in overseas was this, even harbajan and saheer has done before, he dragged this game to end over, very slow batting ..luck no ball, etc..but luck will come once in a while wait and see other macthes..cricket itself is going down if this kind of player can do like this..
I would view Dhoni as an achiever. He has, i would say, achieved more for his talent. I admire him for that. In the last match though, i thought, he took it too late. He should've finished it off a couple of overs before.
He doesn't have the technique of a Sachin, but i would consider the runs scored by him to be more valuable. No wonder the stats state the same.
People may argue that he comes late in the batting order, so his average is good, but Sachin batted there for 80-90 ODIs. In between, he batted at number 4 as well. Is his average comparable? In those 100-120 times (you can include tests as well), do you have many instances of Sachin scoring the winning runs in tight matches and running towards the dressing room with wickets in his hand?? I always remember him running the other way round. Having said that, we are comparing Dhoni with Bevan, Hussey, arguably the best players ever in ODIs. He is the best around there. So, it is not that all those people betting lower in the order have those staggering stats.
Beyond that, we must consider that Dhoni has been a Wicket keeper and a Captain. Do we remember how our previous Captains got pathetic after becoming Captains??
Re: Dhoni
by sunil vaidya on Feb 13, 2012 10:44 PM
not only that krishna, not only dhoni's average is better than sachin his no. of runs are also better even though he comes low down the order...
imagine for somebody who comes so low down the order and sachin who has opened most of the time still dhoni took 3 innings LESS than sachin to complete his 6000 odi runs...
Re: Re: Re: Dhoni
by sunil vaidya on Feb 15, 2012 09:10 AM
Pseudo: I dont write stories. I write truth....:-)
You may like to write fiction. I enjoy writing non-fiction...:-)
I dont dumb down sachin achievement's....i am just putting them in their right place...they have been too overrated at the cost of other 10 players...whether you agree/accept my argument or not...I have written what I believe to be correct...:-)
yes if somebody finishes the game he will remain not out and his average will be good...so who stopped sachin from remaining not out? if he is so good why cant he do it? if dhoni who according to you is such a poor bat can do it why not the world's greatest batsman...didnt he plays his first 65-70 odd odis down the order? what happened?...you are saying I dumb down sachin's achievements?...look inwards pseudo...and ask yourself whether YOU are not doing the same thing to dhoni which you accuse I am doing with sachin?...:-)
and like I said even though dhoni comes down the order so often and sachin nearly always has opened the innings can you please tell me how come such a successful odi batsman as sahcin who inspite of opening most of the times has completed his 6000 odi runs in 3 innings LESS than dhoni (the underachiever, bad batsman, galli cricketer or whatever)? Any answer to this question?...:)
Pseudo, it is actually the other way round...YOU have praised sachin overly and dumbed down achievements of other 10 players and donated credits of their performances to sachin all these years...:-)
Re: Dhoni
by Varun on Feb 14, 2012 05:50 AM
Krishna, they are just trying to pull him down somehow. So all sorts of illogic works for them. If he has a good average batting down the order, then it also means that our famed top order has collapsed more often than not.
I would view Dhoni as an achiever. He has, i would say, achieved more for his talent. I admire him for that. In the last match though, i thought, he took it too late. He should've finished it off a couple of overs before.
He doesn't have the technique of a Sachin, but i would consider the runs scored by him to be more valuable. No wonder the stats state the same.
People may argue that he comes late in the batting order, so his average is good, but Sachin batted there for 80-90 ODIs. In between, he batted at number 4 as well. Is his average comparable? In those 100-120 times (you can include tests as well), do you have many instances of Sachin scoring the winning runs in tight matches and running towards the dressing room with wickets in his hand?? I always remember him running the other way round. Having said that, we are comparing Dhoni with Bevan, Hussey, arguably the best players ever in ODIs. He is the best around there. So, it is not that all those people betting lower in the order have those staggering stats.
Beyond that, we must consider that Dhoni has been a Wicket keeper and a Captain. Do we remember how our previous Captains got pathetic after becoming Captains??
Just go by facts, not emotions or previous thoughts - 1. The incidences that author has listed, are those true? Well no doubt. 2. Realize that he plays 3 roles - wicketkeeper, captain and batsman. Other than him there is not a good or consistent allrounder who can bat and bowl. 3. Compare the batting of other wicketkeepers in the world. How many have been expected to bat like a specialized batsman? In India's case, the best we had was Kirmani but there were not so much expecations from him. How many times Kirmani played such knocks. I think the fact that he is treated and expected to bat like a batsman, itself proves the point. 3. As a captain he has been good, but not now. There are situations he is seen lacking. This is a different issues. But as a wicketkeeper batsman, he is probably one of the best.
Re: Re: Lets be fair...
by ANIL SINGH on Feb 13, 2012 10:10 PM
44 not out was sort of what misbah did in world cup. it became matter of luck to get 13 in last over. it was rubbish knock and only because of his slow batting the easy victory turned into hard fought one.
Re: Re: Re: Lets be fair...
by Abstract baba on Feb 13, 2012 11:25 PM
Playing Aussie in aus is no means easy.furth these guys are athletes.. Pls don't be so harsh on dhoni.
Re: Re: Re: Lets be fair...
by Varun on Feb 14, 2012 05:51 AM
yeah Anil, the luck he is constantly having even when his luck in tests is out. Why do you think that is, such contrasting luck phenomenon ?
Re: Lets be fair...
by Against Pseudos on Feb 14, 2012 08:51 AM
Sabsebada whatever...
Whilst I admire the crux of your message, I'd point out characters like Gilchrist, Sangakkara, and Wade to name a few. Even Saha batted quite well in the last test. This is regarding your Point 2. above...
interesting stats.. outside india , tendulkars' record while chasing ,in mtaches india won..
matches won 32 -overall avg is 43.03.. but bootsed by two not outs 1 against zimbabwe and 1 against australia.. against the rest its mostly under 30s..
Re: Interesting stats on tendulkar
by Ravi House on Feb 13, 2012 09:37 PM
coming not out after coming opening is not an easy job. is 43 not a good average? he is not coming middle order or lower middle order. even dhoni would average 40 outside india while chasing with the help of not outs
Re: Re: Interesting stats on tendulkar
by Guest on Feb 13, 2012 09:43 PM
43 is good but for the century its under 30 mostly.. when u play for a period of 22 years and over 455 one-days.. a century will definitely fall in place..so single century against aus ,chasing a modest target without mcgrath is not all that great..
Re: Re: Re: Interesting stats on tendulkar
by Rajiv Kumar on Feb 13, 2012 10:04 PM
Guest, India has chased 41 matches from 2007. Sachin averages 40.29 in the 24 matches that India have won. Of course there is the 117* and 96* which helps the avg. 11 times he has scored more than 40, 4 times it is outside India. In these 11 times, he has scored more than 90 4 times.
When India has lost (17 matches) while chasing, Sachin averages 30.5. IF Only the match in Hydbd was won by India, his avg in the matches lost would be 21 and during victory would be 47.5!!
And u say he is not great, never mind it. It is not possible for everyone to recognize it.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Interesting stats on tendulkar
by krishna sumanth on Feb 13, 2012 10:17 PM
Well, isn't that the matter of the article. 'If only we won'. 'If we won more when Sachin played well while chasing', his records would be better, right??? If we had won in Hyd, If we had won in Chennai is useless as "WE DIDN'T WIN"
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Interesting stats on tendulkar
by Rajiv Kumar on Feb 13, 2012 10:28 PM
So u blame 1 person who played and the 10 who failed in that match?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Interesting stats on tendulkar
by Against Pseudos on Feb 14, 2012 09:21 AM
Krishna Sumanth:
;-)... We didn't win a single test in last 8 outings either. Thanx for pointing out the worthless batsman and captain that Dhoni is... BY YOUR OWN LOGIC... :)
Dhoni was plain lucky at yesterday's match. He almost singlehandedly drawn the Indian chase into a hopeless situation by not playing a single attacking shot. I am sure no cricketer in this world would plan a chase in a such a way where a team need to score more than 10 runs in last over. Infact Gambhir rightly pointed out after the match that the game should have been ober in 47-48th over, but for strange reason Dhoni was not playing a single attacking shot relying completely on his partners to score. Those who have watched the Indian chase would probably thought we lost it at the end of 49th over. It was a pathettic plan from Dhoni and he is simply lucky, otherwise he would have got screwed by the fans, media and even from his own team mates for playing such self destructive slow innings.
Dhoni was plain lucky at yesterday's match. He almost singlehandedly drawn the Indian chase into a hopeless situation by not playing a single attacking shot. I am sure no cricketer in this world would plan a chase in a such a way where a team need to score more than 10 runs in last over. Infact Gambhir rightly pointed out after the match that the game should have been ober in 47-48th over, but for strange reason Dhoni was not playing a single attacking shot relying completely on his partners to score. Those who have watched the Indian chase would probably thought we lost it at the end of 49th over. It was a pathettic plan from Dhoni and he is simply lucky, otherwise he would have got screwed by the fans, media and even from his own team mates for playing such self destructive slow innings.
Re: Re: WHAT DHONI IS DOING WHILE CHASING
by sunil vaidya on Feb 13, 2012 10:47 PM
abhbhat, it was a no ball for height not for overstepping...dhoni knew the ball was no ball because of height and he cannot be out so he hit that shot...he knew it was just like a free hit ball...where you dont get out...
Dhoni was plain lucky at yesterday's match. He almost singlehandedly drawn the Indian chase into a hopeless situation by not playing a single attacking shot. I am sure no cricketer in this world would plan a chase in a such a way where a team need to score more than 10 runs in last over. Infact Gambhir rightly pointed out after the match that the game should have been ober in 47-48th over, but for strange reason Dhoni was not playing a single attacking shot relying completely on his partners to score. Those who have watched the Indian chase would probably thought we lost it at the end of 49th over. It was a pathettic plan from Dhoni and he is simply lucky, otherwise he would have got screwed by the fans, media and even from his own team mates for playing such self destructive slow innings.
