I still believe Dada was one of the greatest captain of indian cricket team. Under his leadership India team won test matches both in England and Australia but the team has failed on bouncy tracks under DHONI.
Re: Dada is the greatest captain
by Abstract baba on Mar 06, 2013 03:02 PM
Yes Dada was the person who coached Sachin, Dravid and laxman to play on bouncy tracks.. when Dhoni took over they forgot how to play..so dhoni is responsible.. i do agree with you totally.
By becoming the most successful Test captain of the Indian Team since Indepencence;Dhoni is next in line to become the Bharat Ratna-if the Govt decides to bestow the Award to sports persons.
I still believe Dada was one of the greatest captain of indian cricket team. Under his leadership India team won test matches both in England and Australia but the team has failed on bouncy tracks under DHONI.
Re: Dada is the greatest captain
by Nandu Indian on Mar 06, 2013 03:04 PM
Dhoni is good but he is enjoying the success on hardwork Dada did.. Unlike some star batsman who kept playing for 25 year to make personal records. Dada made the whole team. BHarat Ratna for Dada
even dhoni knows he has not achieved anything. this silly media either goes to or - infinity depending on the situation. when he hangs up his boots, then an assessment can be made.
Re: Re: Wrong notion
by subash bose on Mar 06, 2013 02:53 PM
I need to add a little bit of flavour to the so called leadership stuff. Ganguly takes pride in performance of people like Sachin and claim credit too. I doubt whether it is the case with Dhoni and Sehwag. Because of this atitude of Dhoni and the partisanship of the board chairman, we are about to lose few finest players like Sehwag.
Re: Wrong notion
by Abstract baba on Mar 06, 2013 02:53 PM
well.. if u say he was the main reason for the defeats before this series then he is the main reason for these 2 victories.. Either blame every one equally and praise every one ..no one asked y sachin was performing so bad..why were the bowlers bowling so bad, no one blamed the horrific opening batsmen. why would you want to take away the credit fromhim now especailly the way he has batted inthese 2 games.
just a month back india got defeated by england in india, humiliated in overseas matches, two straight win aggainst minnows make him great whats the logic?
Merely winning two test matches and scoring a double century on Indian conditions won't do to call him an achiever.We all know that in Indian conditions,even club players can score runs if given the opportunity.
If he did the same thing overseas,then the above title would have been apt for him.Why don't you see his scores abroad.They are pathetic.In the recent Australian tour,we all know how well he batted.
During the T20 world cup,it was players like Yuvraj and Raina who made the difference,not him.In the world cup,it was other players,who outperformed him.Just because he doesn't lose his cool,doesn't give him the right to be a successful captain.
A captain needs to set an example and motivate the players to give their best shot.He needs to rise above the rest and not just stand there clueless.
Sure,you can't away his records,but records don't always show the actual potential of a player or team.In my opinion,captains like Imran Khan,Saurav Ganguly,Greame Smith have proved themselves often.
That is what makes a great captain.Saurav Ganguly was given a hopeless team.He took on the mantle and gave his players the confidence and chance to exhibit their talents.
The same can be said about Greame Smith.You might recollect the match against Australia.He led from the front.Consistency is what counts and makes a great captain.
It is fine if he cannot contribute always,but Dhoni will never be able to be consistent,which happens to the main quality of a successful captain.
Re: Disagree
by MOHAN RAO on Mar 06, 2013 02:20 PM
Yah You r right. Ask him to perform in foreign pitches and he will face debacle. In India, anybody can win matches in the pitches which are tailor made. Even u and I can win matches. Let this Indian team perform like this in Foreign conditios. You will see the difference
Re: Re: Disagree
by k prabu on Mar 06, 2013 02:48 PM
Hello Mr.Mohan, Check the stats as no. of foreign pitches where Indians won under Ganguly's leadership, 11 of the overseas win includes Bangladesh, Srilanka, Zimbabwe, England and Austalia. Whereas under Dhoni it is only just 5 (include couple against New Zealand and South Africa) and still he has few more years left in him, letz wait and see whether his boys can pull a stunner in South Africa! Bottom line is Dhoni will end his career on all time high and one of the best captains India has ever produced. If you smart enough you will understand that comparison is all by media hype.
Re: Disagree
by k prabu on Mar 06, 2013 02:33 PM
Couple of things Mr.Sumith.
- are you saying a team which Ganguly had such as Sachin, VVS, Dravid, himself, Sehwag, Srinath, Prasad, Kumble is a "hopeless" team for you? inspite of having that team at best he was able to reach only Finals of world cup and got bashed by australians. On the otherhand Dhoni was given the actual "hopeless", "incosistent" but young team whom he was able to shepherd through to Worldcup wins. Ganguly was good when he was not captain and briefly for a period after taking the captainship mantle but overall he was just an average captain.
- coming to fluency in batting, Dhoni is not technically sound neither did Javed Miandad but both were able to reach great heights in their respective careers, infact everyone in cricketing fraternity knows Ganguly is an off-side player and when it comes bouncer or leg side delivery - then, he is as clumsy as one can imagine.
- finally on your point of Greame Smith, if you check South Africa's winning record in the past 10 years theirs bowlers did it for them whether its Allan Donald, Shaun Pollock, Brian McMillan, Mkaya Nitini, world class all-rounder Kallis, Lance Klusener now its Dale Steyn, Philander,Morne Morkel, Abott etc....similarly for batsmen the list is endless. So the bottom line is however great batting line up you have, you should also be backed up by good bowling unit, after Dhoni took over the mantle whom can you name like that?, now tell me who is good Ganguly or
Re: Re: Disagree
by mahadevan thangaraj on Mar 06, 2013 02:41 PM
Well out of Ganguly's overseas record, he had post one win against OZ, Eng, SA and another good team.. Total 4 against good teams.. He had posted the rest of the overseas wins against Zim & Bang.. 6 against Zim.. Not a big deal..
Re: Re: Re: Disagree
by Ravi Iyer on Mar 06, 2013 03:18 PM
Ganguly never had a win in SA as Capt. Only 1 in Eng (thanks to Dravid for playing out the 1st day on a seaming Headingley pitch) and one in Aus (again thanks To Dravid and great support from VVS). One win in Rawalpindi was again thanks to 270 by Dravid.
Re: Re: Disagree
by abrakadabra on Mar 06, 2013 02:59 PM
When Sourav took over we are a bunch of good players not flourishing as a unit and there Sourav's contribution is very good.He marshalled his resources well and instilled good aggression to match the playing abilities. And we can not forget the match fixing scandal also. He overcame that troubled period. Second thing is your mention of 2003 Wc is very good but for a couple of facts. That was held in SA where seam bowlers are unplayable to our home bred batters and our spinners, who are our main strike force are rather toothless. Despite the odds we reached Finals only to be beaten by arguably the best ODI side ever played as far as my memory goes.It is not like we lost to a inferior side.Aussies bowling at that point of time is almost on par with the best of all time.Battingwise both teams are equal but it is the bowling that made the difference. Isn't it? But for the 2011 WC conditions suited our bowlers best and Dhoni capitalised on that.Full marks to him for that.But it is certainly unfair to compare any two captains.Ther is no necessity at all. We often forget cricket is a team game and focus more on individual achievements and attribute success to individuals which is wrong.That is cusing all the trouble for the team is my opinion.
Re: Re: Disagree
by abrakadabra on Mar 06, 2013 03:02 PM
Coming to Greme Smith, any team that has a reasonable batting with superb bowling is tend to succeed in tests. At the end of the day it is your ability to take 20 wickets is matters. But India which always is a very powerful batting unit but weak bowling unit. That's why we are unable to sustain winning.
I just dont understand how Dhoni's persistance with sehwag and harbajan can be called masterstroke. Both of them failed to create an impact, with the former being the worst among the 11 players who took to field (At least ishant proved somehting in the 2nd inn of hyd test). Had he included Ojha and Shikar Dhavan, they mgiht have performed better than these two.
We have this obsession in India. If the team wins, we fail to see any negatives and if the team loses, we fail to see any positives.
Re: d
by Abstract baba on Mar 06, 2013 02:58 PM
well there are Dhoni bashers who always take potshots at him. if he had dropped sehwag then they would say that he was a politician. he probably had no other go on this. As for Harbhajan, he might have thought that would be a pschylogical point to score over aussies, even though one would agree that bhajji failed miserably.
This is the funniest argument I have been hearing with Dhoni's FANS, please apply your mind
T20 Title: He just took over captaincy and Selectors have given him YOUNG TEAM and it was just because of couple of INDIVIDUAL performances (Yuvraj & Gambhir, Rohit, RP Singh etc) if you remove Yuvraj's INNINGS (ENG & AUS) we would not have WON THE CUP AT ALL.....if you assume we won due to his leadership skills then why are we not able to continue WCHAMPIONS form into T20 game after the victory. Dhoni struggled though out the tournament to score runs and hit boundaries scratching in the middle
ODI W-CUP: Again tell me dhoni's contribution except FINALS in the whole tournament, Yuvraj was already playing well through out the tounrnament with BAT/BALL even DHONI fails still Yuvraj or Raina would have continued to WIN the game for US. It is a team victory but again with consistent INDIVIDUAL performances by YUVRAJ (Man of the series) & second highest wicket tacker, Z Khan, Mpatel and some valuable knocks by Sachin,gambhir etc. How can people call captain leading from FRONT (FUNNIEST ARGUMENT RIGHT)....and also every one need to understand its SUBCONTINENT pitches would have given INDIA EDGE.
Test NO.1 Rank: We are alread on ROAD to NO.1 well before Dhoni has taken over captaincy he just continued good work.....in the CEREMONY KRIS SRIKANTH (C-MAN of selectors) clearly admitted that IT WAS THE TEAM BUILT BY GANGULY, CONTINUED BY DRAVID & KUMBLE and TO DHONI....yo
Re: 2 W-CUP WINS: How can you attribute these to DHONI's Leadersh
by R.S.Pandey on Mar 06, 2013 01:56 PM
Your arguments are well taken but tell me one thing, in case india loses, you want his head but if india wins, you don't give credit to him. what's this?
Re: 2 W-CUP WINS: How can you attribute these to DHONI's Leadersh
by Nol I on Mar 06, 2013 02:08 PM
Let me tell you a story. There was a young man who was being interviewed for the post of a seaman. The officiating officer asked him what he would do, were a tempest to come up, while at sea. The young man gave the stock reply that he would drop anchor. The OO asked him what he would do where another tempest to come up. "Drop another anchor," replied the would-be seaman. The OO continued to ask him what the seaman would do if another and yet another tempest were to rise up and the seaman replied that he would continue to drop anchor after anchor. At which the OO asked where he was getting all these anchors from. The young man replied, "From the same place you are getting these tempests from, Sir!"
I hope that answers your incredulity in attributing the successes of the Indian cricket team to Dhoni.
Re: 2 W-CUP WINS: How can you attribute these to DHONI's Leadersh
by bhavtesh raut on Mar 06, 2013 02:09 PM
The mental toughness of Dhoni is great there lies the difference and in the recent past i.e. last 8 months he has contributed consistently with the bat quiet consistently.Its not that you get a very good team and u always win. On the fly decisions on the field also play a crucial role & Dhoni has played the leadership role excellently.
