I don't blindly support or condemn anybody... till recently...nobody used to criticise Dhoni....as soon his 200cr deal was reported, he has become the cynosure of all eyes... well...good neighbours become scoundrels when we notice that they have suddenly become multi millionaires....isn't it?
Re: Owner's Pride,Neighbour's Envy...
by Kempt Killer on Aug 11, 2010 11:57 AM
The Reason behind the hatred is not the 200 Cr Deal, But his approach.
The way simply blasting at the failure of batting because of bouncing balls in T20 WC recently, "spongy" pitch at dambulla and then just keep on playing without much solution for it, as if we cant do anything more.
Its a known fact that win or loss are part of the game, but when you have got so many things in your bag - like selecting a same person every now and then, giving him more chances even though there was a consistent failure.
We very well know that Ganguly's exit was due to Dhoni, but people accepted it as Dhoni as a captain gave more winning efforts in which he himself contributed.
But from last few months we dont see any personal contribution from the captain himself.
Re: Re: Owner's Pride,Neighbour's Envy...
by tendliya on Aug 11, 2010 12:06 PM
Well,on Saurav's exit: there are different stories...some even say it was Sachin bcos Saurav had branded him as a traveller or tourist when he was failing consistently...so he teamed up with Greg Chappell...that's one story. Personally, I don't see any reason for Dhoni getting involved in Saurav's ouster. On Dhoni's failure...everybody goes through bad patches..it happened with Rahul,Sachin, Saurav,Laxman..and u can name many...
Re: Re: Re: Owner's Pride,Neighbour's Envy...
by Sameer on Aug 11, 2010 12:13 PM
i doubt the Sachin bringing down story. Thats soo much of horsepile there. Ganguly's form had waned before his ouster the first time.
Its just plain old politician dhobi with his kroni Yuvraj, that caused ganguly exit
Re: Re: Re: Re: Owner's Pride,Neighbour's Envy...
by Kempt Killer on Aug 11, 2010 12:21 PM
even if you google "why ganguly was dropped" there is a cricinfo article which clearly mention - It is believed that the captain, Mahendra Singh Dhoni, wanted to stick with a majority of the squad that won the World Twenty20 last September
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Owner's Pride,Neighbour's Envy...
by LG on Aug 11, 2010 01:16 PM
Basically, Dhobi started believing foolishly that T20 WC win was made possible by talent and skills of the players involved. Which, in fact, was a fluke; as has been proved by failure to win next two T20WCs. So, he started talks of "seniors and youngsters".
Dhobi could forced Ganguly out because poor form of Ganguly and more than that regional politics.
But I have not doubt in my mind that Ganguly, though a bit arrogant at times, was always determined and skillful player.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Owner's Pride,Neighbour's Envy...
by satish chandar on Aug 11, 2010 01:33 PM
Seniors, Youngsters talk will come for every captain dude..
Not only with Dhoni.. Even Dada had same yardstick to include Bhajji in place of kumble in ODI's and Kaif for VVS..
In VB series, VVS scored 3 100's and was dropped after a single ODI series stating his fielding/Running between wkts as reason!!
Is Ganguly a good fielder?? How many times have he run out VVS and Dravid??
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Owner's Pride,Neighbour's Envy...
by Sameer on Aug 11, 2010 12:24 PM
yes, thats most likely the story. This sachin causing Saurav ouster is garbage.
Re: Re: Re: Owner's Pride,Neighbour's Envy...
by sunil k on Aug 11, 2010 03:34 PM
good for nothing player, who hardly fought at the middle for indian test victories.....allways sat at dressing room and "enjoyed" watching dravid and laxman fight for victories, no fitness, no bowling, no batting, never willing chase the ball, never willing to run quick singles....and still played for team india for such along period.!!!! dont u call this politics..??? greig chappel exposed him and kicked him out for "faking" injuries and skipping matches when there is a bit of grass on the pitch.....later part of his career india was playing with 10 men and dravid taking responsibility of keeping wickets...such were his "credentials"...
Re: Easy Success
by Kempt Killer on Aug 11, 2010 11:32 AM
The simple formula is create icons and earn more money, By Dhoni they are trying to create an Icon, just like there was Sachin, Ganguly and Dravid.
You can easily find the TRP or the people watching match reduces when there are no iconic players. Thus BCCI stick with the players which have fan following.
Yes, its true that it doesnt help for indian cause
Re: Re: Easy Success
by LG on Aug 11, 2010 11:37 AM
You made one simple mistake--you are comparing true icons with media hyped fake-icon, Dhobi. It is a disgrace to the word ICON itself if you put Dhobi in the category of Sachin or even Ganguly.
Re: Re: Re: Easy Success
by Kempt Killer on Aug 11, 2010 11:43 AM
Icons which were built earlier were true icons. Its true that todays icon Dhobi is media hyped fake icon.
Looks like BCCI is trying to show how different they are from PCB. We need to stick to a particular captain and we all know he doesnt bat the way others do. The few good things about him are .. he is amongst the best Wicket Keeper, average captain and average batsmen. Thats it.
Re: Re: Easy Success
by LG on Aug 11, 2010 11:42 AM
If that happens, it will kill cricket.
BCCI is busy is counting its eggs from golden goose and how to get more per lay; one day they will not hesitate to kill the goose to get more rich in just one attempt.
Re: Easy Success
by satish chandar on Aug 11, 2010 01:14 PM
LACK OF OWING RESPONSIBILITY FOR LOSS.. Come on.. Had the captain said he is the only reason for the wins?? He gives credit to the players who did well while winning.. Similarly, has the rights to point out where the things went wrong..
Sorry dude.. I dont understand - Care;ess attitude towards win/loss!!!
Spoilt cricketers - Who is not a spoilt cricketer?? When u get money, u ll get spoilt.. With a body of polititions, u need to be in touch with big shots.. As professionals, u need to attend parties hosted by nations.. Even thoiugh u dont drink like hell, the teams usually have parties after matches/series and ppl do drink there..
I still feel, the players selected are good(Apart from Jadeja).. The only thing is, they ware not performing upto the mark!!
Re: Re: Easy Success
by LG on Aug 11, 2010 01:28 PM
Have you ever held a responsible position in your profession or are you writing based on feedback from media?
I suspect you have not, otherwise how can you not understand what careless/remorseless attitude means.
If your are brought up in culture where drinking alcohol is as common as drinking water or juice in Indian Culture. Even then, I was not referring to partying or drinking.
Re: Re: Re: Easy Success
by satish chandar on Aug 11, 2010 01:37 PM
Its not me dude.. Players sharing Beer is a sport culture.. If u were not aware of it, sorry for disturbing u..
Re: Re: Re: Easy Success
by stumpview on Aug 12, 2010 08:23 AM
You b*h*a*i*n*c*h*o*t.. talking as if you are a big boss in some MNC...and f*u*c*k*i*n*g around here...you must be a b*a*d*v*a or a chapraasi..
Re: Easy Success
by satish chandar on Aug 11, 2010 01:10 PM
I dont think its BCCI alone who is preparing the pitch flat...
Even the tracks in Australia, WI, England and SA has flat pitches..
The swing in England is due to the conditions alone.. Even in tests, when sun is out, the England pace bowlers struggle a lot to get wickets..
In India, we are not going to get the conditions ever due to our climatic conditions..
Dambulla is never a international pitch.. How can a pitch favour bowlers that much when bowling under lights?? I dont say this only because India lost.. But the conditions favour bowlers under lights for sure..
If toss is going to have the say in result, why the hell the players need to play the match??
I dont feel the performances in such a series should be taken into acocunt while selecting the team for next series..
Re: Re: Easy Success
by LG on Aug 11, 2010 01:24 PM
The next time you will say performance of players and last T20 WCs or any other ICC tournament should be taken into account.
Only when pitch is flat, then only performance should be taken into account.
Re: Re: Re: Easy Success
by satish chandar on Aug 11, 2010 01:36 PM
Its not like that.. let the conditions (Flat or swing or bounce) be same for both the teams and we can accept the failure..
In Barbados (T20 WC), the track was bouncing for both the teams.. We doint have bowlers to use the conditions or batsmen to counter.. Thats a fault.. But Dambulla wont come under the same case.. Next match, if we win toss, we may win.. If Dhoni scores some runs, u ll doscount it as scored while batting first!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Easy Success
by LG on Aug 11, 2010 01:56 PM
If you accept that inability to play on bouncy and pacy pitch is fault (by your perspective) or shortcoming. Then it is there even now, and we lost because of that shortcomings. Why blame pitch for yesterday' shameless loss by 200 runs?
If it was closely fought match, maybe you can bring in external factors. That is why I said careless and remorseless attitude towards defeat.
But then, with fans like you who are blind and enjoy hyping a mediocre players like Dhobi and Jadeja, there is no space for argument or discussion.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Easy Success
by satish chandar on Aug 11, 2010 02:37 PM
yesterdays match was purely a worst one.. Anyone can say that.. Even Dhoni dint say like we just slipped the match!!
As a player, he knows the pain to play continuoously.. Now, dont argue that he should take rest!! If everyone takes rest, team wont be settled.. And, we have won a Asia cup and drawn a demanding test series(As a team).. So, they can be excused for this kind of shoddy performance in a no-value series and in a track where TOSS is the foremost factor!!
Re: Re: Easy Success
by sunil k on Aug 11, 2010 03:38 PM
india doesent prepare pitches... it under prepares it pitches to suite "flat pitch bullies" and bowlers like "bhajji" otherwise these players dont stop "crying" for so called "home pitch advantage"...
In 1990s, there was a rise of Sachin Tendulkar ... The way India lost by 200 runs, the margin used to be reduced to lost by 40-50 runs because Sachin used to score 70-100 runs but not much support from the other end. From then on Sachin was the favourite of all, people never used to mind whom he used to play for but he used to get some contribution for the team and people were happy that atleast he fought.
There was Anil Kumble, who tricky bowling was pleasure to watch. In between the captain cool of that time Azaruddin used to show his wristy shots and there was Ajay Jadeja, a new promising fielder with his alive. Ganguly's huge shot and Dravids comeback in New Zealand tour were the things which used to entertain at that time..
Then there was Yuvraj Singh.
It was then, till 2005, rise and fall of entertaining batsmen and bowlers.
Even, Dhobi was quite entertaining till he got the role of captain. After that there was Gautam Gambhir.
Is there anyone in recent Indian team other than Sehwag, that will keep you stick to the TV watching the game of ODI Indian Cricket Team?
Re: Missing the Era of Charming Players
by sunil k on Aug 11, 2010 03:42 PM
i'm not sure on what basis ur saying that sachin would have scored 70 to 100 runs on these "seaming" pitches sachin him self these days scoring only on very, very flat batting paradises.....not the same player around 7-8 years ago who used to belt any attack on any pitch conditions.....now with lack of footwork , any early seam moovement in the pitch, he gets out.... he is depending heavily on pitch conditions to score his 100's these days...
ironically consistent performing players like pujara r not selected in the team n much hyped players like rohit n yuv r selected.
rohit is overhyped player. every1 is talkig of his illusionary talent which is not there in him. he has been given so many chances but still v r expecting 'some' runs from him. even jadeja has to b shown door. he needs either to play well with the bat or perish.
when r v going to select genuine talent like pujara who is performing consistently. wake up after such a dysmal defeat.
Re: time for include genuine talents
by Sameer on Aug 11, 2010 11:05 AM
lets say we do select pujara and he flops, then what ? After all this has happened gazillion times
Re: Re: time for include genuine talents
by vinay on Aug 11, 2010 11:24 AM
so do u want to say that u hv to gv unlimited trials to non-performers n dont gv even a single chance to consistent performers. how can one show his talent unless tried. gv pujara a chance. he has been performing consistently since last 3 years.
Re: Re: time for include genuine talents
by tendliya on Aug 11, 2010 11:15 AM
So,what are you trying to convey? Sachin,Laxman and Dravid should continue playing? Mind you,all these three will leave within a short gap...unless you give a decent run to people like Pujara,Tiwaris,Rayudu,Kohli etc you are never going to win even against Bangladesh after a year or so....
Re: Re: Re: time for include genuine talents
by Sameer on Aug 11, 2010 11:16 AM
no am not saying that. But what I am saying is not to pin hopes on someone because he did well at domestic level.
Re: Re: Re: Re: time for include genuine talents
by vinay on Aug 11, 2010 11:25 AM
its not just pinning hopes, but its to try our bench strength in series like this.
Re: Re: Re: time for include genuine talents
by sunil k on Aug 11, 2010 03:47 PM
ohh..no...!!! not these "phalthu" 20-20 format players again... dont know wat u guys watch these days...all these players are "flat pitch bullies"....no proper footwork, cant play quality pace attack at international level.....failed miserably against ZIM attack resently......cant even bat 50 full overs..!!!! dravid is a must for team india till WC laxman is another better option... and no more "phalthu" 20-20 format players needed for team india for WC
First of all let us talk about your logic---"since there is no one, no harm in having a mediocre person as captain/leader".
That is logic always give by reactive or lazy people--there are many in India. That is also the reason we have a default PM, and you know the situation in India at present.
If you looking for best, you will find it--that is how things works in successful world.
Viru is there, and we can always go for a young player.
You are wrong in saying....Sachin is a total failure--it shows how hypocrite you are. You are worse than those who openly anti-Sachin, at least they do not pretend to be Sachin fan.
Only correct statement you made was- Sachin does not want lead.
Re: Re: @shammi khandelwal,
by LG on Aug 11, 2010 11:07 AM
There is a difference between saying ---some have poor records in captaincy and leveling him as total failure without knowing the kind of bowlers and batsmen he had at his disposal.
In crickets % of loss/win does not always give true pic of captaincy. Perfect example is how we won the 3rd test against SRL.
Only someone who does not like Sachin will make such statement--he is a total failure as captain, without knowing the kind of bowlers and batsmen he had at his disposal.
Re: Re: Re: @shammi khandelwal,
by satish chandar on Aug 11, 2010 01:20 PM
% Win/Loss wont give true pic of captaincy.. Then what will??
Almost the vore of the form batsmen/bowlers are either rested or injured.. He is still fighting and a normal cricket follower ll know how tough it will be to bat under Dambulla lights..
If u want changes after a single game, pity u.. Blind bashers!!
Re: Re: Re: @shammi khandelwal,
by satish chandar on Aug 11, 2010 01:18 PM
If u can say all the craps on Dhoni for selecting Jadeja and others, why cant Sachin hold the responsibility for not demanding the players he wanted??
He got Kambli, Agarkar and Dighe into the national team.. Then why cant he bring natural talents??
Sachin is a great player.. But not a great captain.. There is nothing harm in accepting it!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: @shammi khandelwal,
by Sameer on Aug 11, 2010 01:29 PM
except couple of things.. Yes Kambli enjoyed a break back into the team when tendy became captain.
But Agarkar ? Please don't be silly. The initial years of agarkar were amazing. He was the first potential strike bowler after Kapil Dev. Its a different matter that Injuries totaly killed his wicket taking abilities. But he was one of the best fast bowlers I saw from india.
Re: Re: Re: Re: @shammi khandelwal,
by LG on Aug 11, 2010 02:05 PM
Your blindness is forcing you to rationalize everything said against a mediocre player like Dhobi.
Dhobi's Fans like you go gaga over his brand value , because you know at heart that Dhobi is worthless.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @shammi khandelwal,
by satish chandar on Aug 11, 2010 02:46 PM
LG.. I am not going gaga over Dhoni.. But everyone have their own positives and negatives..
Sachin is so respected player in the country and none can match his achievements in the entire cricket history!!!
The only thing which eluded him is to handle a team!! I wont count the WC as a blackmark in his career.. It needs a entire teeam to win it.. But captaincy!!
He is far more capable and if he had demanded a team(As he did for MI in 2010 IPL to select raw players and surprise the opponents with fearless attitude), he suely would have become a better captain in Inteernational matches!!
without sachin and dravid Indian team look like very ordinary team no strength in the middle order and lack of experience and nobody poised the innings
Re: indian team
by Kirikkatwala on Aug 11, 2010 10:53 AM
True...but,how long Sachin and Dravid are going to play..another six months? Let's not adopt the Pakistan route..we have players like Rayudu,Kohli,Saurabh & Manoj Tiwari who are young and need to be groomed wih adequate chances so that they are ready to replace these stalwarts..
Re: Re: indian team
by sunil k on Aug 11, 2010 06:38 PM
hmm..grooming "phalthu" 20-20 format players for international level..!!!!! what an idea!!! international cricket is not abt "grooming" players....it's abt performance under various match situations... none of these players have the proper technic and ability to play quality pace attack at international level.. stop watching 20-20 cricket and know a thing or two abt batsmenship....
I want to ask you why some people are still tolerating Dhobi.
He did not show any remorse at the presentation ceremony when asked for pathetic show--in fact he was laughing as if it loss/win does not matter to him. Dhobi was giving his useless and illogical explanation as if Dhobi lost a very closely fought match.
I say Indian cricket fans for such mess because, as consumers, they are encouraging mediocrity in form of DHOBI, JADEJA.
They hyped a mediocre player DHobi and are still hyping him, who is now encouraging another one his kind- Jadeja.
Re: Re: Re: BigCobra
by shammi khandelwal on Aug 11, 2010 10:45 AM
indian selectors should try any new face for this job as south africa did by selecting smith as captain
Re: Re: BigCobra
by Sameer on Aug 11, 2010 11:01 AM
@Shammi
Viru's approach is a necessary evil that we have to take. If you get viru to change his game based on situation, it won't benefit either of us.
Gautham may be considered though.
I don't like Dhobi , but we don't have much of a choice. And I suspect that has made him complacent and careless.
Also, to be honest this is the expression on all fronts. None of the newcommers care when they lose. The caring part is best left to the seniors who have a very distressed look when we are not doing well. That explains the reason behind their dedication.
Re: Re: BigCobra
by LG on Aug 11, 2010 10:52 AM
shammi khandelwal,
First I talk about your logic--since there is no one, no harm in having a mediocre person as captain/leader.
That is logic always give by reactive or lazy people--there many in India, That is also the reason we have a default PM, and you know the situation in India at present.
If you looking for best, you will find it--that is how things works.
Viru is there, and we can always go for a young player.
You are wrong in saying....Sachin is a total failure--it shows how hypocrite you are. You are worse than those who openly anti-Sachin, at least they do not pretend to be Sachin fan.
Only correct statement you made was- Sachin does not want lead.
Re: Re: Re: BigCobra
by shammi khandelwal on Aug 11, 2010 10:57 AM
i am surprised to see referring me as hypocrite i said sachin's records as a captain are not good and he do not want to lead.
Re: Re: Re: Re: BigCobra
by Sameer on Aug 11, 2010 11:10 AM
Shammi -- You have to consider the factors when tendy was a captain. He had players like sujit somsunder, dodga ganesh, abhey kuruvilla , bharadvaj etc. They really weren't international material. So you have an indian team with maybe 6-8 competent world class players and you are competing against teams that have 10-11 world class players.
Its just not possible for a captain to do all the work. At one time, he was begging his bowlers to score 7 runs every match. Imagine that
So frankly , me is not a bad captain , but he was captain of a bad team. There is only so much pressure one man can take. He has the pressure of entire india on his shoulders on and off field , and also the burden of carrying the batting unit on field as well.
The opponents had only 1 criteria to win the match , which was get sachin early and its autowin.
Re: Re: Re: Re: BigCobra
by LG on Aug 11, 2010 11:04 AM
There is a difference between saying ---some have poor records in captaincy and leveling him as failed.
In crickets % of loss/win does not always give true pic of captaincy.
Only some who does not like Sachin will make such statement--he is a total failure as captain.
Re: My view.......
by DoubleLarge on Aug 11, 2010 10:41 AM
first priority...Jadeja should be told Ja..re..ja and junked..Ashwin should replace him...Karthik looked confused and out of sorts...can be kept as a reserve for Dhoni...include Virat Kohli in his place...
Re: My view.......
by sunil k on Aug 11, 2010 06:45 PM
At the moment "phalthu" 20-20 format players are getting free chances to play for team india.....plenty of them.... selectors and BCCI supporting these kind of players on the basis of 20-20 format .... none of them have proper technic, temperament and ability to play quality pace attack at international level....."flat pitch bullies".... all idiots giving different combinations of these players .... and hoping these players will bring WC to india!!! what a joke!!!! what a cricketing knowledge!!!
There are a lot of guys who comment without seeing the match and just look at the scoreboard. People who know the technicalities of the game and have played the game themselves will know that it makes a huge difference to comment after seeing the game rather than just looking at the scoreboard. Generally I comment about players only on the matches I had seen. For eg Karthik if you guys had watched wud have judged that he was looking good. Played a beautiful leg side flicked four. He got a wrong decision and got out Rohith was looking very nervy as usual. He started with an uppishly flicked four to start with which did not look convincing and then got out himself by giving catching practice to the slips. The ball wasn’t great. Raina creamed a beautiful cover driven four before getting out to a great ball that moved away. So I wont worry much about him. Similarly for the bowlers. The ball that Pravin bowled the newcomer for a duck was a beauty. It moved away at the last moment. No player could have done anything if you get a ball like that. But going by some posters they would start blaming the batsman for getting out on a duck. Watching makes a difference as it tells you whether the guy before getting out was looking comfortable out there or was he scratchy, did he get a wrong decision. Or did he get a beauty of a delivery. Same for the bowlers. Was he given the right field, was a catch dropped against the bowler.There is something called as givin credit
Re: Please watch and comment
by sunil k on Aug 11, 2010 03:54 PM
dont deffend "phalthu" 20-20 format players like this... everyone understand cricket here.... everyone know the weekness of these "flat pitch bullies" jst a bit of seam movement , every one edges the deliveries behind wicket.... no proper footwork.. no ability..and ...temperament to play international cricket.... dont make urself a "FOOL" by writing such a nonsense comment.... wake up and statr watching dravid's inningses to know abt what is footwork and how to play seam attack under such conditions.....
congratulations on pathetic loss against mighty newzealand yesterday
Main Reason of Loosing this match was you only 01- Pathetic selection of team (Still falling under jadeja love) 02- ignorance of Virat Kohli 03- misses stumping chance by you 04- when pacers was successfull, nz were 3 wickets down, u didnt allow nehra to come back for a short spell 05- You were not looking captain who is leading from front
Garry kirston is also accuse for this pathetic loss
01- being a lefhander give some technics to Yuvraj Singh, Otherwise he will become water boy permanent 02- tech Indian batsmen which ball out side off stump have to play & which One have to leave 03- Organise Indian Batting Order Once again 04- If Two wicket Keepers (Dhoni & Dk are playing together in One Team) allow Dk to kept wicket, send dhoni to bat at No 3 05- consuntrate on fielding (Out fielding also having part in that pathetic defeat)
Re: Re: letter to dhoni & kirston
by lex luker on Aug 11, 2010 10:41 AM
Okies Professor Gomeslo, Hope ur from OXFORD university, Forgive us hahahahahah :)
Re: Re: Re: letter to dhoni & kirston
by Gomeslo on Aug 11, 2010 11:08 AM
enjoy mate....too much of serious discussion is boring.. is Srikanth going to read our comments and implement all the changes suggested here... ha ha ha ha
