SREESANTH IS NOT A SAINT, BUT AN AGRESSIVE BOWLER. EVERY OTHER BOWLERS CAN HOWL AND BE AGRESSIVE, BUT NOT SREESANTH. GOOD THAT DHONI UNDERSTOOD WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO NOT WINNING MATCHES IF HE CRUELLY SCOLD AND MAKE MOCKERY OF GOOD BOWLER IN THE OPEN AND LAUGHS OFF INTHE MIDST OF FIELD WHEN HE COMPLAINS ABOUT ERRATIC BEHAVIOUR OF SA CROWD AND PLAYERS. SA PLAYERS KNOW VERY WELL IF THEY ALLOW SREESANTH TO BE AGREESIVE IN HIS OWN WAYS, THAN SA IS GOING TO LOSE. NOW THE QUESTION IS WHICH CAPTAIN OF THE WORLD HAS SCOLDED AND TALKED HARSH AGAINST HIS OWN TEAM MATES. IT IS KNOWN THAT BOWLERS WIN MATCHES AND IF A GOOD BOWLER IS MADE A SCAPEGOAT OF HIS EGOISTIC ATTITUDE, THAN WE ARE NEVER GOING TO WIN, BUT DRAW. WHERE ARE GOOD PACE SEAMERS NOW, VERY FEW. IF CAPTAIN DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO TAKE CARE OF HIS BOWLER, THAN WHO WILL. WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN SA CAPTAIN AND SREESANTH, NOBODY KNOW THAT. HOW CAN ON SA CAPTAIN'S COMPLAINT, SREESANTH IS PICKED UP SINGULARLY. DOES NOT SA PLAYERS SLEDGE. WHAT IS DISGRACE AND GRACEFUL OF BEING AGRESSIVENESS ON PLAYGROUNDS. DHONI SHOULD FIRST BEHAVE LIKE A GOOD CAPTAIN ENCOURAGING HIS BEST WEAPONS AND NOT DISCOURAGE. DHONI STARTED ALL THESE FROM THE DAY WHEN SREESANTH DANCED WHEN DHONI WAS BOWLED IN ONE OF THE IPL MATCHES. WHY TO SHOW GRUDGE? IF BHAJJI HAD SLAPPED SREESANTH, SREESANTH COULD HAVE DONE THE SAME, BUT GOT SAVE AS TEAM PLAYERS CAME IN MIDDLE. IF ONE IS HIT SUDDENLY AND OTHER HAS TO HAVE TIME TO REACT WHICH WAS NOT GIVEN BY THE PLAYERS ON FIELD.
Re: the so called gods... sachin,dravid,laxan of test cricket
by explorer on Jan 07, 2011 10:13 AM
Why Sehwag didnt fire? If I understand correctly, right from the beginning it was decison made quite early to play for draw. As such there are not toomany occassions when a team chased 340 runs in the last innings.
Re: the so called gods... sachin,dravid,laxan of test cricket
by common man on Jan 07, 2011 09:50 AM
Draw forced by SA not India. SA played safe by stratchin the inning too far.
Re: the so called gods... sachin,dravid,laxan of test cricket
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 09:42 AM
Soco:
Nice to see you changed your tune after my last reply... :)
Good that you consider them Gods... they really played magnificently in this closely fought test ... a really thrilling battle I saw after a long time...
Re: Re: another proof
by arvin g on Jan 08, 2011 06:59 AM
not even 1-dayers... they like 20/20 ipl's... for these bird-brains 20/20 ipl is ultimate cricket...
Re: another proof
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 09:22 AM
Anybody wants to answer this, I wud leave some respected posters to answer to this very knowledgable poster. I can start with the following
Steyn takes 5 wickets in the 1 innings of a drawn test. what a non pressure performer. Kallis scores 2 centuries and see the match is drawn. Selfish isnt it. Sachin scored a century when sTEYN WAS BREATHING fire. what a coward. shud have given up his wicket. atleast match cud have produces a result and not a dull DRAW (as per some). Its another thing that we wud have lost.
The just concluded series between India and SA and Englan Australia just confirms that India,SA and England occupy the 1st three positions not necessarily in that order. Also Australia who started going down with the retirement of 4or 5 of their great players will take lot more time to recovder, if at all they recover.
Our greats like Sachin, Dravid and Laxman will retire soon enough and with that the fan following in this country will go down. We are a country of idolising and not lovers of any sport for sports sake. Since there cannot be another Sachin Cricket will stop being a money making industry as the interst in the game will decline.
Re: Indian Cricket
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 09:19 AM
Great post... I can hear a true cricket fan speaking, in this forest of usual Rediff Chest beaters.. :)
Re: Indian Cricket
by Varun on Jan 07, 2011 10:27 AM
The idolising part is so true. Players become bigger than the team in India. As for another Sachin, there wont be another Sachin, but someone even more better.
Re: Indian Cricket
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 09:28 AM
totally agree with you. thoughts of an emotional fan and a true lover of the game. well said mate.
Re: Indian Cricket
by explorer on Jan 07, 2011 10:23 AM
I dont think people can forget the greats like Sachin and Kumble for the kind of exceptional performance from them. And some other heroes definitely emerge and clashes continue.
Re: Indian Cricket
by Popatlal on Jan 07, 2011 10:16 AM
No player is bigger then the game. This game was alive before Sachin when there was a Sunil and it will be alive after that too. New heros will come and grab the 'Virat' stage. Get my point
Did Dhoni's blasting sreesanth have an effect in his morale in bowling n the second inings. he was such a different bowler in the durban test and the 1st innings of this test match. I feel dhoni shudnt have blasted him out in the open. He shud have waited for the test to over and then given the approprate treatment. I wonder if this has cost us winning this series. The south african players arent saints when it comes to sledging. we shudnt go by their word as to what sreesanth said to SMith or the others. I mean i am not saying we sreesanth shud say anything he wants. but shoni shud have sat with hi in the dressing room privately and cud have advised him and pe-talked him to motivate and bowl a gr8 spell considering what a series vistory wud mean. Lambasting him in the open wasnt the right thing i feel.
Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the open.
by valaparla swarup on Jan 07, 2011 09:21 AM
sri sant is a devil incarnate and he crosses the limit too often .SA players are not saints but they take care not crossing the limit.Srisant is disgrace and sickening
Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the open.
by Sunil Vaidya on Jan 07, 2011 08:59 AM
what do you mean in the open? I thought dhoni scolded sreesanth in the dressing room.
Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the open.
by Sameer on Jan 07, 2011 09:27 AM
Sunil Vaidya
If Dhoni scolded Sreeshanth in the dressing room , how do you know about it ? were you there ?
Things like this when done in the open, kill the morale of team members. With India taking non-performers like Ishanth Sharma and struggling to get any decent bowler , the actions done on the bowler who picked 5 wickets and causing a collapse of the SA batting lineup is in very poor light indeed
Dhoni hasn't been contributing with the bat. The least he should have done is not to resort to such actions.
Re: Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the open.
by Sunil Vaidya on Jan 07, 2011 10:39 AM
Sameer, How do you know dhoni scolded sreesanth in the open (and not in the dressing room)? how do you know about it? Were you there?
Besides Dhoni is a regular and good contributor with his bat and has done so many times in difficult situations. He failed only once in this series in the only innings that he could get to bat in this test...
Sameer, have you forgotten the 90 he made in the second innings in the first test? People like you only remember sachin's century (111 n.o.) and very conveniently have long-term memory loss about the performances of other 10 players. Have you forgotten who batted along with sachin when he made that century? People like you will only remember sachin's 100. they will all forget about dhoni's 90, gambhir's 80, sehwag's 63 and dravid's 43 in that same innings.
Do you remember that in the first test dhoni was second only to sachin in both innings? Are you aware that before the start of the 3rd test dhoni had made the most (aggregate) runs from the indian side?
Do you know Dhoni as a captain has got 14 (3 centuries and 11 fiftes) 50 plus in 34 innings (in 24 tests)? You think that is bad record? He has overall scored 1503 runs and averaged 50.10 runs with 4 times not out.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the op
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 10:50 AM
Sunil Vaidya:
We know Dhoni scolded Sreesanth. Period.
It is YOU who has been maintaining all along about closed and open. If you were right, then neither you nor me should even have been aware of the incident..
THAT is Sammer's contention and mine too... :)
As to his closing statement (which is a general statement by the way) there is hardly any need to quote innings by innings statistics about a normally obvious point. You can give another longer list about Dravid's performances too, but his recent swing of the bat has not been good either...
But you are using those numbers to sway from the original discussion though... :)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in th
by Sunil Vaidya on Jan 07, 2011 11:56 AM
Pseudo: Sameer's closing statement may be or may not be a general statement. I was only replying to him. Of course I NEVER have and NEVER will use any ploy to sway from the original discussion. That is not my nature. I wrote it only as a answer to Sameer's statement...:)
I agree with you completely that all of us should be prepared to take responsibility for whatever choices we make...
Pseudo, I dont see why you or Sameer are surprised that this thing has come out. the age we live in with so much advances in technology and science perhaps it is naive to expect such things not happening. If anybody else is present anything you do or say may come out any way. Why only leaks from dressing rooms even emails can be leaked, private correspondences may be leaked...
Pseudo and Sameer, we live in an age when we cannot be sure whether what we say or do even when we are alone will not come out...
Hundred years ago may be whatever one did in solitude the world will never know. But nowadays even if we are alone in our room there is no way to be sure that it will not come out. whatever we say or do when alone might come out if the place is bugged or there is camera installed....
This is the age of technology advances, hidden cameras, bugs, satellites and google earth my friends...
Nowadays it seems that only what we think in our mind is safe. Of course when we see movies like Minority Report or Inception may be in future our thoughts can also be invaded...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the op
by Sunil Vaidya on Jan 07, 2011 10:44 AM
Sameer, You always make a big issue of his being not out. Well if you do not like even his 4 not outs then let us consider that he was out in all this 34 innings. His record is still good. If you do not like 1503 divided 30 innings = 50.10 average, then how about 1503 divided by 34 innings = 44.20 average? This is his score PER innings (we can call it DEFLATED average) or what I called average without not outs a concept you and pseudo did not understand and made fun off.
Do you know that in winnings causes in tests dhoni overall has averaged almost 50 runs as a batsman and that average goes up to 58 runs when he is captain?
Sameer, it's ok if you hate/dislike dhoni but dont write lies or untrue things and pass them off as facts.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in th
by Sunil Vaidya on Jan 07, 2011 10:58 AM
And Sameer, please also note that he bats at no. 7 most of the time in tests. He has scored all these runs with mostly only 1 specialist batsman and all the bowlers to give him company. As opposed to this batsmen coming up the order have the luxury of having all the time in the world to build their innings as well as support of many specialist batsmen at the other end. Dhoni has to bat without this advantage and still has a great record.
Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the open.
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 09:05 AM
Sunil Vaidya:
Whilst I support Dhoni in this matter of reigning in errant teammates; the issue did come up in the open.... Surely Sreesanth didn't blurt it out to media... right? :)
Re: Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the open.
by Sunil Vaidya on Jan 07, 2011 09:11 AM
some team member may have talked. how do you know otherwise....
nowhere is it mentioned that there were others present (other than indian players or management) when that happened...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the op
by Sunil Vaidya on Jan 07, 2011 09:19 AM
Pseudo: Who said whatever happens privately in the dressing room never ever comes out...
otherwise all these stories about politics, inter state rivalry, groupism, about sreesanth being made fun of by his team mates because of his behaviour, differences of opinions etc. would never come out...
players/coaches/management staff do talk to the media on or off the record you know...:)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in th
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 10:21 AM
haan mere bhai, cud have waited till the end of series. thats all. No need to do in the middle of test match. do whatever you want then. hang in public or thappad.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in th
by Sunil Vaidya on Jan 07, 2011 09:56 AM
Pseudo: I disagree with you completely. Why should he 'blast in private (read private)?'only... Why should it 'always be' on a one-to-one basis...
Dhoni might not be the only one who is unhappy about that incident and sreesanth's behaviour. After all it reflects badly on the entire indian team. all players can have an opinion about this...
I see nothing wrong if when dhoni scolded sreesanth there were other persons present, like say any or all seniors like sachin, dravid, laxman bhajji or gary or even some upcoming new generation player etc... After all this is a team matter and others may also have a word of advice for sreesanth...some player who is close to sreesanth in the team can also be present and he can also counsel him...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in th
by Sunil Vaidya on Jan 07, 2011 10:04 AM
Pseudo: and for all you know it is not impossible that sree himself 'blurted' it out to a sympathetic journalist or said it to someone from the media that he felt comfortable with (or somebody with whom he is friendly or close or shares good relations) that such a thing happened either with the intention of saying that he had learned his lesson or with the intention of complaining against dhoni...:)
Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the open.
by delguy on Jan 07, 2011 07:17 AM
agreed,,,,Dhoni didnt do any good. He shouldnt have criticised Dhoni in the open and tell press,,,rubbish,,,
Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the open.
by Varun on Jan 07, 2011 10:29 AM
i doubt the morale on second innings part. It should have affected them in Innings one itself. But Dhoni sure was dead wrong to go public with it unless that was some strategy as some channels suggested.
Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the open.
by Subbu on Jan 07, 2011 07:08 AM
True, sree should be given full support. If dhoni just laughs it out, and because of srees habit, every time , he should not bring it open, and make sree more culprit. Support him, pat him on his back, he would be another kapil
Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the open.
by Rajan Mandal on Jan 07, 2011 09:32 AM
SRI IS incoreigible he has been a long rope .pyar se bat karna is no use.give a boot
Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the open.
by t xz on Jan 07, 2011 08:45 AM
Why did Dhoni's blasting of Sreesanth not affect his bowling in the 1st innings and just 2nd innings? Why not accept that he is not consistent, he bowls one or two good spells in 1 out of 10 innings. Even during that time he gets wickets, he bowls one or two boundary balls per over. That is why his test record is not that great - In 24 tests he has 79 wickets with average of over 35 and strike rate of 61 balls per wicket. For a pace bowler this is a very ordinary. Many good pace bowlers an average of less than 30 runs per wicket and strike rate around 50 balls per wicket.
Re: Re: Re: Dhoni shud not hav criticized sreesanth in the open.
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 08:55 AM
yes what u point is right, As i said i am not sure if this was the reason for his failure but cud just be one of the reasons. ALl i am saying is Dhoni cud have waited for the series to be over and then dealt with this guy in whatever manner he wants which cud be publically lambasting him or making him stand in a corner during celebrations. Or else he cud have taken him to a room and pep-talked him to win the sries with his bowling rather than abuse the players. That wud have been sweeter. Public bashing was not expected from a mature captain like dhoni to a guy like sreesanth who is known for his antics and psyche.
Re: phewww,,,,now can heave a sigh of relief
by Varun on Jan 07, 2011 10:32 AM
The pitch wasn't broken. This looked like the day 5 pitch we played and won against Eng in India. Only the footmark roughs to exploit. And yeah the odd bounce was a difference bringing the pacers into some play.
Re: phewww,,,,now can heave a sigh of relief
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 07:31 AM
Delguy:
100% agreed... After a looooonnng time we got a real treat of watching a "Test" match... Only yesterday I commented on this forum that it's near impossible in today's T20 era with Specatator oriented games to see batsmen having the grit to draw out matches; and hence I expected it to go either to India if they played aggressively or to SA if India were to try and defend.
But great to see that our batsmen proved me wrong.. :)
Re: Re: phewww,,,,now can heave a sigh of relief
by GARY on Jan 07, 2011 07:40 AM
If we had played a couple of local matches on bouncy tracks before the 1st test, possibly we would have done better in the 1st test and even win it.
Next times, we go to England or Australia or SA, WE should play a couple of local matches to get adjusted to local pitches and conditions.Else we may end up getting struck and battling out in 1st encounter
Re: phewww,,,,now can heave a sigh of relief
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 07:46 AM
Absolutely mate. It was a draw right. But watched the whole match and was enjoying the way our batsmen were gritting it out there ona day 5 pitch. Gambhir also has proven that he has the guts to fight it out there. Aftr taking a pinful blow on the elbow, he still carried it on in the middle and stood for more than 50 overs. Gr8 effort. This is what is test cricket. Loved the third test for evrything it has to offer from Sreesanth's speel to Kallis, tendulkar innings and steyns fiery spell and finally the last day textbook defence by the indians. Not easy drawing a test. if there was a target to chase I feel that task wud have been easier than securing this draw. Well Done india. Proud of you.
Pls understand the diference between being a no1 team and being a dominant team like the Windies of the 70-80s and aussies of 90's-2000's.India is no 1 team based on the ICC Rankings and is the best among the various test playing nations.This has been achievd by a series of victories in the last 2-3 years even though most of the tests have been at home but still India has done better than the other other test playing nations. However India is still far from achieving the dominant teams status that I have listed above. To achieve that kind of a status we have to go and beat every nation in their own backyard and dominate others like the windies and aussies. So please dont expect this team to perform wonders and miracles so soon. Give them more time. There is still a long way to achieve that status. we need to be really consistent in bowling and batting and have a god bench strength too with the amount of cricket that is being played nowa days. so far our team has done well to achieve the ranking and holding on to it still. So please dont expect bizzare and attrocious things like chasing 340 runs on a day 5 pitch against morkel and steyn just becos they are no 1 team. even the dominnat teams never did such a feat.also do guys watch test cricket here or comment just by looking at the scorecard.Do you guys know how to give resopect to the opposition. even though harris is considered ordinary he was doing enough from the pitch,It was our batsmen's skills that saved us.
Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Varun on Jan 07, 2011 10:33 AM
yeah and the dominant team wasnt dominant when they started their No 1 journey. So lets wait before passing judgements.
Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by delguy on Jan 07, 2011 07:00 AM
I think we have peaked, as Dravid, Laxman wont be around for long and We dont have one ferocious bowler that can make the difference. BTW Zaheer is also not young. I think India need to groom Sreesanth, its not good Indian captain to always advise him, he must be supported in front of other team, what happen in dressing room is another thing,,,
Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Varun on Jan 07, 2011 10:35 AM
Well then we should have peaked at their prime. The world does not end with retirement of sachin, dravid and laxman. Others will take over. You cant judge youngsters by their first exposure to SA. Dravid was an utter failure in Aus in his fist tour. Then he did stuff of legends in the next one.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Varun on Jan 07, 2011 11:02 AM
absolutely. But they will recover. Of course BCCI not giving them the exposure will be trouble. But i think this year we are touring and youngsters like pujara and vijay will get ample exposure along side the experienced ones. I dont see doom and gloom.
Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by GARY on Jan 07, 2011 07:42 AM
Dominant teams are the ones like the Bradman's 1948 team or Clive Lloyd's mid 1970s-1980s team and the famed Aussie team of late 1990s and early 2000s.
They would have chased the score and won it with style
Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 08:38 AM
2 things here 1. India is no way near the dominant teams that are mentioned above 2. Even for those dominant teams i doubt if they wud venture for such a chase against a decent pace attack like steyn and morkel in their backyard with the series tied 1-1.
On a different note though, such dominating teams wud not have let the opposition score 340 after being 130 for 6. Neither wud the opposing captain have the guts to declare when the target was 300 or so knowing well what the dominant team can do. Atleast Smith had this fear in his mind and diod not declare is a consolation i can take for the respect he has for our batters.
Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Varun on Jan 07, 2011 11:05 AM
India is at the start of its journey. Comparing with WI and Aus at their peak is not right. The team does evoke fears compared to the ones before.
Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 09:08 AM
Sudarshan S:
Agreed. Agreed. Agreed... :)
Especially the last one showing Smith's state of mind which at least hinted towards our "perceived" dominance which kept him back from any unnecessary bravado..
Great to read such deeply analytical and logical messages on this forum... :)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 09:33 AM
Thanks for that mate. I enjoy the replies you post to clean up the mess this forum goes through and to enlighten the knee jerk reaction posters. Its not easy what you do and please carry on the good work.
Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by arvin g on Jan 07, 2011 08:39 AM
give one example ... dont just say it for sake of saying... no team can make 340 on 5th day to win a match...
Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 09:12 AM
Arvin G:
If you are ready to admit whichever team can do that feat as being the best team ever, then I'll tell you that the dominant team of Australia achieved that feat on this very groung Cape Town; making 334/6 (target of 331) in 79.5 overs to win the match... Since you threw that challenge in that particular mode; I replied in that particular mode. But my firm belief is that, irrespective of whether or not any team ever "made" those many runs; the team which even "attempted" to make them would in my books be rated as a Dominant team..
India during the Gavaskar era scored 429 at Oval needing 438... That was a valiant effort...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by V Prashanth on Jan 07, 2011 09:37 AM
On a flat pitch against a depeleted SA Bowling attack.other than Ntini all others were pretty ordinary.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 09:44 AM
V Prashanth:
:) There you go again. Read Arvin G's original message. He didn't specify any flat pitch, any Ntini, any depleted attack. He thought scoring 340 to win a match within 90 overs was IMPOSSIBLE. NO Team can make. Period. So you disagree with HIM then... :) Eh? :)
Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 08:03 AM
can you give me one eg of a team having done that in test cricket on day 5 batting only (90Overs) chasing 340 or near about and won.
Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by mudamosi on Jan 07, 2011 08:34 AM
India came close can't remember if it was entirely on one day though. Tied match at Madras, India made 347 runs from 86.5 overs.
Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 08:10 AM
Sudarshan S:
The Aussie teams Gary referred to, regularly scored in excess of 4 runs an over; in case you know your cricket. If you want to draw an EXACT parallel of a complete Whole Day, etc.; then obviously you won't find an example coz its rare that the final wicket of the third innings falls "exactly" near the ending time of Day 4... :)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 08:30 AM
Look I did mention those teams were really dominant. they had gr8 bowling and batting and had match winners in both department and their bench strength filling the team was also seamless. if not batting they cud win by bowling. Such was the dominance of those teams that they did not needa ranking system to prove their greatness. Australia lost that series in india 2-1 (Laxman 281 series) in 2001 but still no one can deny the greatness of that Aus team. India is a long way away from that. Thy have just achieved the number 1 status and need to improve a lot to even dream of achieving a dominating status. so in my mind those expectations are not valid at this point of time. people expect becos this is no 1 team they shud go for the target and shud have won Which i pointed out in my first post that Being no1 and being dominant are two different things and we havent reached such heights yet to have such a bizarre expectation.i agree when you say those teams scoring in excess of 4runs an over. but that was usually in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd inninggs of the match where you are setting a target. I am not sure if they chased a target like 300 PLus at almost 4 runs an over in 4th innigs. that is a very rare rare achievement if even somebody had achieved it. Majority of the posters here watching too much 20-20 cricket were expectng that to happen. Tell me how many times were such targets chased even by the so called dominant teams (Not drawing an EXACT Parralel Mind you)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 08:58 AM
Sudarshan S:
Interestingly Australia won at the very location we are discussing - Cape Town; in 2002. Chasing down 334 in 79.2 overs...
But I didn't want to get into a match by match argument with you; it was more of a discussion... as I thought it could be done by a dominant team...
I too am happy that India were able to draw the match; which many current teams in the world including the current depleted Australian batting would have definitely lost... coz not many batting lineups are capable of even standing for a whole day on such a pitch; forget do that with such grit and to lose only 3 wickets... :)
Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Shobhit Acharya on Jan 07, 2011 08:00 AM
Against an Indian Bowling attack in Australia maybe, In an alien nation with the series tied 1-1, no captain in the world would take that rist. Not Dhoni , Not even Smith.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by arvin g on Jan 07, 2011 08:42 AM
mentioning is one thing... give example of a team scoring 340 runs on 5th day to win a test...just saying they would have done it and actually doing it are 2 different things...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by arvin g on Jan 07, 2011 10:16 AM
in 2002 at cape town aussie already made 131 on 4thday...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 10:58 AM
Arvin G:
It indeed was their bowlers fault not to take the last wicket in the third innings at the close of play; but the discussion was about scoring 300 plus in the fourth innings at the rate of more than 4 runs per over I believe...
If we want to go find an exact replica of the Cape Town test of 2011, we'll hit many stumbling blocks, including first team to score 362, second team to score 364, then the first team to score 341 exactly on the close of the 4th day.. Else you might come up with a first innings objection.. :)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dont confuse No1 team with a dominant team
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 09:02 AM
Arvin G:
Australia did it at this very location Cape Town in 2002, chasing down a target of 331 in 79.2 overs...
But the point is that irrespective of whether it has been done before or not; whether it should be attempted or not... THAT shows a dominant attitude. You might still have failed..
The other interesting point which Sudarshan S raised above is that if you had such dominant teams, you'd probably have won the match by an innings anyway... as done by England against the depleted Aussies...
But my point to Acharya was that neither India nor South Africa should have attempted this coz they are not yet in that "dominant" zone yet... :)
Re: Not sure how we can win WC2011
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 08:16 AM
Mothukuri:
Simple answer.
If we bat in the final and the target is 340, several things will happen:
a) We will have an ODI team, not a Test match team ... agreed?
b) Opponents will have to restrict each of their bowlers to bowl 10 overs and no more... agreed?
c) We will get many opportunities where opponents will have to place fielders with considerable restrictions.... agreed?
d) their bowlers will not be able to bowl 2 feet outside off.... we'll get extra runs in that case ... they're known as Wides in case you knew..
e) their spinners will not be able to bowl outside the leg stump either... that too will fetch us more runs... remember Wides?... I just told you, in case you forgot... :)
So I see why you are not sure how we can win WC 2011; but NOW I think you will be sure... Right? :)
Re: Re: Not sure how we can win WC2011
by yogesh patil on Jan 07, 2011 09:00 AM
also the main factor day 5 pitch boss...how can you forget that..in finals it will be just 50 overs old pitch and not 360 overs old
Re: Re: Not sure how we can win WC2011
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 08:48 AM
Gr8 Answer man. LMAO . This is the way certain posters need to be answered without being abused or sweared at. I am afraid a lot of posters tend to abuse and spoil the decorum of the forum and the disussion just wanders away to person name calling and stuff.
Re: Not sure how we can win WC2011
by Gopal on Jan 07, 2011 06:51 AM
how old are you because you don't seem to understand the difference between test and ODIs...this was a worn-out pitch puffing up dust everytime the ball hit a spot, which is unlike the batting beauties you get for ODIs...and also, there is a result called 'Draw' in test which isn't there in ODIs..hope you know that too...
To just understand what India achieved, no need to go back to history too much - just chk out the last test match where South Africa could not win despite having two days to play for scoring 300-odd dnd they lost by 80-odd runs. 300 is not a big score in 50-50 these days, every other team scores it, why couldn't SA which is supposedly a top team, not score that much to go by rubbish argument...
Re: Not sure how we can win WC2011
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 06:57 AM
Cud you please restict your viewing to the gully cricket or Tamasha or whatever you have been watching ? Test cricket is not for you mate. Dont spoil your health please. Check your BP.Did u watch this match or do u know the difference between chasing in the 2nd innings of an ODI and chasing on a day 5 pitch in a test. I am proud of this team. Without any practice match we came and squared the series 1-1. if you take out that first innings of the first test, I wud say that it is South africa who have ben chasing us and doing catch up with us, all through out the series. Even in this test we threatened to run through their 2nd innings. did south africa ever look like getting india all out here on a day 5 pitch. Infact let me also enlighten you with some more facts becos i watched this test match without missing a ball. Harris was creating some chances by pitching on the rough and gambhir was dropped once and it was getting very interesting then after lunch and before tea. A wicket there wud have put the pressure on india and wud have given harris the belief that yes he car run through this side. I am proud of the skill of our batsmen like gambhir , dravid, vvs and sachin to have negotiated the threat of these bowlers ona day 5 pitch. Gambhir if you watched was struck a painfull blow on the elbow in the first 10 minutes. it was gutsy the way he carried on and stood for more than 50 overs at the crease,
Re: Re: Not sure how we can win WC2011
by Shobhit Acharya on Jan 07, 2011 08:02 AM
LOL !!! Stop now .. still LOL ... Mothukuri got a mouthful to swallow already.
Re: Not sure how we can win WC2011
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 06:55 AM
Cud you please restict your viewing to the gully cricket or Tamasha or whatever you have been watching ? Test cricket is not for you mate. Dont spoil your health please. Check your BP.Did u watch this match or do u know the difference between chasing in the 2nd innings of an ODI and chasing on a day 5 pitch in a test. I am proud of this team. Without any practice match we came and squared the series 1-1. if you take out that first innings of the first test, I wud say that it is South africa who have ben chasing us and doing catch up with us, all through out the series. Even in this test we threatened to run through their 2nd innings. did south africa ever look like getting india all out here on a day 5 pitch. Infact let me also enlighten you with some more facts becos i watched this test match without missing a ball. Harris was creating some chances by pitching on the rough and gambhir was dropped once and it was getting very interesting then after lunch and before tea. I am proud of the skill of our batsmen like gambhir , dravid, vvs and sachin to have negotiated the threat of these bowlers ona day 5 pitch. Gambhir if you watched was struck a painfull blow on the elbow in the first 10 minutes. it was gutsy the way he carried on and stood for more than 50 overs at the crease,
India does not deserve to be no 1 considering they were timid to chase 340 score. This shows their mental state which is not of No.1 nataure.
To be regarded as No 1, one has to take risks and go for the kill by applying aggresive strategy.
Look at Aus,SA,WI in their heydays, they always go for the kill instead of worrying about loosing. If we loose, just accept the fact considering we are trying to provde no 1 or not. If we cant prove just accept the fact. Its just like showing who is no 1 in a class room instead of worrying about getting failed and coming as second in the class etc. To become great and regarded great, one has to take risks. Thats Why USA is number one country in the world. Because they take risks including sacrificing life. Take an example of Aeroplane invention. Before the perfect inventation by wright brothers, they sacrified their family livelihood. Now, see the invention worth. It connects people all over the world.
Re: Re: No 1 team should go for the kill
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 09:46 AM
Patric Tauro:
And how would it have been shown? If they lost chasing the target you'd have welcomed them more than their grit and determination to draw the match? ;-)
Re: No 1 team should go for the kill
by prasheen mothukuri on Jan 07, 2011 06:12 AM
they should have applied a strategy. like score so many runs in a session and then in the end session play like a one day game etc. Like making Laxman/Pujara coming 1 down instead of slow Dravid.
Re: Re: No 1 team should go for the kill
by prasheen mothukuri on Jan 07, 2011 06:16 AM
Inspite of having such players like Tendya,Laxman etc, we playing such a negative cricket is undigestable.
Re: Re: Re: No 1 team should go for the kill
by yogesh patil on Jan 07, 2011 09:07 AM
negative bowling from south africans is digestable and the effort to save match is undigestable...you have certain problem in digestion buddy...get some doctor...may be u will get it soon in forum only.
Re: Re: Re: No 1 team should go for the kill
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 06:22 AM
HOw long have you been folowing test cricket? Can you point one instance where a team scored 340 runs on a day 5 pitch chasing a target and won it. This is what the 20-20 cricket does to new block kids like you. dont watch test cricket mate. its not for you. its for adults.
Re: Re: Re: Re: No 1 team should go for the kill
by Gopal on Jan 07, 2011 06:53 AM
Rightly said so, Sudarsha - these babies in nappies, get to know about internet more than any sport and are talking about 'applying a strategy' to win by scoring 340 on a worn-out wicket- hilarious...may be they could have as well told what the strategy should have been..
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No 1 team should go for the kill
by Sudarshan S on Jan 07, 2011 07:10 AM
exactly mate. I am not sure how many of these kids have the patience to watch a test match session by session. They simply look at the scorecard on rediff or online and start blasting players etc. Like i saw some posts about dropping Pujara. If they had watched the match they wud have known what an unplayable delivery he got from steyn that day. That was not his fault at all. The guy has shown decent technique so far and I feel will come goood in the future.
Re: Re: Re: No 1 team should go for the kill
by Against Pseudos on Jan 07, 2011 08:18 AM
Mothukuri:
What was negative about seeing a solid defence from our batsmen?
Check out the present Australian batting... they couldn't draw matches precisely because of the lack of this "neative attitude" you are referring to... :)
