again problem with reply and posting here. RE:RE:RE:JAY and Prasad by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 05:21 PM sehwag is to be blaed fair and square but my point is this is were a senior colleague can help and a captain can support. Sehwag is an exceptional talent ===================================== Sachin stepped in and tried to help him. But the matter that Sehwag refused to learn, he is kicked from the team.
Accept that he is an exceptional talent, lets hope he will come back with a bang that this sort of break always help the players to rethink about themselves and this sort of breaks always helps a player.
RE:JAY and Prasad
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 05:29 PM
Signing of Buddy!!!! would like to continue but have to leave !! Thanks for the discussions catch you later.
RE:JAY and Prasad
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 05:28 PM
RE:RE:RE:JAY and Prasad by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 05:24 PM this is were we come toour first poit that dravid i too decent to be an aggressive captain. If a kick was required he needed to do. So that sehwag tries to be more responsible. backing sehwag too much has seen his sacking =======================================
I dont know the differene between motivation and backing. He motivated him by backing him and kicked him when he is not getting improvement.
RE:JAY and Prasad
by Ifear paceman on Jul 15, 2007 06:00 PM
Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi Jay Prasad even saurav that was some discussion worth having thoght at. I may add our bowling is main worry. Pace bowlers are like sprinters. They break down often. But they can do damage to tail enders more. unfortunately we think that we are developing new one he breaks down and to keep his place in team he reduces his pace.
What I feel is pace bowler who bowls at speed of more than 140 knph average should be given more renumeration. If he breaks down he has good balance to look after his family. In india if you are unsuccessful in cricket you are pauper. No real means of earnings.
That is one of the reason young ones take batting than bowling as their cricketing career. Rarely pace bowlers have career more than 5 to 6 years. Then they turn in to medium pacers..
Our National Cricket Team is not going to get us laurels. We always forget what we have been through in all these years. The sorry state is because of our cricketers, their Selectors and to a great extent - us.
I am not getting reply button. So Posting here. ========================================== by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 04:48 PM Please think: All these players like ( Sehwag/ Harbhajan/ Yuvraj/ Kaif/ Zaheer .....)were raw when they came to the scene they were groomed to become successful this was well done. Now Dravid inherited ateam with all these established players WHERE are THEY NOW??? How many are left??? and how many more have come????? this is to be thought about. ================================================ Reply: this is what I am not getting. If no young talent are coming into the team, is it the fault of dravid? He is tryiong to groom whatever talent available to him. Kaarthik and Piyush Chaawla are 2 good Examples.
Coming to sehwag, kaif, bhajji, they became greater than game and lost their form. Is this also the fault of dravid?
RE:JAY and Prasad
by Prasad Shastri on Jul 14, 2007 05:02 PM
Absolutely, UPS, Sehwag, Harbhajan and Zaheer have behave as if they are bigger than cricket and that behaviour stems from the unbridled support they got from Saurav. Dravid is still humble. His fault is he tries to be correct and diplomatic in public and comes across as officious. People equate brashness and rudeness with aggression. Cricket is agame played as much as in the mind as with skill.
India 29-3
UPS as regards perception in the media about Dravid ignoring Ganguly by posting him at long leg or long on which I garee with you is not strictly correct please refer to
Ajay Naidu in TOI today on sports page "Captain Tendulkar has a ball". He writes that the little champion was only too happy to draw up the Bengal Tiger's wealth of experience as leader instead of condemining him to third man or fine leg implying that Tendulkar unlike Dravid prefers Ganguly in slips.
RE:JAY and Prasad
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 05:05 PM
these Journalist idiots need masala NEWS for the sake of their own popularities.
I dont see anything wrong with ganguly at longleg becasue I even have seen dravuid a lot fo times at longleg underdravid and sachin hemself have seen fielding at longleg. wts wrong with it?
lets leave the individuals and let them decide what is best for them and the team.
RE:JAY and Prasad
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 05:10 PM
I think what one needs to understand is that all these players cannot be declining together.... there should something more to it. It simply seems that our players are not enjoying playing together. And one more thought All these players had made amark in the international scenario. So they were good talents who needed to be nurished still further. They simply have lost out. Dravid simply could not hold them together or motivate them to give their best like Ganguly
RE:JAY and Prasad
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 05:13 PM
Dravid tried to motivate sehwag by keeping him in the team and supported a lot. But what happended?
He was getting out playing so rashly and dont have pateince and hence he is kicked out of the team. He got maximum support and motivation from dravid and even got crticism from a lot of peole why dravid keeping him in the team?
RE:RE:JAY and Prasad
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 05:19 PM
keeping a person in a team is not the point getting the best out of him is the job I think dravid was trying to be kind to sehwag but that could not motivate him to play carefully!!!!!
RE:RE:RE:JAY and Prasad
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 05:24 PM
this is were we come toour first poit that dravid i too decent to be an aggressive captain. If a kick was required he needed to do. So that sehwag tries to be more responsible. backing sehwag too much has seen his sacking
RE:RE:RE:JAY and Prasad
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 05:20 PM
trying to be kind is a crime or what?
you want draivid to kick sehwag's face and tell him to play well?
do you think Sehwag is a kid to tell this? thats what I said this is not a childish game or no player is a child to tell on each and every day, every morning wt you need to do.
RE:RE:RE:JAY and Prasad
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 05:21 PM
sehwag is to be blaed fair and square but my point is this is were a senior colleague can help and a captain can support. Sehwag is an exceptional talent
RE:JAY and Prasad
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 04:57 PM
the fact is that Dravid inherited a bette team than ganguly.....where he had to build up. These players have vanished or are in the process this is were leadership matters a lot
RE:JAY and Prasad
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 05:01 PM
dravid got a better team than ganguly? come on buddy.
When dravid got selected as captain, sehwag is in declining form, bhajji forgotten how to take wickets in one days. He has been continued in teh team only because of his performances against AUS in 2 series. Yuvraj became greater than the game and in and out of the team due to his indiscipline and injuries, sachin is injuried and out of team for almost one year. So dravid got a better team? think before posting.
RE:JAY and Prasad
by Lalatendu Deo on Jul 14, 2007 05:11 PM
These are all because of our continuing dis-respect to our team's coach - by Players, by Selectors and by us.
RE:JAY and Prasad
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 05:19 PM
this is because we dont respect new thoughts and dont want to come out of our own comfort zones and we want to kick them off if they challenges us and wanted us to change.
Sehwag kicked john wright on his face when wright asked sehwag to be more responsible and sensible in his play. Saurav played a lot of politics when he was told to improve his game agianst fast bolwers, especially short pitch stuff.
Indians wanted to be Indians and still want to beat the best in the world.
RE:RE:JAY and Prasad
by Prasad Shastri on Jul 14, 2007 05:05 PM
Not to mention, breakdown of Pathan, Munaf, Balaji and now Sresanth. Harbhajan went wicketless in Pakistan, failed to ignite in WI and SA.
Instead of blindly assuming Saurav to be God, we should analyze Saurav's Capatincy other than his 9 wins against Zim and BD. One would be surpised
RE:JAY and Prasad
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 05:10 PM
The big fact is that like jay mentioned Ganguly used the emotions of Indians and the players very intelligenlty to hide his wrong doings. Everything looks extreemly OK when the team is winning, but all these arguments of captain is not good, he is not aggreeesive, he is not like this , not like that comes up only if the team is not winning.
Captain doesnt hold a special tag. Captain is just another team player, but given responsibility to implement the strategies that were discussed in the team meetings with coach along with Senior players. In summary, Captain is just a facilitator and one of the 11 team members.
If team members dont take the responsibility and dont perform well, No Captain or a team lead cannot do anything.
So when England Lions are batting it was a benign pitch, now when Indian Lions (or Tigers whatever) started it has suddenly become an unplayable one, at least 14-3 is telling such. Same old story? Now, I am looking forward to one thing - in what ground Jaffer will be included in the first test.
RE:Indian Lions
by supremo on Jul 14, 2007 04:59 PM
bloody jaffer & laxman should be thrown out, they dont have the capacity to play even warm up matches
A captain is as good as his team. Playing for your country should be motivation enough. If you require your captain to remove his shirt to motivate you , the less said the better
People have questioned Dravid's decision to bat first against BD in the WC. Now why is that? Any Captain whose team has 50000 runs would fancy batting first against a side like BD, put the runs on the board and ask the opposition to get it. What's wrong in that?
At 150-4 in 41 overs, with Saurav and Yuvraj having done the hard work we failed to reach 225 and got all out at 190.
Now what was Rahul's failing as captain? Should he have sent a message to a former captain and a potential captain to stay till the end and not throw their wicket?
The great Zaheer who made a comeback after being given the boot by Guru Greg was taken to the cleaners by Tamim Iqbal. This was similar to final of last WC where he and Ganguly were aggression personified and when Zaheer was hit all over by Hayden, he looked silly and Saurav was captain then. Now Tamim Iqbal is not in Hayden's class and still he hit Zaheer all around.
RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 04:05 PM
My simple question is this. Why people only blames captain if something wrong happens? and praises a player if something good happens?
As all we know captain only dont decide anything. Its the senior players and senior mgmt decides this.
Your question about why dravid hasnt sent a message to his senior player to play till the end and score?
why do you decide that dravid didnt send any message?
There were NEWS in the papers that dravid and greg sent a message to ganguly to accelerate the innings and ganguly refused to do so and wanted to bat slowly to get his score and finally after 44th over, he got out after making 50. Then what you will say to this NEWS? Who has to be blamed for this?
Accept that zaheer did this a lot of times, be it at the WC final, recently against BL. Also agarkar did this a lot of times. These are the ordinary bolwers who will bowl well once in a while and not consistent.
If you have such team who dont play consistently, no captain or even god can help you.
Dont criticise the captain for the sake of criticism.
RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 04:11 PM
another question I want to put is jay is arguiing thAT dravid needs to emulate ganguly and need to have some attributes of ganguly. My question is simple.
why dravid need to emulate some of the qualitites from others?
Ganguly is ganguly and dravid is dravid. both are 2 individuals.
Its like asking yuvraj to learn some of the batting shots that is only known by Sachin.
Yuvraj cannot emulate Sachin and ganguly cannot emulate dravid and vice versa.
So far dravid has 50.45 winning % and ganguly has 52%.
As I said this is simple mathematics. wt matters is the end result.
RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Prasad Shastri on Jul 14, 2007 04:28 PM
Way to go UPS, when one tries to emulate, one usually is inhibited because we try to be something we are not. Better to concentrate on and play to your strengths rather then try to be someone your are not.
UPS, I fully agree with you, why should Dravid emulate some one else?
Batting first is usually team mgmt's decision, includes captain,coach,vice-captain,senior pros, BCCI manager and just about everybody.
Decision to bat first with BD was inconsequential. We lost because our batsmen batted slowly, Dravid came at no.5 got out for a good 22, actually a marginal LBW decision, Sachin palyed a forgettable shot and Saurav crawled to his 50 and then he and Yuvraj threw their wickets. Zaheer and Agarkar did not bowl a single yorker or slower delivery in their opening spell, got hit all around the park by Tamim Iqbal.
Almost seemed like a concerted effort to make Dravid and Chappell look silly, but in the end, the senior pros earned the wrath and ire of the Indian Fans.
A TV channel sting operation had the Selectors saying that Seniors were deliberately not supporting Dravid. Then the best decision, BCCI should have taken was immediately after BD loss they should have extended Dravid and Chappell's tenure and sent a firm message as to who was in charge, then fiasco against SL could have been avoided, becuase if that sting operation was true, seniors would know that their careers were on line.
RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 04:33 PM
you r absolutely right. But who listens all this man?
BCCI is a bunch of jokers and politicians whose role is to play politics and rude the game of cricket in the country.
Jay, did you got the answer why indian team dont look as a team and dont play as a team under dravid than Ganguly?
This is because all players including seniors dont support Dravid where as all seniors including Dravid who whole heartdly supported ganguly for the sake of the team and team spirit. This is the big difference you see in the team.
This is no the fault of Dravid, its the fault of the administrators and the players. Now dravid is struggling hard to get the trust of the players and trying to stabilize the team. Everybody should support him.
RE:RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 04:42 PM
This makes it more evident that the team does not suppot Dravid . Or in another way we can say that Dravid is not able to reign in his team....isnt it so???
RE:RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 04:42 PM
again jay you are arguing blindly with your comments saying that "But we had a more responsive team when ganguly was the captain with so many talents coming up now we see a much mellowed team. thats the difference."
Lack of talent in the country is the responsibility of Dravid? Wt BCCI is doing? what NCA is doing?
Dravid is trying to put a good show with the team available to him. It doesnt mean he should show wonders with a medicore team. Dont know wt you r speaking. Arguing so blindly.
RE:RE:RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Prasad Shastri on Jul 14, 2007 04:48 PM
UPS and JAY, at least this is a good debate, much more palatable than just being abusive, regional, chavunistic and sexist. Gladdens me to think that we can think differently in a healthy manner.
India 14-3, Karthik is gone, Ganguly joins Sachin.
RE:RE:RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Prasad Shastri on Jul 14, 2007 04:54 PM
Ajay Naidu in TOI today on sports page "Captain Tendulkar has a ball". He writes that the little champion was only too happy to draw up the Bengal Tiger's wealth of experience as leader instead of condemining him to third man or fine leg implying that Tendulkar unlike Dravid prefers Ganguly in slips.
RE:RE:RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 04:48 PM
Please think: All these players like ( Sehwag/ Harbhajan/ Yuvraj/ Kaif/ Zaheer .....)were raw when they came to the scene they were groomed to become successful this was well done. Now Dravid inherited ateam with all these established players WHERE are THEY NOW??? How many are left??? and how many more have come????? this is to be thought about.
RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Prasad Shastri on Jul 14, 2007 04:40 PM
Today, Dravid is not captaining India against England A.
Sachin and Saurav as per newspaper reports are in tandem. Sachin seems excited and he has posted Saurva at slip instead of long leg like Dravid as per newspaper reports and is interacting very well with Saurav.
However bottomline - England A 413-8 decld. India 12-2, Jaffer and Laxman are gone.
RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 04:44 PM
who said dravid posted ganguly at longleg? I have seen Ganguly at first slip against SA in the one days. if the captain doesnt have even freedom to post a fielder at his own liking position, I pity his position. :):):):)
RE:RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 04:44 PM
Sachin was never a great captain. he fell to his own expectations. he is a performer not a great leader this is exactly what I a pointing out The greatest player need not be the greatest captain.
RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by tanmoy bhattacharya on Jul 14, 2007 04:09 PM
Excellent analysis. We Indian fans go more by imotions rather than critically analysing & then passing a remark. Good job.
RE:RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 04:28 PM
absolutely, we always go by our emotions, even at the time of selecting a team.
you have to select the best team for the best match. If it is test match, ganguly shouldne be in the team and lakshman should always be in the team.
if it is one day match, lakshman should not be given chance and ganguly always should be there openign the innings.
RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 04:09 PM
jay buddy, I need your comments on this post.
you r very intelligently skipping posts you dont want to answer and arguing that dravid is not better than ganguly and we dont accpet it and so on and so forth.
RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 04:15 PM
I think a captain who cannot reign in his players is not respected..... it is as simple as that... thats what i am pointing to you buddy
RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 04:18 PM
how do you know that dravid is not reign with his players?
See every individual has his own style. We all seen azhar very calm, dull, not moving well with players and so on. But he is the successful captain before ganguly broke that record.
It doesnt matter how captain behaves, wt matters is the end result.
RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 04:31 PM
I think you are trying to conclude that A captain cannot make a difference to a team which I dont agree. Then why do we need one? we need some one to rally his team around when we are in crucial moments and guide a team strategically. Some times it requires a captain to exhibit emotions to charge his team more so with indias are Indias are a bit more emotionally charged than others. Ganguly could use it very well and so is considered to be better. ( Imran was another one)
RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Prasad Shastri on Jul 14, 2007 04:44 PM
Agreed Jay, teams require leadership, otherwise, why do you need a playing captain, but can not blame captain, if alarge number of team members refuse to support him. Then either BCCI should remove Dravid from captaincy ar give Dravid a team of his choice and support him 100%.
RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 04:35 PM
Ganguly used it for both good and bad purposes. So lets not talk about emotions and Ganguly here. The sooner we get out of emotions, the better we are.
RE:RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 04:39 PM
But we had a more responsive team when he was the captain with so many talents coming up now we see a much mellowed team. thats the difference.
RE:RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 04:18 PM
if ganguly hasnt listened to dravid dont you think either he made a wrong choice by picking him in the team or he was simply not heard by his team..... lets not talk about Chappel he contibuted more to the media than to indian cricket
RE:RE:RE:Analyze Dravid's captaincy in WC
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 04:20 PM
we all know wt happended when ganguly is not in the team and even left partied thretened to pass a resolution in the Parliament if ganguly is not selected.
As far as my opinion is concerned, he is in the team only to satisfy some politicians and we are wasting a slot by giving him the chance.
We sacrified lakshman and yuvraj a lot of time for the sake of ganguly.
now in 1st practice match india give the chance to "RANA DEV BOSS" after match chandu boarday not happy with his performance by saying he put only 1 wkt in each innings now in 11nd match he give chance to "ISHANT SHARMA" he got no wkt in his pocket...... i think "RANA DEV BOSS" deserve a iind chance too for absurving the conditions..... what is the policy follow by managment i can't understand....comment please
RE:fast bowlers performance
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 03:32 PM
policy is simpl.e try out all combinations and come out with the best combination for the 1st test.
For me, This should be the playing 11.
Kaarthik Jaffer Dravid Sachin Lakshman yuvraj Dhoni Kumble Sreeshanth Zaheer Ishanth /Rana dev based on team mgmt coinfidence.
Come on Jay, I know you will come after me for not selcting Ganguly. :):):):):)
RE:RE:fast bowlers performance
by Upadrasta PardhaSaradhi on Jul 14, 2007 03:34 PM
if ganguly has to be in the team and used as a 4th seemer, he should open and come into the place in place of Jaffer. Is he ready then?
RE:RE:fast bowlers performance
by Priyadarshan on Jul 14, 2007 03:52 PM
so everybody feel exclusion of ganguly and inclusion of sachin will better for the team ???? I don't support it. Just for a try exclude both, retain dravind and see the result.
RE:fast bowlers performance
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 03:46 PM
Nope !!! you are mistaken Ganguly was a great captain and Dravid needs to emulate some of these qualities else we need to find some one with these qualities to lead.my point was that and just that, this team looks a good pick from what ever we have now.
RE:RE:fast bowlers performance
by Mature Stud on Jul 14, 2007 05:39 PM
no wonder honey...you are a stupid bangalorean...how can you select ganguly?Lolz...
RE:FInal Clash Argentina is the winner
by Gilchrist on Jul 14, 2007 03:25 PM
ya got it...argentina will win...now go to ESPN forum on football...not here...
RE:FInal Clash Argentina is the winner
by jay pillai on Jul 14, 2007 03:25 PM
Here comes the" confused " again...... He doesnt know whats cricket and whats football
