 bucks or else I wont get my receipt and when I went with 200 bucks he did it what we see on tv corrupt guys doing, asking for money under the table literally!!!then the police came for verfication,one of them seemed half drunk,he looked at the picture in the form,then at me, he said yup the same person,there was another police officer with him,both of them came inside,and though they did not mention any money,one of them said,we need an affidavit in 2 hours that u belong to this house that u r this person, I said but I have already put all the relevant papers with the form??? he said but the form has to go today,I need it today or else your form wouldn't reach,and then they kept staring at me with eagerness,I said can I do it till saturday??? they said ok, I said the form will stay back till then?? they said yes. Now I had the affidavit made that I lived in the same house that I live in and that I am the same person that I am, then I forgot the name of the officer who came, I went and asked another officer,he said thodi suvidha shulk lagti hain?? I said but I don't have any money at the moment,he said ab dekho bhai,agar nahi de sakte to koi problem nahin tumhare upar false case lagaa sakte hain woh officers, passport apne aap stall ho jayega, gosh!!!! so they asked for suvidha shulk of 300 bucks!!! or else they were going to fabricate a false case against me as they threatened me to do so. Now within a week I got a call from the local intelligence officer,he was rather polite and said beta tumhara form aa gaya hain?? I said so u have to come for verification?,he said no u have to come. wierd. I always thought they came to verify but who knows,so I went to their office,he was standing outside,he said chai piyoge? I said nahin uncle and wanted to free myself from this blood thristy scoundrels once and for all. He verified,saw my photographs,saw my details and papers,I signed the papers and then he said those golden words,kitna laayein hon? I said kya? He said arre passport ban raha hain kitna laayein hon? I said 200,he said itna to humare bacchhe har din udaate hain,meri salary isse zyada hain, I said ab aap batao uncle kitna lagega, he said 500. I said mere paas to itne hee hain,he said dekho bhai humara kuuch nahin jaata tum jaise log har din iss office ke chakkar katate hain,ab aaraam se de do,kaam nahi latkega aur kaam rukega bhi nahin. now I had only 300 left at home my parents were out of town and he was going to dump all this effort of mine running to get my passport made, he then said baaki 300 lekar aana tab kaam hoga,300,bhaag to nahin jayoge??? I said ab uncle aapse kya bhaagna,I came back with the 300 he said chai piyoge??? I said no. I said ab to koi verification koi bhaagna nahin, wahin se hoga? he said yes, I said kitna time lega? he said 6 months, I said 6 months!!! form mein tha maximum 3 months minimum 1, he said ab aise hee kaam hota hain,khush hon ki tumhara jaldi ho raha hain jo manaa kerte hain unka isse bhi zyada leta hain!! in fact if you see the cost I bared paying this private govt. within the govt. it was equal to the actual cost of the passport to be made by the govt. of india - 1000 bucks. 1000 to the real govt. 1000 to this private govt. within the system. small incidents not to the magnitude of the scale of corruption in this country but still shows a picture how it operates and you can't run from them,u go to them u step out with your pockets empty!!!! If India shines officers like these make it whine!!!
Not everything can be done Overnight. It takes lot of time to transform a country of our size. Till now, we are able to attract big companies with th help of some very good CMs like S.M. Krishna and Chandra Babu Naidu. We need more people like these who single mindedly worked to improve things. And we have to have some timelines set to ensure an allround development. Simply cribbing and comparing ourselves with highly developed countries at this stage is foolish. We started much late. We may not and should not take the amount of time they have taken to build their infrastructure. But expecting that overnight india turns into USA is Just Not Possible.
RE:Not everthing Ovenight!
by Paula Joseph on Mar 15, 2007 10:28 PM
Chandra Babu Naidu was thrown out of the govt because of his negligence on many fields including Agriculture. His focus has always been on Hyderabad & neglected rest of Andhra pradesh. Thats why people wanted to taught him a lesson. However, the present govt is much worse than him.
RE:Politicians
by Krishna on Mar 15, 2007 08:19 PM
Corruption now has ecome an integral part of our system. It is another thing that it should be eliminated. But i feel, if atleast 50-70% money allotted to different projects and development programmes are meeting the requirement then i will be satisfied. It has happened in A.P. People say that Chandra Babu naidu has made lot of money being CM. But nevertheless i am not bothered because he still did a lot to the state and particularly to Hyd and in general to the infrastructural development. i will be happy if he comes back to power.
RE:RE:Politicians
by on Mar 15, 2007 08:39 PM
This is another problem with India. People think it's ok to be corrupt to an extent ! But where do you draw the line ? Why should anybody get away with corruption ? All it should take is to put one big guy behind bars and the entire system will start to rectify itself.
If someone wants to make money, he or she should be in business, NOT in politics or bureaucracy !
RE:RE:RE:Politicians
by Akash on Mar 15, 2007 10:19 PM
There is corruption everywhere!!! I had not encountered most of it as I had not visited Govt. Offices as my parents did most of the job,I can give you two examples, my mom told me to go to BSNL office to get my internet hours renewed when broadband had not arrived. I usually used to go to a private shop owner who had all the cards, well he was too far off and the main BSNL govenment building was nearby,I went asked the guard outside where I could find the office where I could have my BSNL card renewed, he told me go to the second floor,I went to the second floor,there was a babu chewing pan over there with his feet on the table,I said I have come to have my internet renewed,he said y have u come here???in a very rude manner and then said go to the third floor, I went to the third floor,there was a senior officer sitting over there,I said I have come to have my internet renewed,he shouted at me leave your shoes outside!!! so I went out to take my shoes off, when I came back I said I have to have my internet renewed,he said y have u come here??? I said that person on the second floor told me to come here,he said do you have some specific id??? I said no,he said u want it renewed!!! I said yes, he said go to the second floor,I said I just came from there,he did not respond and started talking to another person about problems in his house!! I came to the second floor again,the babu was still sitting there with 2 friends,I said I went up there but they told me I have to come to you to have my internet renewed,he said he told u that???? then he cracked some joke with a friend of his and told me actually did u see the office near the gate,internet gets renewed over there, so I came down to the same place where the guard stood,I asked is this the place where one gets a internet renewal card??? he said yes!!! I went to the office,there was a lock outside!!!! and I saw an old lady fighting with the guard out there that she was coming to the office for the past 2 weeks to have her phone connection restored!!! I went to the private shop owner then.This is incidence 1.
Now for incidence 2. I had to have my passport made so I went to the passport officer at D.M.'s office, he told me office is closed it opens between 10 and 2 in the morning,i came the next day,he said all papers in order??? I said here are the papers,he checked it and said is this your bank account details??? I said yes,he said go put some money in your account so that I know it's still running!!! so I went back again, I had it done,came back to the office the next day 10.30 sharp, he told me please I am a busy person and started telling someone how he was humiliated at a railway station by female police officers and how bad it is that women go for jobs,I said are my papers in order??? he said can't you see I am busy??? we work from morning till 11 in the night, u guys are always in a hurry, so I stood there, he then turned and said yes papers are in order,and then became quite polite and said listen your work will be done u got to give 200 rupees!!!! I said 200???? he said I have to tell others that u need a passport afterall the system works like that u understand, I said ok knowing that he was trying to imply he wont give me the receipt and throw away my passport form if I did not give him an additional 200 bucks!!!! I had already spent the original amount for the form needed by Govt. of India and this guy was a govt. in himself,he told me to specifically come the next day with 200 bucks or else I wont get my receipt and when I went with 200 bucks he did it what we see on tv corrupt guys doing, asking for money under the table literally!!!then the police came for verfication,one of them seemed half drunk,he looked at the picture in the form,then at me, he said yup the same person,there was another police officer with him,both of them came inside,and though they did not mention any money,one of them said,we need an affidavit in 2 hours that u belong to this house that u r this person, I said but I have already put all the relevant papers with the form??? he said but the form has to go today,I need it today or else your form wouldn't reach,and then they kept staring at me with eagerness,I said can I do it till saturday??? they said ok, I said the form will stay back till then?? they said yes. Now I had the affidavit made that I lived in the same house that I live in and that I am the same person that I am, then I forgot the name of the officer who came, I went and asked another officer,he said thodi suvidha shulk lagti hain?? I said but I don't have any money at the moment,he said ab dekho bhai,agar nahi de sakte to koi problem nahin tumhare upar false case lagaa sakte hain woh officers, passport apne aap stall ho jayega, gosh!!!! so they asked for suvidha shulk of 300 bucks!!! or else they were going to fabricate a false case against me as they threatened me to do so. Now within a week I got a call from the local intelligence officer,he was rather polite and said beta tumhara form aa gaya hain?? I said so u have to come for verification?,he said no u have to come. wierd. I always thought they came to verify but who knows,so I went to their office,he was standing outside,he said chai piyoge? I said nahin uncle and wanted to free myself from this blood thristy scoundrels once and for all. He verified,saw my photographs,saw my details and papers,I signed the papers and then he said those golden words,kitna laayein hon? I said kya? He said arre passport ban raha hain kitna laayein hon? I said 200,he said itna to humare bacchhe har din udaate hain,meri salary isse zyada hain, I said ab aap batao uncle kitna lagega, he said 500. I said mere paas to itne hee hain,he said dekho bhai humara kuuch nahin jaata tum jaise log har din iss office ke chakkar katate hain,ab aaraam se de do,kaam nahi latkega aur kaam rukega bhi nahin. now I had only 300 left at home my parents were out of town and he was going to dump all this effort of mine running to get my passport made, he then said baaki 300 lekar aana tab kaam hoga,300,bhaag to nahin jayoge??? I said ab uncle aapse kya bhaagna,I came back with the 300 he said chai piyoge??? I said no. I said ab to koi verification koi bhaagna nahin, wahin se hoga? he said yes, I said kitna time lega? he said 6 months, I said 6 months!!! form mein tha maximum 3 months minimum 1, he said ab aise hee kaam hota hain,khush hon ki tumhara jaldi ho raha hain jo manaa kerte hain unka isse bhi zyada leta hain!! in fact if you see the cost I bared paying this private govt. within the govt. it was equal to the actual cost of the passport to be made by the govt. of india - 1000 bucks. 1000 to the real govt. 1000 to this private govt. within the system. small incidents not to the magnitude of the scale of corruption in this country but still shows a picture how it operates and you can't run from them,u go to them u step out with your pockets empty!!!! If India shines officers like these make it whine!!!
RE:RE:RE:RE:Politicians
by Vijay Purbhe on Mar 16, 2007 05:07 AM
Why in the hell are you copying your message everywhere? We got your point buddy, let other express their opinions.
Indeed the authors have to be complimented for their thoughtful analysis. However, the crux of these problems would be removal of corruption at all levels, including those at very commanding positions. Many years back the call was for "Garibee Hatao". But now that some of the poverty is slowly going away, the new national call should focus on " GHOOS KO MARO" Our national pastime must refocus on isolating, identifying and public rebuke/legal steps to attack the lowest forms of all types of corruptions- whether it is the Lands records, sales tax ad VAT offices, roadside checks at state boundaries tax offices, ministerial offices, hospitals, health centers. ag-dept BDOs and the vast infrastructure enshrined by the "babudom" of redtapes and utterly corrupt minions of political parties and their bosses. Changing infrastructure as in China may take atleast another decade or more. Meanwhile. there shoudl be concerted national efforts to mobilize the masses to loacte and bring to justice the culprits, and make examples of such bolder steps. This wll be met with lot of resistance from the in-built system. We may have to create a better society from ground up for the sake of future generations.
People call it bottlenecks, bureaucracy or red tape. In bottom line it all comes to money.
India is stupidly investing all its foreign reserve (close to $200 billion) in US treasuries. Which hardly gives you 5% return.
May be a decade back it made sense because of Balance of Payment problems. This problem is no longer applicable.
India should learn from Singapore's experiment of investing the foreign reserve in local infrastructure.
With PPP (Purchase power Parity) giving the strength to the rupee much higher that what it is quoted in exchange rate, It is really really stupid to buy US treasuries with our foreign exchange. In effect we are really giving loan to USA, when need good amount of money for infrastructure.
It is high time that Public administration recognises its responsbilities and gets up to do some work.
I'm saddened to see a total lack of town planning in India. Local developers put in any roads, anywhere they want. I was surprised to see mere 150 feet width given to a highway in MP. Actual ground width is far less !
I've lived in California and Chicago, and we must learn foresight from them - When building roads, they think about the traffic conditions 50, 100 yrs down the line.
Public admin, wake up now.
In Thane where I used to live, we have a 14000 Volt - High voltage Power pole dot in the middle of the road, on a turn ! I'm waiting for a day when the driver of a speeding bus fails to see it.
