30 years back, Karsan Ghavri would be used along with Kapil to take the shine off the ball and the ball would be given to Spinners..today we have far far better medium pacers than Spinners...so its a matter of time and mind set..India will produce fast bowlers who will bring laurels to the country. Just have hope and we will have a pace battery of bowlers. Did we imagine a captain like Dhoni? Did we ever imagine winning Test Series abroad or even win Tests abroad? today we do and similarly we will have great fast bowlers...BCCI just needs to create pitches for them to be groomed and nurtured.
Meat India 1.5 kg Australia 40.3 kg Poultry India 0.7 kg Australia 31.3 kg Pork India less than 0.001 kg Australia 19.1 kg Fish India less than 0.001 kg Australia 25.1 kg
i had heard munaf patel bowling at 145kph at the start of his career( i'm not sure how many deliveries did he really bowl over 140kph!!), assuming even if he did that a couple of times, look at his current speed , its under 130kph!!. the reason is very simple, indians are not made to bowl at 140kph and over consistently.. They do it once in a bluemoon and that's purely fluke!!!
Re: ..
by Nikhil Shah on Apr 07, 2011 03:19 AM
India's pace attack seems to be improving over the decades. After the early 1930s the pair of Nissar and Amar Singh was good.
But if we look at our attack over the last few decades we seem to be catching up:
I have seen Sreesanth bowl 146kph on the Bangalore pitch and probably quicker outside India.
The reason we slow down in pace is because we overload our bowlers in ODIs and ours bowlers are physically and emotionally drained in the sub-continent.
Yadav is the fastest and last year in the IPL he was bowling around 145kph on Indian pitches.
Re: Re: ..
by Sudhindu sen on Apr 07, 2011 11:18 AM
Indian diet and Bowling speed
per capita consumption
Meat India 1.5 kg Australia 40.3 kg Poultry India 0.7 kg Australia 31.3 kg Pork India less than 0.001 kg Australia 19.1 kg Fish India less than 0.001 kg Australia 25.1 kg
Re: Re: ..
by A P on Apr 07, 2011 04:11 AM
the figures u gave are not the true picture. occasionally any bowler can bowl 140 , itsthe question of consistently bowling over 140 and thta's exactly what i tried to say in my first post...
Re: Re: Re: ..
by Nikhil Shah on Apr 07, 2011 04:30 AM
If the bowling speeds have improved over the decades so has been the consistentcy because even that was not very good.
Zaheer Khan was the highest wicket taker in the WC. He beat out Styen, Morkel, Lee, Malinga and Akhtar. This is because of the improved consistentcy.
India can make up with depth since most countries make not have average bowlers in terms of quantity.
Ishant was the first Indian bowler to break 150 kph in Australia. That will increase as Yadav could be the next one. The average pace of the seam bowling battery is also increasing with time.
Fast bowling is not india's cup of tea. There never was a fast bowler in india , nor will there ever be. The reason is simple Fast bowling is a lot of hard work,even extreme hard work, which no Indian can do... Yeah, but when it comes to batting the list is long, obviously because batting is much less hard work compared to Fast bowling..
Re: kirsten forgot that
by Nikhil Shah on Apr 07, 2011 02:06 AM
Bowling above 150kph is not India's cup of Tea. Off the current lot we have a high end seamer like Ishant and Sreesanth can be good in Test matches outside India
Bowling 150 kph in 1-dayers can be dangerous in the sub-continent since Akhtar and Tait can go for runs and it is a 50-50 battle.
The important thing for India is to groom the high speed bowlers properly by not playing them in the ODIs in India/SL/Pak and Blgd.
We have Umesh Yadav who generates good pace and should be good enough for pitches outside India.
Re: kirsten forgot that
by Nikhil Shah on Apr 07, 2011 05:00 AM
If fast bowling is not our Cup of tea then why was Zaheer Khan the best bowler in the WC? He is also ranked #3 in the world in the ICC rankings.
Statiscally, Munaf is as good as Zaheer. If our bowling attack is well rested, with reduced loads they can also be consistent we well.
Cricket is not a pace contest. Countries like SA, England and NZ have produced fast bowlers but have not won the WC or even a Test championship.
The current seam bowling resources show that Zaheer and Nehra will be 34 years of age for the next 2015 cup.
Munaf will become the next Zaheer since he is only 28 and his ODI numbers are similar to Zaheer.
Even in his early days, Zaheer was an excellent bowler in the death and had the yorkers, slower ones, bouncers, reverse swing and the variations Munaf does not have yet.
Munaf is a wicket to wicket accurate bowler but can enhance his skills like Zaheer. India will have a difficult time replacing Zaheer and Nehra.
Ishant and Sreesanth are good support in Tests matches only. India will have to rebuild for ODIs in particular because Praveen excels in swinging conditions.
For Tests, I see Umesh Yadav, the quicker strike bowlers for Test outside India. He should not be bowling in ODIs in India. Sreesanth and Ishant suffered and we should groom Yadav accordingly and reduce his bowling load to retain his pace and sharpness.
For ODIs, We need to look for better eco rates in the domestics and Pankaj Singh is a bit expensive.
Udnankant could be the candidate to replace Nehra if he can generate adequate pace of around 136 kph consistently. Otherwise he will slow down like the others and not very effective.
In India, it is a fashion for every budding cricketer to be a batsman. If you ask 9 out of 10 guys they would say they want to be batsman. bcoz being batsman is a bit high profile compared to a bowler.
Also there r numerous other factors like: ppl r not willing to put in the effort needed to be a successful pace bowler. reason: pace bowling is a difficult job and not many can handle the rigours that go with it. Secondly very many have poor physique to start with, hence pace bowling is not even an option for them. Thirdly the inclement weather in sub-continent will wear you out in a matter of few minutes, if u really go that hard on bowling quick.
So I guess we should stick to our strengths. We should produce pace bowlers who bowl a good line and length with a bit of variation, instead of just trying to hit the 150 kph barrier. We should know our limitations and work accordingly. In fact the gr8 McGrath never relied too much on pace. If you look at his bowling he had an unwavering accuracy with regards to line and length, yorkers, slow balls, inswing, outswing etc and that made him the legend that he is today.
Re: Shams Aly
by Bihar Badshah on Apr 06, 2011 10:04 PM
You are talking of the end result Great McGrath..he is the final output of the very good aussies fast bowling insttitutions or environment..Here we are talking of the start..start getting genuine fast bowler..two different discussion..I suppose..With the amount of cricket we play..we have room for raw fast bolwers who can create havoc in opposition mind and then are good spinners or good medium pacers take the advantage....Now since we are WC chanp we need to be aggressive and more self belief team..Recently we won test matches on fasttest tracks of SA and Australia..indicating no batsman Ponting or Kalis likes genuine fast...Poor Indian batsman where always critcized by media on our limitations in handling short balls..but so does Kallis or Ponting ..the only difference is they have fast bowlers and we do not..
Re: Re: Shams Aly
by Nikhil Shah on Apr 07, 2011 03:54 AM
Well there are bowlers who are above 150 kph like Tait and has made little impact on the game
In the 20/20 format he takes wickets but goes for runs. India's record will improve if we have more bowlers who are quicker than 148 kph and are consistent.
India's pace bowling resources are improving over time and so had been our fielding, so the extra pace of about 5-6kph we lack, we can make up in other areas and not rely too much on bowling strike rates.
Re: Herd Mentality. Ruckus Talk . Raise Voice agnst Inflation.
by Indian on Apr 06, 2011 09:26 PM
chintan: aam aadmi can't do much with inflation. I believe the ppl who r supposed to work on it r doing a fine job.
Politics are playing heavy role in cricket. It's better to do a talent hunt for bowlers for ages 15 to 21. If any bowler in these ages bowls more than 130Kmph, better to select them and start giving them the training. I believe definitely there will be 10 to 15 bowlers who can bowl faster than 135 to 140 kmph. Only issue is lack of opportunities due to political process. Every where there are politics which I believe is causing these issues.
Even Imran Khan selected Waqar and Akram from local tournaments. Sometimes it may work and sometimes it may not. But it is always better to give a try.
Re: Better to do a talent hunt for bowlers
by Indian on Apr 06, 2011 09:19 PM
Reddy: if u go to rural places, there might be lots of guys who have the physique to be talented pace bowlers. But how does one spot the talent???
Re: Re: Better to do a talent hunt for bowlers
by sreenivasulu reddy on Apr 06, 2011 10:11 PM
Indian - That's very good question. Recently I remembered one incident where Americans came to India for selecting pitchers for baseball. One of the criteria they looked is how fast they can throw baseball and whoever is the fast got chque of 1 Lac. They selected two players from india and gave them training. Now both are pitching for two baseball teams I believe. I believe for cricket also, the same formula can be followed. Atleast if this result produces one or two greatfastbowlers, it will help teamindia a lot.
Re: Better to do a talent hunt for bowlers
by Shams Aly on Apr 06, 2011 09:26 PM
there was once a question asked from sunil gavaskar by craig henry, why doesnt india produce seam bowlers like pakistan, sunil gavaskar told henry that he has no idea, then henry replied, well the indian people dont eat meat, thats the reason why they dont have that kind of energy to bowl. if you look at the history of indian fast bowling it will tell you exactly what henry said, we need some meat eaters in the team, no offense to any religion as i am also an indian but i guess we need to look for bowlers who are well built, good physique and offcourse look at their diet, why cant we produce a bowler like wasim akram, imran khan we are one of the biggest nations in cricket and still we cant produce bowlers like our neighbours, thats not acceptable.
Re: Re: Better to do a talent hunt for bowlers
by Indian Telugu on Apr 06, 2011 09:56 PM
Well, We have about 15 crore Muslims and some Christians who eat all kinds of meat, and a lot of hindus eat meat (though not red meat). But we still we do not have any fast bowlers
Re: Re: Better to do a talent hunt for bowlers
by sreenivasulu reddy on Apr 06, 2011 10:13 PM
Aly - I believe apart from food, exercise is the main thing. You can have Veg. But you need to have proper exercise to develop strength. This is one of the reason why Sachin is playing great for last 20 Yrs.
Re: Re: Better to do a talent hunt for bowlers
by Bihar Badshah on Apr 06, 2011 10:13 PM
Diet is misundersttod here by Aly...when this question wa sasked to Gavaskar, india was a poor developing nation economically..Now it is a financial power, what this means is it has added 400 million middleclass to its population who are now eating better nutrition food, meat or no meat and have better build generation, gym going generation and the probability of getting fast bowler is now more than it was earlier..some may argue that how cum poor country like Kenya have marathon runners..well in that country it is the goal..getting into sports uplifts them financially..so our youth needs to be given goal..Like who will become millionare/kaun banega crorepati..offer 1 crore proze and free training to youths bowling 150 kmph..BCCI is the richest board..You will see deluge of young fast bowlers cropping up in 3 years..I bet..Use national media to advertise...Dean Jones was asked same question how cum aussies have fast bowlers..he said during our schooldays we are told bloke who bowls fast will get the best girls..and that their motivation..may not work in different culture..but giving them a goal and challenge them to reach and get heavily rewraded will yield result..simple
Re: Re: Better to do a talent hunt for bowlers
by Indian on Apr 06, 2011 09:35 PM
Shams: I do not think just a diet could make all the difference. If that is the case why not Pakistan could produce more Wasim Akrams??? Also there r many other countries who have just avg pace bowlers, though they r meat eaters... I guess it all depends on the individual. How serious one is during training, how committed you are, do u have that burning intensity to make it big, ur dedication and many more. Australia one of the champions sides could not produce another Shane Warne?? why???
Re: Re: Re: Better to do a talent hunt for bowlers
by Shams Aly on Apr 06, 2011 09:45 PM
i agree bowler like shane warne, wasim akram, murli cant be produce they come once in your life time, batsmen like sachin cannot be produce, but yes pakistan did produce some seamers, if not like akram, but atleast they had good bowlers, india also had a good bowler sreenath, i am not making a point about meat eating here, that was a joke but jokes apart, why cant we produce bowlers who can bowl 140/hr. thats the question, is it we are lacking in talent, or our political structure is that bad that we cant get bowlers on merit
Re: Re: Re: Re: Better to do a talent hunt for bowlers
by abhishek pushp on Apr 07, 2011 01:04 AM
simply because , the ultimate aim is to get into the indian team, then a player can earn money sufficient for his lifetime. Bowling 140kph and over consistent is impossible for indians, because that requires real, i mean REAL hard work which no Indian wants to do.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Better to do a talent hunt for bowlers
by Indian Telugu on Apr 06, 2011 09:58 PM
I do not see political structure as a reason, with IPL in place, no body can hide talent in this country.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Better to do a talent hunt for bowlers
by sreenivasulu reddy on Apr 06, 2011 10:08 PM
Indian Telugu - I agree with you. Now IPL came into Picture now and there will more chances for talented players. Also IPLs started talent search from local tournaments.
Re: And
by Oye Kake on Apr 06, 2011 08:54 PM
I know you PO; you are a Paki ISI agent; I have been seeing your post since long; you trying to divide India..
Re: And
by sun vin on Apr 06, 2011 08:57 PM
Give an opportunity to young Muslims/Christians/Anglo-Indians/Sikhs/BC/SC/ST with your wife....hahahahaha azzhole officer.
Re: there is a 73 old guy is empty stomach for last 50 hours..jun
by Oye Kake on Apr 06, 2011 08:55 PM
is he playing Cricket? Tell him to call Manmohan for a Cricket match and if he wins you will see a support which never he would have imagined
