I do not follow the argument, for I fail to see the the need for causal relationship/(s) between/among the entrance filter, program grades, post-MBA roles and salaries. Each of these are stage-gated achievements, and the relevance of each yardstick is significantly eliminated after the event has happened.
One could argue for a more holistic approach to the admissions, but not question the quantifiable benchmarks that the CAT/GMAT and the XAT are. I am a graduate of the IIMC, through the GMAT route, and I can safely say that the operating environment the Indian MBAs face require them to be highly numerate and clinically statistical. Given such needs, the filters used are fairly relevant. Regards
I do not follow the argument, for I fail to see the the need for causal relationship/(s) between/among the entrance filter, program grades, post-MBA roles and salaries. Each of these are stage-gated achievements, and the relevance of each yardstick is significantly eliminated after the event has happened.
One could argue for a more holistic approach to the admissions, but not question the quantifiable benchmarks that the CAT/GMAT and the XAT are. I am a graduate of the IIMC, through the GMAT route, and I can safely say that the operating environment the Indian MBAs face require them to be highly numerate and clinically statistical. Given such needs, the filters used are fairly relevant. Regards
Prof Jayaram K Iyer has only shared HIS views that the tests are a farce. He has not cited evidence in support. However, he has raised an important issue. Do Business Schools consider these tests as tests to assess APTITUDE FOR BUSINESS STUDIES? If yes, it would be pertinent to ask them to share with students and guardians how they define such an APTITUDE. What do they consider to be the components - in terms of knowledge, skills etc - which together constitute this APTITUDE. If the Test content and design cannot be correlated with the respective components, it is clear that they do not assess aptitude. In that case, the tests are indeed a farce. And Prof Iyer would be right in recognising that the emperor has no clothes!
Prof Jayaram K Iyer has only shared HIS views that the tests are a farce. He has not cited evidence in support. However, he has raised an important issue. Do Business Schools consider these tests as tests to assess APTITUDE FOR BUSINESS STUDIES? If yes, it would be pertinent to ask them to share with students and guardians how they define such an APTITUDE. What do they consider to be the components - in terms of knowledge, skills etc - which together constitute this APTITUDE. If the Test content and design cannot be correlated with the respective components, it is clear that they do not assess aptitude. In that case, the tests are indeed a farce. And Prof Iyer would be right in recognising that the emperor has no clothes!
Re: Management Entrance Tests : A Big Farce
by Jayaram Iyer on Feb 12, 2010 04:51 PM
Yes these are my views. I ardently hope the business schools test only the aptitude for management studies and nothing else. In 1985, Harvard Business School stopped using GMAT scores for admission for they found performance of the candidates with and without the GMAT criteria were the same. May be success in the program depends a lot on intangibles such as motivation, perseverance, quality of past work experience etc. Of course, I would do fine with some new clothes!
Prof Jayaram K Iyer has only shared HIS views that the tests are a farce. He has not cited evidence in support. However, he has raised an important issue. Do Business Schools consider these tests as tests to assess APTITUDE FOR BUSINESS STUDIES? If yes, it would be pertinent to ask them to share with students and guardians how they define such an APTITUDE. What do they consider to be the components - in terms of knowledge, skills etc - which together constitute this APTITUDE. If the Test content and design cannot be correlated with the respective components, it is clear that they do not assess aptitude. In that case, the tests are indeed a farce. And Prof Iyer would be right in recognising that the emperor has no clothes!
Prof Jayaram K Iyer has only shared HIS views that the tests are a farce. He has not cited evidence in support. However, he has raised an important issue. Do Business Schools consider these tests as tests to assess APTITUDE FOR BUSINESS STUDIES? If yes, it would be pertinent to ask them to share with students and guardians how they define such an APTITUDE. What do they consider to be the components - in terms of knowledge, skills etc - which together constitute this APTITUDE. If the Test content and design cannot be correlated with the respective components, it is clear that they do not assess aptitude. In that case, the tests are indeed a farce. And Prof Iyer would be right in recognising that the emperor has no clothes!
1. Every college shall have separate MBA entrance exam or region/state wise entrance exam 2. Eligibility shall be minimum of 5 years work experience Adequate educational qualification (No freshers intake); Work experience shall be (i) Employer reputation and performance (ii) Applicant’s position, role, responsibility and performance (Self appraisal – not to insist that employer to give this or certify)etc that would give comprehensive profile of the Applicant 3. Entrance test based on cracking case studies on management aspects and not on objective/numerical ability etc. May be to top it and validate case study based scoring usual (as is presently done) entrance test mode can be added as second paper which means (implication of this method) entrance test will be in two parts and duration could be in two sessions on one day or in two days. 4. The final result will be those who have meaningful scores (well correlated) of two parts of entrance test would be considered for ranking. 5. Most important is to have fresh and immediate MBAs, a First stage MBA (Present MBA course run by all universities as it is so that there will be no shortage for MBAs/MBA studied managers at any point of time) could be adopted and those who wish premium MBA can go for it after 5 yrs exp as stated in point 2.
Re: Management entrance tests: A big farce
by aamir tariq on Feb 11, 2010 03:38 PM
Everyone has a right to study, so their should be a no-rejection criteria everywhere. Teach India - all Indian not the creme.
Join IIPM - which can reject a student only in extreme/rare cases.
Re: Management entrance tests: A big farce
by varun on Feb 11, 2010 12:53 PM
I Competely agree......This fresher MBA Guys Has Spoiled the work Culture in india
Re: Management entrance tests: A big farce
by aamir tariq on Feb 11, 2010 03:35 PM
You had 5 years of experience doesnt mean that everyone should have that...
People do MBA to learn entrepreneurial skills and to earn good of-course. Some people do MBA after engineering, hotel mgt, Btech, etc. And if they get 5 yrs of experience after their graduation then it will go waste dude. Do you think these things from your mind/ from somewhere else.
Everyone is this country has a right to live and to let others live. If you didnt get admission in a top B-school even after having 5 yrs of work experience, then what is your personality dude, there are people far more superior to you. Gaining experience doesnt mean that learnt things out of the job you did. First give 100% to what you do and then talk.
*You word above is used for all individuals who have the same thoughts about the above comment.
Re: Re: Management entrance tests: A big farce
by sathyam guda on Feb 11, 2010 04:34 PM
Every one can do MBA. There are may be thousands of MBA colleges (in private sector – al most every town has MBA college) these days. They can continue as they are now and also can plan to reach better and better standards. If one wants MBA from these colleges it is a cake walk only thing may be affordability to pay say Rs.25000/ a year fees. But if one wants to do MBA from institutions like IIM or XLRI/Jamna lal Bajaj etc they are few such MBA colleges/institutions to cater to the wish of all those lakhs passing out graduation. Here the question of selection and that too a right way of selecting a right candidate/applicant. If selection is for say 1000 seats and applicants are one million there is no way but to adopt some system of selection. Why IIMs etc – even getting MBA seat in MBA College directly run by university / University campus college is not simple joke, applicant has to face competition and that completion is rejection based and not selection based. If just an MBA is a goal and confident that any MBA will teach entrepreneurial skills best way why to worry. Present day private colleges are enough and if there is demand pvt sector will and can add thousands of seats overnight .
Re: Re: Management entrance tests: A big farce
by sathyam guda on Feb 11, 2010 04:34 PM
Every one can do MBA. There are may be thousands of MBA colleges (in private sector – al most every town has MBA college) these days. They can continue as they are now and also can plan to reach better and better standards. If one wants MBA from these colleges it is a cake walk only thing may be affordability to pay say Rs.25000/ a year fees. But if one wants to do MBA from institutions like IIM or XLRI/Jamna lal Bajaj etc they are few such MBA colleges/institutions to cater to the wish of all those lakhs passing out graduation. Here the question of selection and that too a right way of selecting a right candidate/applicant. If selection is for say 1000 seats and applicants are one million there is no way but to adopt some system of selection. Why IIMs etc – even getting MBA seat in MBA College directly run by university / University campus college is not simple joke, applicant has to face competition and that completion is rejection based and not selection based. If just an MBA is a goal and confident that any MBA will teach entrepreneurial skills best way why to worry. Present day private colleges are enough and if there is demand pvt sector will and can add thousands of seats overnight .
1. Every college shall have separate MBA entrance exam or region/state wise entrance exam 2. Eligibility shall be minimum of 5 years work experience Adequate educational qualification (No freshers intake); Work experience shall be (i) Employer reputation and performance (ii) Applicant’s position, role, responsibility and performance (Self appraisal – not to insist that employer to give this or certify)etc that would give comprehensive profile of the Applicant 3. Entrance test based on cracking case studies on management aspects and not on objective/numerical ability etc. May be to top it and validate case study based scoring usual (as is presently done) entrance test mode can be added as second paper which means (implication of this method) entrance test will be in two parts and duration could be in two sessions on one day or in two days. 4. The final result will be those who have meaningful scores (well correlated) of two parts of entrance test would be considered for ranking. 5. Most important is to have fresh and immediate MBAs, a First stage MBA (Present MBA course run by all universities as it is so that there will be no shortage for MBAs/MBA studied managers at any point of time) could be adopted and those who wish premium MBA can go for it after 5 yrs exp as stated in point 2.
Wen sayin they missed out 5 Nobels u shud first now tat...except the recent venkat raman and a couple...none have applied for it...since thr wernt tat big/didnt even exist during thr times
secondly....u r giving too much credit to Nobels and prices....look at the world....IIT's did contribute a lot....Many firms have proudly been saying IITians had a major role in constructing their organization
Its like expecting sachin to win all matches for India
nyways i do agree tat they can do lot more...( so does sachin...:p) probably they wud....in the next 20 yrs
Getting admission in LIBA is a big lottery. Lat year a lot of students had been invited for GDs and PIS. However most of them were eliminated after the GD itself. If they think that the entrance tests are a farce what about GDs where many are unfortunate to get a very good group of spaekers, get an unknown topic etc. They are completely non transparent in their selection and just collect money by asking a large no of candidates to turn up for the GD/PI process. Shame on you LIBA.
Re: LIBA is a lottery
by businessworld on Feb 11, 2010 02:43 PM
in LIBA-90% seats are reserved for Catholics, rest 10% under Management Quota. Do u know that candidates are asked to take XAT for admission to LIBA? The truth is you need not even but the XAT form for admission to LIBA, if you are \\\"connected\\\"
Re: LIBA is a lottery
by businessworld on Feb 11, 2010 02:42 PM
in LIBA-90% seats are reserved for Catholics, rest 10% under Management Quota. Do u know that candidates are asked to take XAT for admission to LIBA? The truth is you need not even but the XAT form for admission to LIBA, if you are "connected"
Re: LIBA is a lottery
by businessworld on Feb 11, 2010 02:42 PM
in LIBA-90% seats are reserved for Catholics, rest 10% under Management Quota. Do u know that candidates are asked to take XAT for admission to LIBA? The truth is you need not even but the XAT form for admission to LIBA, if you are "connected"
