neither yuvi , nor kohli , nor dhoni could handle the lankan bowling at death. dhoni struggled the most , luckily his innings was short , however what i missed most was the sixer from the 'world's greatest finisher' [sic]
Re: ..
by sunil vaidya on Apr 14, 2014 08:43 AM
so? why make such a big issue of it? everybody fails at some time ....if yuvi kohli dhoni could not force the pace it was also because of good bowling by lanka at the death overs...
we also have bowled good some times even at death overs where the best batsmen of the opposition could not score fast...it happens...
do you remember the match against WI ...we kept quiet a destructive batsmen like gayle...and he faced many many deliveries but could not fire...it can happen to the best of players...
sometimes the batsmen wins sometimes the bowlers...
and if you missed most the sixer from dhoni that time...he also has delivered many times...
now if you are expecting dhoni or anybody else for that matter to fire and succeed 100% of times...of course that is naturally not going to happen...
Re: Re: ..
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 14, 2014 05:08 PM
exactly, so why are dhonitards blaming only a single reason for the defeat, i.e. finding a scapegoat in yuvi? what you have said is what i've been saying all thru the threads. please argue with dhonitards found all over these threads, since you and i are on the same page on this.
Re: Re: Re: ..
by sunil vaidya on Apr 15, 2014 01:12 PM
now you are assuming things...it is not necessary that only ''dhonitards'' as you call them are blaming yuvi....
i am sure there are many of them who in fact dont like dhoni but they have to blame somebody or sincerely that yuvi's 21 ball 11 is responsible for india's defeat...
it is certainly not necessary that all of them are ''dhonitards''
Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by sunil vaidya on Apr 15, 2014 01:17 PM
please think about it...it is not necessary that all those who are blaming yuvi are dhoni fans, fanatics or dhonitards...
have you considered the possibility that many of them sincerely think that it is yuvi 21 ball 11 which stalled indias progress....now some of them may be dhoni fans and some of them might equally be dhoni haters...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 16, 2014 01:48 AM
yup, they may not be dhoni fanatics as i just said, but a lot of them are, like the guy i encountered earlier on this thread, you must know him for sure.
Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 16, 2014 01:44 AM
it is not necessary that all of those who are blaming yuvi are dhoni fanatics. i never said they were (who's assuming things, you or me?) however, what is interesting is an overwhelming amount of dhoni fanatics were blaming yuvi as if he were the sole cause of defeat . i showed a page back, that even with an innings as slow as yuvi's, matches can be won (considering it's a team game), giving an example of windies victory over lanka in last t20 finale.
i appreciate the fact, you've come to the defense of 'dhonitards', but assuming or misinterpreting posts must be your forte since you do so with such an alarming regularity :)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by sunil vaidya on Apr 17, 2014 07:25 AM
it is very surprising you think that in my above posts i am defending dhoni fans
i can only say you cannot read sentences.... nowhere in my above post i have defended dhoni fans, fanatics or dhonitards yet you think my above post is in defence of 'dhonitards'! In fact it is you who is doing the assuming or misinterpreting my above posts... :-)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by sunil vaidya on Apr 17, 2014 07:32 AM
Frankly you are getting so carried away in writing anti dhoni posts that anybody who defends dhoni seems like a dhonitard to you...
and your giving example of an innings as slow as yuvi still leading to a win in no way can justify defending anybody who has criticisized yuvi innings...and let me tell you a 21 ball 11 run inning can be criticized even in an odi game...and t20 the stats is more glaring...
if giving some example of win is correct then that can be done to many such innings or case of bad bowling...you might criticise the bowling of a bowler who gave 40 runs in 4 overs and say that because of him the team lost...and it would be incorrect of me to give examples of team winning where one bowler of them has given away more than 40 runs in his 4 overs and still they won the game!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by sunil vaidya on Apr 17, 2014 07:36 AM
Frankly you are getting so carried away in writing anti dhoni posts that anybody who defends dhoni seems like a dhonitard to you...
and your giving example of an innings as slow as yuvi still leading to a win in no way can justify defending anybody who has criticisized yuvi innings...and let me tell you a 21 ball 11 run inning can be criticized even in an odi game...and t20 the stats is more glaring...
if giving some example of win is correct then that can be done to many such innings or case of bad bowling...you might criticise the bowling of a bowler who gave 40 runs in 4 overs and say that because of him the team lost...and it would be incorrect of me to give examples of team winning where one bowler of them has given away more than 40 runs in his 4 overs and still they won the game!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by sunil vaidya on Apr 17, 2014 07:45 AM
and let me tell you though it is a team game we can criticize a particular innings or bowling... if you claim that since it is a team game you cannot blame solely blame anybody (in this case yuvi) then it means you cannot ever blame anybody for his innings...since it is a team game...and i wonder in that case how you can blame dhoni for anything because it is a team game and how can you blame any sole person? (according to your own logic)...:-)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 18, 2014 02:05 AM
let me be very clear, with you attacking me on things other than a cricketing argument and getting personal needlessly does not get this debate anywhere. i do not wish to engage in a debate where you are attacking me and i attack you eg. you taking potshots at me with stuff like 'you cannot read sentences'. this unnecessarily deviates from the topic at hand and does not serve any fruitful purpose . if you are here to challenge/argue against my views regarding cricket stated across these threads, you can by all means continue to do so and i may respond, after all that is the intended purpose of a thread such as this - to talk on the subject at hand.
now onto the topic at hand, you can have your own views , and i can have mine. you have reasons for your views/viewpoint and so do i. this is why you and others over here are free to believe yuvi is the culprit here. i may or may not believe in this, and may want to reply about the same, stating my side of things. this in no way should pose problems to either side.
as for the example i gave , i disagree with your take on this, as i believe an example is the best way to get your point across . my ex. draws parallels from windies batting failure in last t20 finals , and i have a fantastic case in hand to compare yuvi with gayle. after a splendid inns in semis, gayle played a poor inns of 3 from 16.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 18, 2014 02:10 AM
despite a poor inns such as gayle's it did not affect samuel's ability to hit malinga for 5 sixes , nor did it affect sammy and the windies bowlers' ability to win by quite a margin.
an example , may not exonerate people , but it legitimates a way of thought and has the capacity to negate arguments. if people on these threads believe yuvi's inns to be the sole culprit, then how is it that gayle ended up on the winning side? did dhoni miss few tricks, that sammy succeeded in? what about the role of other people in the team, do they not owe any responsibility?
drawing an analogy from previous edition of wt20 final allows me to disprove arguments put forth by people (rediff even carried an opinion poll, with majority believing that yuvi was the reason for the defeat). i've always given examples with many of my thousands of cricketing posts on this site , it helps to be armed with the specific kind of knowledge.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 18, 2014 02:15 AM
now please allow me to draw an analogy with math , consider the function, f(n) = n^2 - n Ɨ 41 (that is a plus between n and 41) . this is a well known function which is supposed to churn out primes. however, the question is, is this always true? put n as 0 or a positive integer, start with 0 , go thru 1 , 2 , 3 ... in a serial order. you will see you indeed get primes as the result, eg. with 14 ( 14^2 - 14 Ɨ 41 = 223 , which is prime!) you see this has all successful cases , but only thru to the number 40 , which gives us 41 successful cases (incl. 0) , but as soon as we plug in 41 , it gives us a non-prime. what this states is, this function isn't true for an infinite number of cases( or all cases), and believing it to be true would be a fallacy. similarily the fact that yuvi's inns is the sole cause of defeat or anybody's inns is the sole cause of defeat is not true for all cases, this is proved with me giving an example of gayle's pathetic inns in last t20 and still ending up on the winning side , just as a single number 41 disproved the function which supposedly generated prime numbers.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by sunil vaidya on Apr 18, 2014 03:03 PM
you should also consider that yuvi's innnings came in the latter half of the innings when things were about to end...gayles innings came in the first half...there was time to recover from gayles slow batting...no time to recover from yuvis slow batting because innings was coming to an end...
it is not always so clear cut as you think...yuvi batting came at close of innings and gayle at start of innings...you also have to consider this fact...
there is of course no hard and fast rule...there are so many intangibles...you cannot calculate everything...cricket is not maths...in maths you can have some formula not in cricket..
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by sunil vaidya on Apr 18, 2014 03:14 PM
and by the way though gayle failed, samuels played a big innings...and sammy had nothing to do with it...so your line 'diddhoni miss some trick thatsammy did no' 'does not carry much weight...and here too what comes across quite clear is that you find some way to damndhoni...
it is YOU who does not miss a trick ... a chance to put dhonidown somehow...
and let me conclude by saying that more than me YOU seem to be obsessed bydhoni....it seems dhoniis more on your mind than he is on mymind...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 19, 2014 02:44 AM
well, since dhoni can take credit for the wins , he surely can owe responsibility for the losses too (note: he's also the captain of the side in all formats, do not forget that), it's a simple argument. plus, in the game, dhoni faced more than an over, where he could not put bat to ball, i saw how miserably he struggled as well , and you know he's called the 'world's greatest finisher' , while it was 'assumed' yuvi was struggling . so why couldn't the world's greatest finisher put bat to ball? btw if you can't handle criticism towards your hero, and have to resort to attacking me instead ,does that mean you don't have enough material to defend the 'world's greatest finisher'? either way, my point is , yes yuvi had a really off day, and one of the reasons we lost, but definitely not the sole cause of defeat as he's made out to be. let alone dhoni, even kohli could do nothing in the death overs
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 19, 2014 03:01 AM
in the last wt20 final , sammy's boys performed excellently in the field (particularly narine) restricting lanka to ~100 runs and winning by > 30 run margin. , whereas dhoni's handpicked attack consisting of his ipl team/faves , the attack comprising of the likes of mohit sharma, jaddu, ashwin , raina etc. could not stop the lankans from attaining an easy victory within ~18 overs. this is exactly why my argument does have weight, contrary to your dreamy claims. if dhoni isn't responsible for his team selection , bowling changes or field placings then who is? ( the same guy responsible for mccullum taking the game away at basin reserve , so to speak)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ..
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 19, 2014 03:06 AM
as for the math, you do not see a formula , it doesn't mean math doesn't exist. it exists all around us. f.ex when a batsman lofts a ball in the air and it eventually comes down in a curve, indicating a parabola, you do not see the equation or a vertex of a parabola , doesn't mean parabolas don't exist , or f.ex when the batsman plays the ball along the ground it doesn't mean the math behind the frictional forces working upon the ball in a grassy outfield cease to exist . what you see is runs, scores, averages, run rates, pitch length , d/l method etc. they all have to do with math. last but not the least, all the statistics cricket statisticians churn out, what we readily access thru statsguru for instance concern math (statistics). [ just a sidenote, math can help you locate missing flightboxes as well , bayesian theory did that with air france 447]
Not in this case. This guy needs to be booed every time he comes out in IPL games. Royal challengers will be the most hated team. Vijay Malaya will loose whatever brand value he has left.
Would'nt have mind if India would have exited the tournament in the first round itself if it was an honest try & fight. But this guys had his own selfish reasons to make India loose.
Re: Generally a cancer survivor turns modest and honest
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 11, 2014 01:52 PM
apparently you got weak memory, yuvi played many exceptional knocks after his return to national squad. let me know if you need a short list :)
This entire article lacks logic. A batsman cant come out and score a 50 or 100 in every match. Thats when other players in the team can step up and take over. But he can atleast make sure that he scores at a reasonable pace, especially in T20. What Yuvraj did in this final (and the entire tourney actually) was slow down the momentum created by the other batsmen, as was evident in the match against WI also before the final. Not letting Kohli get strike in the final when he was in such rich form was what irks more. It wouldn't have mattered if he had not scored in those games, because then others would have had enough time to drive up the score. What he did was use up all the balls and not score any runs.
Misbah did what he thought was best when it was the last wicket, but it didn't work out. If that scoop had gone for a boundary, they would have won. Dilshan won every other game for SL, but failed in the final. Atleast he didn't take 20 balls to get out for a duck. Same with Watson - out second ball, though his bowling may have done him in. Malinga's 2 overs went for plenty, but Samuels was on song that day. The point is all these players contributed to the team getting to the final, whereas our guy failed almost throughout the tourney. Kindly do not compare his failure with the others'. Its comparing apples to a stale orange.
Re: Article lacking logic
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 11, 2014 01:57 PM
could you also explain why dhoni struggled at death , despite being so 'adept' at finishing an innings? (assuming, dhoni is in 'great' form)
Re: Re: Article lacking logic
by Sreejith Sreedharan on Apr 12, 2014 04:13 AM
If you are defending Yuvi by saying that Dhoni couldn't score either, then let me bring to your attention, again, that Kohli was at the other end and all Yuvi had to do was give Kohli the strike. Dhoni came at the end and he had to swing at every ball, which he couldn't connect. I am not defending Dhoni here, but saying that given, the amount of time Yuvi had, he should have played with more sense.
Re: Re: Re: Article lacking logic
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 12, 2014 12:16 PM
t20 is as it is a very short format; when dhoni came on to the crease, you still had ~2 overs remaining. They managed to score just 11 from them 2 overs, and dhoni faced more than an over in his stay on the crease. an over is enough already in t20 format, and he only managed 4. kohli struggled at death too. moreover, if dhoni takes credit and all the praise for successful endeavors, he should also owe responsibility when the team fails. this way, not only his captaincy, his ability to finish the innings was also exposed , simply finishing the innings with a sixer when the going is easy and the match is won does not make you the world's greatest finisher.
Re: Article lacking logic
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 11, 2014 02:03 PM
if yuvi's form (or rather 'loss of form) was so evident before the final as you say, then why did not dhoni promote himself or raina over yuvi? would you admit he failed at managing the batting order, which he's so good at usually, when promoting himself either up or demoting himself down according to the situation.
also, in last t20 final, the windies batting failed except for samuels, and they put up a low total as well, but managed to defend it, instead of giving up the fight.
Re: Re: Article lacking logic
by Sreejith Sreedharan on Apr 12, 2014 04:17 AM
The point here isn't whether Dhoni did the right thing or not, but that Yuvi didn't play sensibly. I definitely agree that Dhoni made a blunder by sending Yuvi considering he wasn't in good touch. Yuvi's previous innings against Australia must have given Dhoni a slight hope in Yuvi. But that still doesn't excuse Yuvi for the way he played.
Re: Re: Re: Article lacking logic
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 12, 2014 12:27 PM
to draw an analogy from last wt20, gayle's inns in the semifinal must've given sammy hope, but he failed miserably in the final , that however did not stop windies from defeating lanka by quite some margin,
Re: Article lacking logic
by y hegde on Apr 12, 2014 11:55 AM
yes and it was clear that both dhoni and kohli were rattled by yuvis innings.. could not connect and the whole team morale and confidence dropped.. where as srilankans confidence rose..
Re: Re: Article lacking logic
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 12, 2014 12:18 PM
did gayle's failure in the last t20 final drop samuels morale? , also with such a low total, windies still defended and defeated lanka by quite some margin, while dhoni could do nothing in the field.
Only in India players can like MSD can become Captains and lead a TEAM. Elsewhere MSD would have thrown out. He is trying his luck hardway. But he has made MILLIONS. Nohting to worry.
Re: YS & MSD
by Sreejith Sreedharan on Apr 11, 2014 01:06 AM
Maybe that's why he was chosen as the captain of the ICC XI team after this world cup. You are crazy.
Re: Re: YS & MSD
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 11, 2014 01:58 PM
his incompetence showed, dhoni did not bother promoting raina or himself over yuvi. secondly, he struggled to score and was poorer than yuvi.
Re: Re: Re: YS & MSD
by aaa on Apr 11, 2014 06:43 PM
dreamer faltuwala, he chose yovraj because he was lefty as that would trouble the bowler. If he had chosen raina and had raina failed you would have said he should have sent yovraj as he was a proven horse..get a life
Re: Re: Re: Re: YS & MSD
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 12, 2014 12:20 PM
i saw the whole game, dhoni's time at the crease was equally if not more pathetic than yuvi's. the guy can shuffle his batting order on whim, to hit the winning runs or the winning 'sixer' (as it is called) when the match is won or the going is easy, but fails to put bat to ball over here. things don't match, do they? your hero can take the credit when things go his way, but shirk responsibility otherwise. (btw, distorting my pseudonym, neither validates your point nor denigrates mine , if you thought it would)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: YS & MSD
by Shikari Shambu on Apr 12, 2014 06:57 PM
Dreamer, ignore these slave fantards who can even see beyond their miniature low class fantasy books.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: YS & MSD
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 14, 2014 05:15 PM
this is way better than just coolly reporting my messages..it's an improvement :)
Re: Re: YS & MSD
by dreamer formerlytaklu on Apr 12, 2014 12:23 PM
the guy picks ~50% from his ipl team, yet can't trounce lanka, mohit & jaddu were 'awesome' in the field that evening.
