A few days back according to rediff, India was supposed to be in the No.2 Spot even if it was a draw or a win the last test. Now they say that India is in the Third Spot. Please explain.
RE:Rediff's wrong calculations
by Venkat G on Aug 16, 2007 05:38 PM
Please read the fallowing carefully, which written in your mentioned link: India can move up to second from its present position of fifth in the LG ICC Test Championship with a clean sweep of England during the three-match series. A 2-0 win would lift the Indians to third spot, just behind Michael Vaughan's side
RE:Rediff's wrong calculations
by Vivek Mardia on Aug 16, 2007 04:57 PM
http://ushome.rediff.com/cricket/2007/jul/18rankings.htm...My evidence to support the above message
I have seen many cricket expert in this forum using a word called aggressive Captain. It may be true that Dravid is not good as a captain but history of cricket tells us different story.Great captains of world like Mike Braiyerly, Clive Loyd, Wally Hamond, Charles Barrenman, Martin Crowe, Stephen Flemming, Mark Taylor they all are cool customer. Therefore saying that a person opening his shirt and indulging in cheap conversation is good captain is totally rediculous. A captain should be cool headed. Even a CEO of company or Major general of Army , he should not be a hot minded person who gets excited very easily.
RE:What Aggressive
by Srinivasa Hosadurga on Aug 16, 2007 02:35 PM
I think you are making wrong interpretation by equating cool-headedness to 'letting a winning opportunity go off'. All the captains you used as examples in the above message, never let a winning opportunity go. Nobody is complaining about Dravid being impeccably dressed; it his defeatist attitude that one is complaining.
RE:What Aggressive
by Suman Bhat on Aug 17, 2007 12:49 PM
Wadekar: Rahul Dravid as a captain has finally come full circle and now is able to implement what he wants. Previously his thoughts might have been influenced by that of the coach, but during the England series he was on his own. Bizarrely, each time we have won in England there was no coach.
Bedi: We do better without a coach. For too long they've been spoonfed and now that they are on their own they probably realised their responsibilities better. Dravid has done a reasonable job as a captain: either he has been very good and attacking or at times he gets defensive, but he is learning.
Sehwag: I was really impressed by Rahul's captaincy. It doesn't matter if you have the coach or not because it is the captain who handles things on the ground and Rahul carried the right changes at the right times with the bowling changes and the field positions.
Harbhajan: We haven't won anything much for quite some time now and credit must go to Rahul Dravid and the senior boys who took the responsibility and led ably on the field.
dravid is better captain than gnaguly he is managing team verywell even while 2 ex captian superstar trying with dirty back stage politics to prove dravid not good captain
RE:What Aggressive
by ramachandran nair on Aug 16, 2007 05:26 PM
I agee with you Mr Srinivasa. Cool head is okay but his indifference towards game at the critical junctions is not digestive. Coming to Amit Singh, he is just beating around the bush. He just wanted to make a ground to tarnish the impage of our great Dada, an aggressive, captain with lot of leadership quality, and add to that authority on the game and his team mates. Nobody could buy him and he enjoys full authority if given a chance. he disregards, bordes, vengsarkars, gavaskars when on field. He considers himself as the king and field belongs to him. Attitude with positive mind plays a vital role for the betterment of the game. Let us look for a captain with leadership quality, batting alone would suffice.
RE:What Aggressive
by amit singh on Aug 16, 2007 05:50 PM
Mr. Ramchandran I am not here to tarnish any bodies image i am gr8 fan of Saurav Ganguly but the fact is wat leadership qualities n wat aggressive attitude u r talking. Just tell me one simple thing if all players were performing well under Mr Ganguly and most of them have become non performer now then how come Statistics of both captain same for their winning percentage in both Test and Oneday. Infact its better in case of Mr Dravid while playing Test(actual Cricket) Overseas as a captain.
RE:What Aggressive
by Raja Paandian on Aug 16, 2007 03:39 PM
Seperate aggressive and captaincy. "Sledging" is basically all the foul and personal insults not fit to print. Retaliating by an Indian was so new that Saurav was selectively punished so many times by the racist ICC that he had to sit out games, while Aussie and SA players with bigger violations did not even get a slap on the wrist - e.g. Ricky Ponting, A Gilchrist, Lee, Gillespie, Andre Nel, etc.
Enforcing follow-on with 300 runs is not aggressive - quite tame. Not doing so, cowardly! Let us face this - that is how the rest of the world terms it.
England - 450 in second (follow-on) innings! In their dreams. If 300 is not enough for this captain, then he is not captain material! Captain on the field - not through or for the media.
The strain of impotent captaincy is showing in Rahul's batting too consistently - I like his batting completeness too much to see it fizzle; and India can not afford to loose him. Captaincy is not a glamorous job, especially if he is so full of himself, that he gave batting practice to the Indian batsman against Bangladesh in a World Cup. What a shame that was! Now that was not aggressive captaincy - just plain stupid.
RE:RE:What Aggressive
by Suman Bhat on Aug 17, 2007 12:53 PM
dravid wihtin 2 yrs most successful odi captain than ganguly 5 yrs success taht ganguly had 31 odi wins against weaker teams. test winning abroad ganguly pak, zim and bangla dravid ban, WI after 30 yrswithout tenulkar and gnaguly and now in eng after 26yrs dravid is managing team verywell even when 2 ex captain and chief selector are breathing his neck and he is not only managing team without coach but also dirty back stage politics of 2 ex captains who are jealous of dravid's success as captain dravid is better captain / batsman for team india
RE:RE:What Aggressive
by Bango Khota on Aug 16, 2007 04:40 PM
Ha ..ha...ha.... Famous win Against Australia in Australia which Saurav Fans always quote.2003-2004 Australia v India - 2nd Test Adelaide Oval
Bowlers that time were, J N Gillespie, B A Williams, S C G MacGill, A J Bichel, S M Katich, S R Waugh
Other prominant bowlers like Lee Macgrath,Warne resting. only Gillespie How many overs he can Bowl? He is not Zaheer Khan who can not get tired. ODI jo khelna hein. Otherwise somebody can take his place.
Dravid first inning 233 runs Laxman 148 runs. Dada ? 2 mere runs
second inning Dravid 72 sehwag 47 and our great Bengal Paper Tiger 12 runs......
RE:RE:RE:What Aggressive
by Bango Khota on Aug 16, 2007 04:52 PM
If he was only bowler we had.Then Zaheer should have bowled England all out on whole last day...
RE:What Aggressive
by on Aug 16, 2007 06:37 PM
what about this series. How much has Dravid contributed? If you use thte same yardstick used in ur exapmple of the Adelaide test, Dravid is claiming the credit for this series victory in which he took 96 ball to score what, 12 odd runs. Stop this crap abt dravid being a great captain. Someone gave a list of very cool captains. I would just like to give the example of one Mr.Imran khan for agressive captains. what he did with the pakistan team cannot and will never be replicated. Can Dravid inspire a team like Imran could. Not een if he is reborn again.
RE:RE:What Aggressive
by Suman Bhat on Aug 17, 2007 12:56 PM
ganguly was non performing captian for last 2 yrs of his captaincy did not deserve 12mqn in team but survived bcuz of dlamiays blessings dravid has to fight 2 excaptains dirty politics and to keep team in good spirit and won the series abourad.team won odi and test series without gnaguly tendulakr under dravid's captaincy
RE:What Aggressive
by Bango Khota on Aug 16, 2007 07:03 PM
can a captain getting slapped from pace bowlers around world lead team? Can captain opt not coming to bat seeing green top lead the team?
RE:What Aggressive
by Gundappa on Aug 16, 2007 02:52 PM
There were many more cheaper incidents made by captains/players like pulling down trouser showing bums in front of one lac spectators or instructing under-arm bowling or bowling beamers, than waving shirt. Altercation with the umpires or captains or opponent players is not a new thing in cricket during Sourav's
India could have shared 2nd spot with England, had they won the Oval test. But, by the way they played on the last 2 days of the tes, Indian team really DOES NOT DESERVE the 2nd spot. So, the justice is upheld. The joy of winning the series is lost by the coward-like move by Rahul Dravid in paricular and the team as a whole. England was bowled out within 7 overs on the 4th day, and the team thaought overnight rest for the bowlers was not enough!! It is an unbelievable justification !! In my opinion, the justification is this: "Suppose England bats well in their 2nd innings, and set a target of, say, 100~125 runs for a win. Our batting greats have shown in tha past that they are capable of getting bowled out within this small target. If it had happened like that, then all the bloated egos of the fab-four would be puctured. Yet again, the ire of the people would have fallen on the non-performing seniors, and, who knows, they would have lost their place in the team. It also indirectly means, their income from endorsement would stop." Given all these factors, the seniors of the team took the easiest path for safety, and in effect killed the joy of winning the series. These are bunch of non-performing jokers capable of killing the game for self interest. I was supportive of Rahul Dravid so far. But now I feel, he should be sacked as captain; he is neither batting well, nor the captaincy is good.
RE:Not enforcing follow-on - a calculated move
by Raja Paandian on Aug 16, 2007 04:58 PM
Not enforcing follow-on was not a calculated move. It was 1.cowardly - playing safe; 2.stupid best way to loose the test and 3.an insult to his own bowlers - while putting needless pressure on his batsmen.
It was a very unhappy team that went to bat on day 4. If 300 plus is not safe to enforce a follow-on, what poor respect and confidence did he have on the 'boys' playing for him. No wonder they were angry esp. as it was against THIS England team! The distraction from anger explains 11/3 but what about who put them in that spot? It was the best way to loose the game - a few quick lucky wickets and suddenly the prospect of loosing after making 600 plus and a lead of 319. The bowlers were upset with their "CAPTAIN's" lack of confidence and unsubstantiated claims of tiredness. The same quick 3 wickets the other way would have put the pressure on the already stressed England team, the Indian win could have come on day 4!
Forget about 1,2 or 3 spots; what about gamesmanship.
Rahul Dravid should definitely not be taking advice from Chandu Borde.
How did Saurav get so much out of Irfan, Balaji, Sreesanth and Yuvaraj just a season or so ago?
RE:Not enforcing follow-on - a calculated move
by Bango Khota on Aug 16, 2007 05:07 PM
Why did we not get England more than 6 wickets on last day and in about 110 overs?
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DRAVID SHOWED LACK OF COURAGE BY NOT ENFORCING FOLLOWON THEREBY LOOSING A CHANCE TO WIN THE THIRD TEST, ALSO THEY DID NOT PLAY FAST IN SECOND INNINGS TO GIVE ENOUGH TIME TO OUR BOWLERS.IF IT WOULD HAVE BEN AUSTRALIA, THEYWOULD HAVE GONE FOR KILL DEFINATELY. TEAM IS FOOLING THEMSELVES BY DANCING AND SMILING ON THE PRETEXT THAT THEY HAVE WON SERIES IN ENGLAND AFTER 21 YEARS. INSIDE THEIR HEART THEY KNOW THAT THEY LOST THE TEST MATCH AND HAVE LET THE NATION DOWN. IT SEEMS THAT DRAVID HAS PLAYED FOR HIS PERSONAL RECORD. HE SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF HIS CAPANTINCY AND GANGULY REAPPOINTED AS CAPTAIN OF INDIAN TEAM AS HE IS MORE AGGRASIVE IN HIS APPROACH.
Critics of Indian team, who will not stick to one opinion, if dravid would have imposed follow on and Eng would have made 450 leaving 1 or 2 sessions for India to chase and if India would have failed halfway or completely as it would have been difficult to play on the 5th day by the standard of 4th day eve sky... then you would have said why he went to play on 5th day?
People like you will never be happy! Unsatisfied looser souls!...
RE:Say three cheers to the victory of Indian Team...!!!
by Raja Paandian on Aug 16, 2007 02:55 PM
England 450 while batting follow-on and scared? This England team? Dravid sent in an unhappy team to bat, hence 11-3. Saved by Saurav not Rahul's 96-ball 12. And he came in at #3 - psyched himself to a scared WALL. Poor reward for the 1st inning efforts of batsmen and bowlers. He is too good a batsmen, still need him as one. Do not need him as a scared captain with consistent poor tactics. Pakistan 2004 2nd test -lot of bad blood.
RE:Say three cheers to the victory of Indian Team...!!!
by Bango Khota on Aug 16, 2007 05:05 PM
Why Englishmen retreated from Dunkirk..Go and find out for larger victory or not?
RE:Say three cheers to the victory of Indian Team...!!!
by jithin george on Aug 17, 2007 06:32 PM
Fully over cast conditions on the fourth day and a lead of 315.bowlers playing the so called third test after a gap of 10 days and the captain reckons he saw them tired...bull shit
believe me had Sourav not played that knock we might have well got bowled out for 80 odd runs and they would have squared the series chasing 400.
And one more thing friends..cricket a is a game ,where captaining a side needs agression and pumping his team up..dravid lacks both..we where lucky that the jelly bean incident took place and zaheer was inspirational and that rubbed to the other bowlers and fielders.
Dravid might not have scored runs here..but i am not worried abt that...he will come good in the next series coz he is one of the best batsman round the globe...but please don't hail his captaincy..seriously friends..he is not good enough...a good captain is one who sets the field and ask the bowlers to bowl according to it...but ordinary captains are one who follows the bowl..for me dravid comes int he second category..no hard feelings..but i consider dravid a very ordinary captain
RE:Say three cheers to the victory of Indian Team...!!!
by Bango Khota on Aug 21, 2007 08:43 AM
Name the greatest test player of India who played much more than 50 tests
1)who is yet to score test century against South Africa full of pace bowlers.
2) who is yet to score test century against Pakistan. Full of pace boelers.
2) who has scored only test century against Australia without its main pace bowlers.
RE:RE:Say three cheers to the victory of Indian Team...!!!
by Milind on Aug 16, 2007 03:25 PM
it is not being scared but there is somthing called calculated risk...
RE:Say three cheers to the victory of Indian Team...!!!
by Bango Khota on Aug 16, 2007 04:57 PM
Why did Saurav scored slowly against Bangladesh in world cup?
Was Bangla desh bowling superior to England?scared?
RE:Say three cheers to the victory of Indian Team...!!!
by Jack Sparrow on Aug 16, 2007 11:23 AM
aa gaya Dravid ka beta..as Rakesh mentioned..go to heaven and watch cricket from there u satisfied soul :)
RE:Say three cheers to the victory of Indian Team...!!!
by sohi singh on Aug 16, 2007 11:59 AM
india will never be on top in any field apart from corruption , population and castism
RE:Say three cheers to the victory of Indian Team...!!!
by rakesh ranjan on Aug 16, 2007 11:10 AM
hehehhehehehe Milind is a satified soul. So Milind please leave the earth and go to heaven hehehhehehe.
RE:Say three cheers to the victory of Indian Team...!!!
by krissh on Aug 16, 2007 01:09 PM
this way, nobody can take indian cricket to the podium position.
RE:RE:Say three cheers to the victory of Indian Team...!!!
by Milind on Aug 16, 2007 03:23 PM
are you blind? didnt you see indians picked up the trophy?
RE:Say three cheers to the victory of Indian Team...!!!
by Sunil Purushe on Aug 16, 2007 01:59 PM
apparently, all of you have a lot of free time to spare
RE:Say three cheers to the victory of Indian Team...!!!
by Jack Sparrow on Aug 16, 2007 11:22 AM
aa gaya Dravid a beta..as Rakesh mentioned..go to heaven and watch cricket from there u satisfied soul :)
Well, people have been criticising Rahul for lack of suitable decision in the third test match. But it should not be like this. See, we Indian in India or abroad are not aggesive by nature. This is visible by several examples happenings in in around us. This biggest example is that we have been slave for about 750 years but do not have courage to discuss as why and how this happened and what preventive measure we should take now so that this does not happen again. Rahul is going step by step . I fully agree with his philosphy.Initially go slow and then have such momentum which can ne continued for longer duration.Dear criticiser, have courage to take proper decision first in your own family , then with your relatives, then in your own village/town /district, province and then in your own society and finally in your own country. Those ,who are covered at all the above stated front will only suggest at International front.
RE:India in England for Cricket
by rakesh ranjan on Aug 16, 2007 11:15 AM
Dear Tripathi, You should know now the approach is not "bottom to top", it is "top to bottom". So we should think about our country first then our family. Otherwise we will go far behind the other countries.
RE:India in England for Cricket
by Raja Paandian on Aug 16, 2007 02:01 PM
Indians not aggressive? See them in type A or competitive jobs in India and abroad.
3000 years of religion based castism is what India still suffers, not slave mentality. That caste divide is what made the English rule India then - not slavery or ahimsa.
RE:India in England for Cricket
by Bango Khota on Aug 16, 2007 04:54 PM
Why Englishmen retreated from Dunkirk..Go and find out for larger victory or not?
RE:India in England for Cricket
by Milind on Aug 16, 2007 10:59 AM
Let me do little correction...
Indians were not slaves but they were fighting against invaders for more than 1500 years... they could not get rid of the invaders completely because one of the Hindu principal 'ahimsa' but whenever it went over the head Indians have overturned the rule of unruly people...
