Showing Musl1ims,Chr1st1ans, Minority Communities AND Pakistan as an excuse, BJP is trying to polarize Hindus Votes VERSUS Rest of Communities Votes.
Post Babri, BJP did not FORESEE that propagating Hinduism will intrinsically IGNITE Casteism in India.
As per Mandal Commission, 54% Indians are BCs and 25% SC/STs. And these Communities will eventually INSULATE themselves from BJP's Hinduism.
Hence BC/SC/ST leaders like Lalu, Mulayam, Paswan, and Mayawati, Uma Bharti have emerged. Kumaraswamy, Naveen Patnaik, Nitish Kumar, Chauhan are also deserting BJP.
If BJP really wants to WIN in future elections they need to come up with a better strategy than Congress party's Reservations (Social hierarchies != Economical hierarchies) to BC/SC/ST/Minority Communities.
* There is NO Hinduism **till** 85% of all registered marriages in India are inter-caste. * Till then the truth is there are only Castes and NO Hindus in India.
Now forget about BJP's lose and Congress gain, I am very sorry for Mr Advani because he is not succeeded. What I think is if UPA extend his hand to NDA and offer a Deputy PM to Mr. Advani and another 2 Ministerial position to people like Mr. Arun Jaitely and Sushma Swaraj, it will be better environmnet in the Parliment and not much noise and shouting or infighting for hours and hours so can talk about the development progress and prosparity of country. What you think friends and foes ?
Re: Politics
by kumar on May 24, 2009 05:09 PM
BJP will be fininished as LEFT. LALU, SP, as UPA Will prove BJP WRONG WITH STRONG MEDIA CONNECTIONS, FALSE PROPAGANDA, INSULTING BY ANCHOR PERSONS PAID BY UPA
dear friend, from what religion you are from what caste you are for which parenst you are born listen one thing keep your mind cool take the advise of rss do yoga are else you will committ suicide thinking you are under the rule of sonia and italian or english or muslim or parties. now listen if you are married i feel pity for your wife & kids who bear you all the time. so be quiet think about humanity think about life happiness co existence and think what nature ahs given ok this help you in getting you life at better prospects if you are less educated pursue more education and increase ur abilities to prosper in your career nad personal life. best regards and wish you follow a good path
Re: nachiket ashok
by Mahavir on May 23, 2009 09:30 PM
Mohammed, The words like 'humanity', 'life happiness', 'co existence' are in contradiction to your existence.
Re: Re: nachiket ashok
by Imran on May 24, 2009 12:23 AM
Dont forget Gujarat the same applies to you also. Its people like u who spread communalism. Stop hatred & communalism and see India will be better place to Live Jai Hind
Re: nachiket ashok
by rohit sharma on May 23, 2009 05:02 PM
nice thoughts .. i wish it could be made the motto of whole world..Islamic or christain or jews all...
Let me prove it how? BJP pulled 18% of all votes. 50% didnt vote. That means in actual fact only 9% of eligible voters opted for BJP. Now imagine BJP couldnt attract 91% of Indian voters, who simply prefered to ignore it!!!!
Politicians are the policy makers of a country.In the ancient time politicians or monarch were treated as God's agent.But now-a-days the politicians instead of making a country ,destroy a country. After winning the election they forget their commitment to the public and they become busy to fulfill their own interest within the five yrs time.Most of the leaders of every political party are self-centred, corrupt and many have criminal backgrounds. They donot fulfill their promises they made before election. All their decisions are indirectly motivated by the vote-bank. If a public servant does anything wrong he used to be punished by termination or suspension from his job.But the politicians(public servant) can not be punished.There should be a system of re-call in our country by which a corrupt politician or a minister who is failed to fulfil the aspiration of the people can be called back from his post.But here we have to wait for next election only and there we can show our grievance. At the same time there should be a system of option by which the voters can not caste their vote for any candidate if none is suitable and if suchvoting percentage excede more than 25% of the total casting vote then in that constituency there can be re-poll. So the educated Indian citizen please wake-up and do your best so that we can get clean politicians who will work for the welfare of everybody.
After defeat instead of a true introspection you have also come up with faulty theories and blaming others for the BJP defeat.
An ardent BJP supporter has written the reasons behind BJP defeat in LKA site, which are very true. Not like Mr. Vijay who is blaming others.
As an ardent BJP supporter, I am shocked by the margin of defeat. Many of us have waited 5 long years hoping for a BJP victory... and here we are waiting for 5 more years. But one must admit, there were good reasons why we lost. These are my top 10 (not in any particular order):
1. Disconnect with urban middle class
The Bharatiya Janata Party was once the darling of the educated urban middle class. Today, neither the BJP nor the NDA won in any of the following important cities: Chennai, Hyderabad, Mumbai, New Delhi, Pune, Mysore, Thiruvananthapuram, Chandigarh, Kolkata, etc just to name a few. In many of these constituencies they were not even second. Mumbai and Delhi alone make up 13 seats. The urban middle class cares about jobs, security and involvement of young leaders. They like a constructive opposition – not one that opposes for the sake of opposing. For instance, the urban voters seemed to broadly support the nuclear deal with the US. The BJP could have joined hands with Congress on the issue, helped fine tune the negotiations and thereby take partial credit for the deal. Instead, they did not explain in layman’s terms why they were opposed to it in the first place.
Re: Mr. Vijay !!!
by Kabeera Speaking on May 23, 2009 04:17 PM
On a different note, voters, especially the urban ones, do not subscribe to religious extremism. While the BJP itself may not have engaged in extremism, may other groups like Bajrang Dal or Ram Sena did. They were not a part of the BJP – but the people thought they were and BJP did little to correct the perception. This was fatal. The lack of young leaders was another area that alienated the urban voters.
BJP’s core vote bank – the urban middle class no longer resonates with the party.
2. Appearing communal
In politics, being correct is not adequate - it is all about appearing to be correct. In Kandhamal and Mangalore, the BJP was not directly involved in the violence. Publicly the party condemned the violence. Yet some leaders spoke in two voices – and tried to justify the happenings in some manner. What they needed to do is to unanimously condemn violence – no questions. They could have debated it or brought it up in parliament. The violence by VHP or Bajarang Dal was clearly unacceptable.
When Varun Gandhi made his alleged hate speech, the BJP initially condemned it. Then, over a period of time it looked like they were confused about what they should do. Finally towards the end, some leaders were defending Varun. What a costly mistake! They should have announced instead that Varun has claimed that the tapes were fabricated and that he would approach the court to look into the matter. However, until the issue has been resolved, Varun will not contest the elections on a
Re: Re: Mr. Vijay !!!
by kumar on May 24, 2009 05:16 PM
BJP VOTE BANK is INDIA not PERSONS WHO ARE SOLD FOR BOTTLE BJP should keep its core issues as part of ideology and concentrate more on current issues and development by reaching out to the people. BJP should shun the foreign owned media that always work for the foreign owned Congress and portray the BJP in a poor light on every issue where the BJP may not have any hand. BJP should start their own media venture to put the nationalist view in correct perspective. The foreign funded media is basically against the Hindus and Indian nationalism and hence will try to denigrate both as much as possible. People of India will realize this fact sooner or later and the BJP will have to educate the masses thru mass movement on core issues affecting the people. The BJP has to come out on the street for people's issues in future instead of making statements on not so friendly foreign owned media.
Re: Re: Mr. Vijay !!!
by Kabeera Speaking on May 23, 2009 04:18 PM
Varun will not contest the elections on a BJP ticket. Would that not have taken the ammunition off the congress? Varun may have won his seat, but he surely cost the BJP votes in several other places. Contrast this with what the Congress did when Sikhs protested against Jagdish Tytler. They played safe and asked him to step down. It made them appear more ethical.
One fails to understand what the BJP hoped to gain by supporting Varun. The hardline-Hindu voters would have voted for them anyway regardless of BJP’s stand. On the other hand, the moderate voters, especially the younger generation, probably got turned off by this. The minorities, of course, consolidated behind the congress.
The BJP has to realize that being pro-Hindu is one thing, but appearing to be anti-minority is a whole different story.
3. Infighting within the party
In the run up to the elections, there were so many incidents of one BJP member taking potshots at another. Shekawat vs Advani, Jaitley vs Sudhanshu Mittal, Vasundhara Raje had problems in Rajasthan, Gopinath Munde was unhappy in Maharashtra, Yediurappa had dissidents in Karnataka, Kalyan Singh joined SP. Such incidents have gone on for too long. Probably this was a price to pay for having internal democracy.
People vote for leaders. When leaders rebel, voters follow. The BJP had to either mollify the rebels or trounce them the way Modi did. Modi is going through a rare phase where he is in perfect sync with his voters.
Re: Re: Re: Mr. Vijay !!!
by kumar on May 24, 2009 05:22 PM
As per Kabeera Speaking
THERE IS NO NEED OF BJP, lt anti social elements, Jehadis and Xtian missionary rule the country. congress always pampering muslim votebank to ensure win election and stick to power and minority appeasement on the cost of mejority. Divide mejority on sc st obc dalit and pampre minorities with religion based reservation,15% special package from tax payers money, increase haj subsidies, separate urdu channel on govt cost, islmic banking/insurance, iterest free loans, protecting and supporting jighadies, mullas isi agents, all illegal immigants got voter id, job under minority tag. promote religious conversion to create new vote bank of dalit muslim & dalit xians. TO hell with MAJORITY
Re: Re: Re: Mr. Vijay !!!
by Kabeera Speaking on May 23, 2009 04:20 PM
4. Excessive dependence on Narendra Modi
Modi has proved to be an efficient administrator, a good orator and is seen to be personally incorruptible. No doubt he is popular in Gujarat. But the party should have realized that his appeal outside Gujarat is quite limited. Moreover, he is unacceptable to many NDA allies. Projecting Modi as a future PM even as the present election was on was a serious mistake. Some BJP leaders thought Modi’s no-nonsense approach in Gujarat would extrapolate into the rest of the country. They were wrong. Modi campaigned far and wide and drew crowds, but that did not translate into seats. In Uttar Pradesh, he campaigned in 30 constituencies of which the BJP only won 3. Why did this happen? The reason probably was that the combination of Advani plus Modi appeared to be very hardline. Advani needed several moderate campaign partners who enjoyed mass appeal. BJP should have groomed such leaders in the last five years. Stop relying on individuals. At the end of the day a Modi is not a Gandhi. At least not until he has successfully buried the ghosts of Godhra.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Mr. Vijay !!!
by Kabeera Speaking on May 23, 2009 04:21 PM
5. Inability to suggest solutions for everyday issues
When Mumbai was attacked, BJP struck back heavily on the government. The people thought it was opportunistic politics. Instead, the BJP should have expressed solidarity with the government at least for a few days and then gradually explained how they would handle the situation better if voted to power. The people instead witnessed a frustrating blame game. So much so, they simply became indifferent. BJP banked on people to remember the good governance of Vajpayee and contrast it with a weak Manmohan. The voters did not remember the terror attacks barely 5 months after it happened. How would they remember Vajpayee 5 years later? Besides, we had many first time voters and there is no way BJP could count on them to vote based on how Vajpayee fared. The BJP had to point out the weaknesses of the present government instead of mounting personal attacks on the Prime Minister.
Urban voters were aware that the present economic conditions were not isolated to India. They had seen on TV how India was faring relatively better than most western countries. The only way BJP could have made a point was by explaining what they are going to do that would be so different. It was not enough to explain the party’s grand plans in the party manifesto which no one except journalists read.
People want solutions - not questions. The voters already knew what the questions were!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mr. Vijay !!!
by Kabeera Speaking on May 23, 2009 04:21 PM
7. Negative campaigning
The BJP was seen to have run an increasingly negative campaign. Actually they ran an Obama-like campaign. Just like Obama blamed Bush for all the ills of the country, BJP blamed Manmohan. But there was one fundamental difference. Manmohan himself was seen to an honest person. His government may not have done anything extraordinary in the last 5 years. He, however, personally stayed a few inches above the rest. Bush on the other hand was suffering from one of the worst approval ratings ever. When Obama attacked Bush, it struck a chord with the voters. The same was not true with attacking Manmohan. The congress went negative too, however the BJP began it. Clearly, the voters forgave or may be even supported the Congress for responding back. The moral of the story is that the electorate appreciate progressive and a positive campaign.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mr. Vijay !!!
by kumar on May 24, 2009 05:27 PM
25,000 hindus were killed in Punjab under Congress rule before Operation Blue star.
Then 10,000 sikhs killed by Cogressman after death of Indira.. Why No one is punished till date by Congress??
Mulayam having CBI cases for assetts over 100 crore awaits decision in court
Lalu in Fodder Scam for over 250 crore is waiting decision of CBI court
Mayawati waiting CBI court decision on Taj Corridor annexation
This parties supported Congress and send letters to UPA to SAVE their skin
Re: Mr. Vijay !!!
by Kabeera Speaking on May 23, 2009 04:23 PM
9. Appearing confused about their main issue
What was Obama’s main issue in the US election? The economy. This is what mattered to the voters the most – not Iraq! What mattered to the Indian voter the most? There were many – terrorism, infrastructure, farmer suicides to name a few. The BJP should have focused on some of these key issues and explained to the people how they had solutions for all of these. Instead they had to spend 70% of the TV time taking about Varun Gandhi, Ram Sene, Orissa riots or Gujarat riots. BJP, the opposition party, were pushed to the weak position of defending themselves most of the time.
There was no sting in the campaign. Both Narasimha Rao and Vajpayee provided better governance and still lost! It clearly proves that the present government won because of the opposition's inexplicable campaign strategies.
BJP needed a rude awakening and they got one. It is time to wipe the tears away, stand up and do things differently. Doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results is sheer insanity.
Re: Re: Mr. Vijay !!!
by kumar on May 24, 2009 05:30 PM
BJP is MEDIA CREATED MONSTER BY CONGRESS TO WIN, BJP IS NOT ANTI MUSLIMS OR XTIANS BUT AGAINST JEHADI ( bomb blasters) and MISSIONARIES ( conversions) because BJP LOVE INDIA .
CONGRESS WINS BY DIVIDING INDIA, HINDUS AGAINST MUSLIM/ XTIANS , and TELLING HINDUS " TALIBAN IS COMING" " JUST 2 HOURS AWAY TALIBAN"
So they both vote Congress out of fear and forget failures of Congress development issue.
Re: Mr. Vijay !!!
by Kabeera Speaking on May 23, 2009 04:22 PM
8. Not taking the moral high ground
“Clothes maketh the man”. BJP has clearly underestimated now much opinions count. If Varun Gandhi made a hate speech, he had to be shown the door. If Ram Sena attacked women, they had to be punished. If someone in Orissa attacked nuns, they had to be tracked down and sent to jail. No doubt that the BJP was not directly involved in any of these incidents, but by not taking the moral high ground, by not publicly issuing strong statements against these, they appeared to have lost their morality. They should have taken a tough stand against candidates with criminal backgrounds. That the Congress also had a large number of such candidates is not an excuse. After all the BJP claimed to be a party with a difference – what happened to that claim? I can’t stress how important it is to appear sincere. The BJP has to learn this important lesson.
Tarun Vijaya, you like BJP, have failed to realise that India is a secular not bacause of minorites want it to be...rather its secular because Majority of Hindus dont want to mix religion with politics.
Let me prove it how? BJP pulled 18% of all votes. 50% didnt vote. That means in actual fact only 9% of eligible voters opted for BJP. Now imagine BJP couldnt attract 91% of Indian voters, who simply prefered to ignore it!!!!
Now comming back to your points. Why should Afzal guru and kasab be hanged and Purohit & Sadhvi be spared. As a true Indian we should ask for hanging them all!! And Amarnath Land issue arose in 2008 so why and how was it peaceful all those previous years!!! Why did you forget to mention Kandhamal which turned out to be the graveyard of BJP in Orissa? As a true Indian you have to believe in mutual respect and harmony among all religions. You should thank Muslims for not allowing a corrupt Mayawati to become prime minister or a "Dalal" Amar Singh becomming a king maker! Left were also dumped. By all means it seems Muslims have ignored their natural leaders voted for developement. Nitish Kumar of NDA is just a Narendra Modi without Godhra riots....and Muslims have voted for him instead of Lallu!! Hence you Tarun Vijay need to come out of your prejudices and stop supporting BJP till it corrects itself. First and foremost Modi must offer an appology which he has so far ignored. It shows that Modi's arrogance is larger than India! And BJP endorses that view!
Re: What you failed to realise?
by Mahavir on May 23, 2009 09:42 PM
John - on your long sermon to Tarun Vijay. Pl. tell me whats wrong in the BJP stand on abrogaing article 370, opposed by UPA? Pl. tell me why Kashmiri Pundits status is not being taken on equal footing with other minorities by UPA? Pl. tell us why UPA introduced reservation based on relegion rather than economic status? Why Modi should offer an apology for Godhra train burning by particlar community followed by riots? Has modi been chargesheeted let alone prove guilty?
Re: What you failed to realise?
by kumar on May 24, 2009 05:33 PM
Congratulate UPA, 50% did not vote as they know nthing is going to happen,
~ 3 out of 10 voted for Congress
~ this means 15 out of 100 voted for Congress
~ 15 who voted are Drunkards you got Whisky, minority who are headless chickens, dread of 10 PM candidates who had only 10-20 MPS was a danger which prompted people to vote for a 125 years old party to try for a change.
Let's see now what congiees do. After all a it requires only SPRING to come to find out who is a cuckoo and who is a crow.
After any countrymen who are poor get anything write here on this thread.
I know all the hard earned money of India is going to Foreigners and to Swiss accounts by friends of Sonia and Manmohan through Share business who pay no Tax in INDIA.
Re: What you failed to realise?
by Mahavir on May 23, 2009 09:45 PM
John - on your long sermon to Tarun Vijay. Pl. tell me whats wrong in the BJP stand on abrogaing article 370, opposed by UPA? Pl. tell me why Kashmiri Pundits status is not being taken on equal footing with other minorities by UPA? Pl. tell us why UPA introduced reservation based on relegion rather than economic status? Why Modi should offer an apology for Godhra train burning by particlar community followed by riots? Has modi been chargesheeted let alone prove guilty? Why killing of Laxminand Saraswati is ignored by media just like burning alive of 59 hindus in train? The only truth you said is that India is secular because of Hindus.
Re: What you failed to realise?
by Mahavir on May 23, 2009 09:46 PM
John - on your long sermon to Tarun Vijay. Pl. tell me whats wrong in the BJP stand on abrogaing article 370, opposed by UPA? Pl. tell me why Kashmiri Pundits status is not being taken on equal footing with other minorities by UPA? Pl. tell us why UPA introduced reservation based on relegion rather than economic status? Why Modi should offer an apology for Godhra train burning by particlar community followed by riots? Has modi been chargesheeted let alone prove guilty? Why killing of Laxminand Saraswati is ignored by media just like burning alive of 59 hindus in train? The only truth you said is that India is secular because of Hindus.
Tarun's statement 'On the other hand the Congress, whatever they believed in, they delivered.' needs further thought and clarification. Who exactly were those who were critical about it?
Referring the long list thereafter of what the Congress stood for despite opposition, it must be pointed out that the opposition was only from the communalists living is the past, trying to justify present atrocities for past and long gone by injustices, working on a perpetual state of hate against minorities and weaker sections as seen further by how joyfully the actions and sick statements from Varun Gandhi and Narendra Modi were supported and egged on.
It is really ridiculous to assume that it was India and the Hindus that had a grouse against what the Congress were doing when it was only the communalists hell bent on getting back into power to continue their perfidious state sponsored Talibanisation of India as they have now been doing in Karnataka in general and Mangalore in particular.
the NDA came into power with the BJP getting only 25% votes but Tarun has issues if the cong gets 28% and comes to power. Both parties made claims of what kind of a victory it was/is.. The issue of the Kashmiri Hindus - Is being fought by the Govt.of I. Has the BJP got a solution for this other than war ? or rant on it for political gains ? Why wud a voter in TN bring a party into power who is worried abt Kashmiri's but not abt them ?
Or demanding revocation of POTA and stringent measures against terrorists? - Let the records speak for themselves. Better to solve the problem of terrorism than revoke laws..
Amarnath and Ramsetu - Is Amarnath as relevant to a hindu in TN as is to a hindu in Punjab ?
Was opposing Raj wrong? - Who opposed Raj ? Lalu, Nitish and Co. Not the BJP.
They were responsible for Pokaran-II. Was that against the national interest? - Thiink abt it against the back drop of those responsible for Pokhran I and the likelihood of there never being a war where we hv to use a nuke, and ofcourse there being a need to test a nuke.
forget 1984, but remember Gujarat. - Are sikhs being treated the same way as a muslim ?
The nationalists wanted Article 370 to go and Kashmir fully integrated with the rest of India. Was that against national integration? - Is BJP the sole upholder of national integration ? So far, the nation hasnt disintegrated.
Re: shallow waters
by ASIM MEHTANI on May 23, 2009 04:14 PM
1. Kashmir Issue : NDA was for 6 yrs. and it is not enough period to sort out the issue, whereas Congress had a more that 4 decades of ruling single handley, but still the problem persists. 2. Revocation of POTA : Congress scrabed Pota on a plea that existing laws are enough, bit after 26/11, new law was made, contradicting itself. 3. Amarnath and Ramsethu : It is a national issue, India is a nation, therefore, it should be relevant to all nationalists. 4.Was oppoisng Raj wrong : No, it was not wrong. BJP did commit the mistake. 5. Pokaran-II : It was tested, because to maintain the equilibrium of security scenerio. Such weapons always restrict the war, and even give the good impact on pscycology. 6. forget 1984, but remember Gujarat. BJP also loves Muslim. Dr. Kalam was made the President of India by NDA only. 7.The nationalists wanted Article 370 to go and Kashmir fully integrated with the rest of India. Was that against national integration? : Yes the nation is not disintegrated, but there is a sense of discrimination.
