After the elections are over and the results are announced will there be the proverbial "dudh ka dudh aur pani ka pani". What is milk and what is water will be known only after the election results are announced. The Sangh Parivar is known for only accepting their own logic and more often than not that it not what the man in the streets wants.
In the current mode it is only be termed as propoganda - an encouragement for the rank and file to continue their efforts.
Re: Muslms & christans are terrorsts
by Fluffy Kumar on May 05, 2009 04:10 AM
"Truth will set you free"- and this applies to the Indian converts. Please, Indian converts, do some serious introspection as to the root cause of recent conflicts between Hindus1 and the church. That is all we are asking.
When you do so, it becomes apparent the root cause of unease with the church is rampant conversions at rural level, putting up crosses on every high hill (around Tiru pathi district), publishing really bad, really po rnogr aphic literature on Hindu Gods and distributing them to unsuspecting Hindus1, etc. This is the root cause. Why not admit that the conversion tactics have become really ugly?
Re: Re: Muslms & christans are terrorsts
by Gopal Krishnaiah on May 09, 2009 02:31 PM
Why are you so upset with conversion of religion? If someone wants to change his/her religion why should anyone else bother? People look for change when they are dissatisfied with the existing dispensation .Terrorism has no religion.There are terrorists who for namesake may be Christians,Hindus,Muslims,Sikhs or Buddhists.It would be wrong to call LTTE or Maoists or RSS as Hindu terrorists.Likewise Kahmiri jihadists or Al Qaida cadres should not be called Muslim terrorists.A true Muslim or a Hindu will never terrorise another person.
Re: Re: Re: Muslms & christans are terrorsts
by MD SALAUDDIN on Mar 04, 2011 02:00 AM
i have jst no word 4 u....bro.... gr8... India is great....and remain great just for the people like you....
Re: Re: Re: Muslms & christans are terrorsts
by MD SALAUDDIN on Mar 04, 2011 02:00 AM
i have jst no word 4 u....bro.... gr8... India is great....and remain great just for the people like you....
Re: Re: Re: Muslms & christans are terrorsts
by MD SALAUDDIN on Mar 04, 2011 02:27 AM
i have jst no word 4 u....bro.... gr8... India is great....and remain great just for the people like you....
Dr. Abraham T.Kovoor, world renowned Rationalist had said "The avowed policy of the Missionaries any where in the world was to instil in the minds of the converts a kind of alienation towards thier native land and culture".
I can only add that those who converted the natives of our Country into Chriistianity and 1slam have achieved enormous success in their endeavour.
Re: Dr. Abraham T.Kovoor on converts
by Fluffy Kumar on May 05, 2009 04:15 AM | Hide message
JGN- Most enlightened people such as you and myzelf and scores of well-educated white in the West have realized that spirituality is quite distinct from fundamentalistic, monotheistic religions, and many ae abandoning the church in USA- I see that everyday in the North-east USA as evidenced by church closings (lack of attendance). Now, I find it ironic that our converted rice bags are now the keepers of the christian faith, having been converted at the end of a sword (Goan Hindus1 inquisition), or by devious means.
Any religion that offers few worldly things to convert- is there any depth to that religion?
Re: Re: Dr. Abraham T.Kovoor on converts
by dil jo on May 05, 2009 07:54 AM
Im not posting this to please anyone and a its not a chest beating,Hindu brothers and sisters has to know whos converting and whos not converting,there are lot of christian groups who takes hinduism as their culture,search in the history,the ancient orthodox christians of india fought with the british to stick to their indian culture and not converting to roman catholics.Fluffy u used to mention rice bag converts,lemme ask u one thing ,if someone can convert u with a bag of rice,whats u'r faith in u'r orginal religion????if i blve truly and strongly in a religion ,how can someone convert me with a bag of rice????well rediff has got enough hits on this topic,so no point in wasting time anymore,JGN bro u seems like the moderator ,r u workin in rediff??I GOTTA forward tday,
"Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalized, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism."
Re: Re: Re: Dr. Abraham T.Kovoor on converts
by Tulika Chatterjee on May 05, 2009 09:20 AM
dil jo, your questions just confirm what I have observed for the last 10 years of my life - ever since I was old enough to take my own decisions. The only people who convert are - the ones who are poor, downtrodden, neglected, and think conversion would put them in a better position, the ones who need free education (this is very rampant in tribal areas), or the ones who do not have much knowledge about Hnduism and ready to believe that one religion can be better than the other. I myself had a lot of doubts about my own religion, caste system being one of it, till I found that even Chrstians have castes system. Some are Brahmins who consider themselves in a higher position than others. The sad part is when they try to convert using false claims when similar issues can be pointed out in their religion too. Hnduism is so vast, even I dont know everything about it, although I try to read and learn as much as I can. It's very easy to pick on a few things and harp on them, and that's what is done by most people.
The third and last scenario is when people convert to get married to Chrstians, which is purely a personal matter and hence I wont criticise it.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dr. Abraham T.Kovoor on converts
by Tulika Chatterjee on May 05, 2009 09:20 AM
Lastly, I would agree a hundred times than Dalits and other backward castes have been deprived for years. This is a big sin, but arent we trying to make up for it with our reservations? Everything else would lie solely on us as individuals, to erase it completely. But how many of us do that? Pointing fingers at political parties or a religion as a whole, is not going to solve any problem.
The problem with conversion is the arrogance of those who think they have a right to convert others and particularly so when they refer to UN declarations as a support. Claiming the right to seek out the other for conversion is nothing else but turning the other into an object for my design. It is meeting the other as an object, not interested in the encounter and where it might take us.
There will always be people who, for various reasons, will want to break out and look for other pastures. One cannot erect walls high enough to prevent them from leaving. The wall isn't built that will hinder their flight. It is better to let them leave without clipping their wings. We live in a world where encounters and dialogues will lead some to seek other ways than the ones just travelled. This is the right that UN declarations talk about and this is the right of and in each of our religious traditions - Swedish theologian Hans Ucko (I am also of the same opinion - Read complete article on Rediff itself)
Re: Many feel conversion is not the church's business
by Fluffy Kumar on May 05, 2009 04:03 AM | Hide message
The 'conversionists' (missionaries) are big time drug addicts, boozers and womanizers. They fall to the bottom, and then realize they need a cause to live like a human- that is how they find jesus. These people are called "Bron Again". And to have a cause for their miserable meaningless lives, they start preaching jesus and go to developing countries to convert. As per the bible, you get positive points added to your karma, with every conversion.
The whole thing is a such a sham. Anyone with some brains in 21st century will realize all religions are man-made, and God does not need a religion to belong to. Spirituality is what matters, and at the end of the day, keeping our culture is what matters- that is our only inheritance, something that we pass on to the kids, not a white-man's culture.
Would you call the handsome guy next door fatherr if your fatherr is not handsome? Or would you sell your motherr to satisfy your hunger?? If you are not satisfied with your Re1igion, fight the system from within. That is what great social reforms had done. Even Ms. Mayawati is doing the same.
Re: @ arjun
by Devadatta Bhaumik on May 04, 2009 09:00 PM
JGN, This question you should ask yourself. The fact is you can change your thinking, your ideology, your religion... but you cannot change your mother or father. It is evident to all sensible people.
By raising a question like this you reveal your innerself which has not understod what a mother and father means, biologically, etymologically, and spiritually. You cannot exchange or change them, but you can change your religion if you want to, it is fully within your freedom as a human being. It is a shame you do not know this. This is the effect of crude ideologies that corrupt your humanism, mind.
Or, if you really respect your father/ mother, then your poser is based on a false premise.
Re: Re: @ arjun
by JGN on May 04, 2009 09:13 PM
I am not against any one changing his Re1igion out of his free-will. I am only against the Missionaries claiming that as their "Right" and bef00ling the tribals/dalits in the name of non-existent g0ds and heaven.
Re: Re: Re: @ arjun
by aurora borealis on May 05, 2009 05:15 AM | Hide message
There is not right or wrong in any religion, but most of the missionaries try to convert via false claims, like saying that Hnduism has caste system when they themselves are no better. All Indian catholics I have met, go by their caste.
Re: @ arjun
by ithinampassi on May 04, 2009 11:24 PM
true. Agree.
Mayavati is not doing this. She is just a politician doing cast divide and business.
The institution of separate electorates for the Musliims was the first expression of the pernicious two nation theory, which ultimately resulted in the foundation of Pakistan. Published documents fully establish the fact that this was created by deliberate policy as an effective method to keep the Hiindus and Musliims apart. Lady Minto, the wife of the Viceroy who was reponsible for this piece of political Machiavellianism, noted with glee that her husband had by this act ensured for a long time the authority of the British in India. The system of separate electorates was a simple device. It provided that Musliims should be represented only by Musliims, elected only by Musliim voters and, further, that no Musliim could represent a Hiindu constituency or vice versa. By this expedient the Musliims in India from Cape Comorin to Kashmir became a separate political entity, perpetually at odds with the Hiindus and judging all issues from the point of view of a reliigious community. As the Musliim candidates to the legislatures had to depend on a religiious franchise, their views and policies came to be moulded by considerations of religiious fanaticism. India took over forty years to be rid of this vicious system and that, too, at the terrible cost of a partition. (Excerpts from ASIA AND WESTERN DOMINANCE by KM PANIKKAR, noted Historian and Diplomat) - book freely available at the web of MultiVarsity dot com
Re: Origin of Two Nation Theory
by arjun on May 04, 2009 07:39 PM
Why you and me not getting CONVERTED.... I have a JOB.. I have an income....I am indepent
They want to build temples & masjids all over india NOT JOBS........
Vote for a party that brings JOBS.....PEACE...UNITY...& STABILITY...
Not the one that brings, war with neighbours,.. builds temples and musjids insted of JOBS....
Let them Accept all cultures and languages….and religions…. INDIA. .is…. UNITY in DIVERSITY.......as the first Mantra…
Re: Re: Re: Re: Origin of Two Nation Theory
by JGN on May 04, 2009 07:43 PM
Jolly well paste the same message thousands of times. I don't want to waste my time reporting your message for "abuse"! Enjoy!!!