no one is indulging in upper caste bashing. lower castes are getting bashed. provisions in the constitution are being implemented.the founding fathers in their wisdom have included a provision for the backward classes getting preferential treatment. brother,if the cutoff is not met,the seats are moved to the open category.u get that.if the cutoff determined by the cei s ,in their wisdom, is not met by a single candidate,then the entire quota is kept empty. what are the specific parts of both the articles that u find fault with?
RE:sriram
by Sriram Vanamamalai on May 01, 2007 11:58 PM Permalink
You did not get what i found fault with? Read again I am saying the whole concept is wrong. To begin with giving seats alone is not going to help. Lay the foundation strong that will help.
Your author says the the tamilnadu Medical association welcomes the move. Why it would not? look at the majority of the member you know the answer as to why.
RE:sriram
by dinesh kumar on May 02, 2007 12:05 AM Permalink
ok ,so the tamilnadu medical association is full of doctors who have casteist considerations which suggest that any comment from the body is to be rejected.that body is not worth anything. ok,next point.
RE:[object]
by dinesh kumar on May 02, 2007 12:09 AM Permalink
if and when someone from the obc community reaches the standards of the iit and iim s ,he is given a relaxation of the cutoff marks to facilitate entry. the govt of india is implementing reservations to alleviate social and economic backwardness. that doesnt mean the govt of india has abandoned building and maintaining schools. those are going on concurrently. get it? in future,if i hear anything about the tamilnadu chapter of the indian medical association,i know how to deal with it,thanks.
RE:sriram
by subbu on May 02, 2007 12:07 AM Permalink
did the founding father told 1931 census can be used as a basis for reservations in 2007. what a joke u r talking about. the ame founding father has also told that reservations can be done for a max of 10 years. but u opportunist Backward class creamy layers and vote bank politicians have made it soooo looong that now the gap between rich and poor has widened into a valley. Hell with your periyar and all the K's.
RE:RE:sriram
by dinesh kumar on May 02, 2007 12:13 AM Permalink
hey subbu,caste populations were provided by the state governments.mandal conducted his own enumeration.3443 castes were identified by mandal.they were extrapolated to the state lists and the 1931 census.those which figured in both were selected. looks like special classes have to be conducted for u people about the working of the constitution. anyway since most of u have decided to shift abroad,u will probably not be bothered,
RE:RE:RE:sriram
by Sriram Vanamamalai on May 02, 2007 12:19 AM Permalink
The same constitutions also says equality for all. Dont you think thats an irony?
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Sriram Vanamamalai on May 02, 2007 12:18 AM Permalink
Did you even think why people go abroad? No one likes to be away from family and friends and motherland. But the reservations forces us to seek a better future. After all we have to live you see.
RE:RE:[object MouseEvent]
by vydhyanath s on May 02, 2007 12:14 PM Permalink
Not only reservations, we have our own special talents which are identified by people from other countries and not done so at our own country.
Also, the talents are properly rewarded unlike better aminities to the people coming under backward communities backhome.
Instead of commenting on people who go abroad, better shut your c and work for your own welfare MrDK
RE:sriram
by Sriram Vanamamalai on May 02, 2007 12:14 AM Permalink
if you can quote articles then read this http://ia.rediff.com/news/2007/apr/23guest.htm
That author was an alumni of IIT
http://ia.rediff.com/money/2007/apr/24guest.htm
The second article says a lot about our heritage and how this whole caste system came into existence.
is going to die soon, people are gonna kill each other. It is a land only for rich OBCs who stop all others from progressing. A time will come when there will be bloodshed between rich OBCs and rest of Indians. It is a tinderbox waiting to explode. F***ing periyar was a rich ba***rd who visited night clubs and whorehouses what right has he got to denigrate open category people like me.
RE:India
by sridhar gorantla on May 02, 2007 12:10 AM Permalink
DEAR SAI PUDUCODE, ABOVE ALL THE VEDAS, ONE HAS TO STRIVE FOR THE PERSONAL EXPERIENCES OOF THE ALL PERVADING DIVINITY. JUST READING THE BOOKS OR VEDAS BY THE MERE SENSES WILL NOT MAKE A PERSON DIVINE. THE PURPOSE OF VEDAS OR GEETA OR BIBLE OR QURAN OR ANY OTHER SCRIPTURE IS PURELY TO GUIDE THE PERSON WHO IS ON THE PATH OF ENLIGHTMENT. THESE SCRIPTURES GIVE ASSURANCES (THAT THE PERSON IS ON RIGHT TRACK) TO SUCH PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE PATH TO ENLIGHTMENT. THIS IS THE ROLE OF SCRIPTURES. INFACT, SWAMI RAMAKRISHNA PARAMAHAMSA SAYS AS BELOW:
THE KNOWLEDGE GAINED BY READING BOOKS IS GOOD. THE KNOWLEDGE GAINED BY DIRECT INTERACTION/CONTACT WITH SOMEONE WHO ALREADY ENLIGHTENED IS BETTER. BUT THE KNOWLEDGE OR WISDOM GAINED BY ONES OWN EXPERIENCES OF THE DIVINITY ARE THE BEST.
IF YOU YOURSELF KNOWS THAT YOU ARE NOT LIMITED TO JUST THE BODY OR MIND, BUT AN UNLIMITED AND ALL PERVADING DIVINITY, THEN YOU DONOT NEED TO STICK TO ANY THING ELSE.
SWAMI ADI SHANKARACHARYA SAYS WHEN THE SENSES OF A PERSON(including bodily senses and mind also) CALMS DOWN, THE ALL PERVADINGNESS IS PERCEIVED BY ANYONE AND EVERYONE WITH OUT THE NEED EVEN FOR THE SCRIPTURES. WE SEE MANY SAINTS CONFIRM THE SAME THING AGAIN AND AGAIN SINCE AGES.
SO, THE PURPOSE OF BOOKS OR SCRIPTURES(OR RELIGION) IS ONLY TO GUIDE OR DIRECT INDIVIDUALITY TOWARDS THE UNIVERSALNESS, AND BOOKS BY THEMSELVES ARE NOT THE DESTINATION OR UNIVERSAL.
SO, IT SHOULD BE THE DUTY OF EVERY INDIVIDUAL TO TRULY EXPERIENCE THE ALL PERVADING DIVINTIY EVEN FOR A SPLIT SECOND, RATHER THAN JUST STOP AFTER READING SCRIPTURES. I HAVE SEEN MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY GOOD AT MASTERY OF THE VEDAS OR BIBLE OR QURAN OR GEETHA, BUT ARE NOT HAVING ANY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF ALL PERVADING GOD OR DIVINITY. IF YOU HAVE TO TREAT THESE FOLKS AS ENLIGHTENED FOLKS, THEN EVEN COMPUTERS ARE TO BE TREATED AS ENLITENED INDIVIDUALS, SINCE THEY ARE EVEN MORE PRECISELY ABLE TO STORE DATA IN THEM AND VENT OUT WHEN NEEDED.
RE:[object]
by sridhar gorantla on May 02, 2007 12:12 AM Permalink
BY THE WAY, THANKS A LOT FOR THE GOOD EXPLANATION ON HOW THE VEDAS, UPANISHADS AND GEETA etc VEDIC SCRIPTURES ARE CONNECTED TO EACH OTHERS.
but a frustrated poor open category student, what i see around me are bas***rd sons of OBC politicians/mayors/IAS/IPS getting seats by virtue of their caste despite their corrupt dads having amassed crores of rupees. India is f***ing dead place ruled by f***ing nitwits. It is ridiculous, I am going to emigrate soon after my IIM graduation.
that was in support to Humanist's reaction in frustration that (s)he will emigrate.... leave india to all these people. let them break it, convert it, screw it, rape it, burn it.... do what ever...
46 % of obc s get 30 % of the seats.13 % of the nonreerved category gets the chance to compete in 31 % of the seats.if the uppercastes are consistently overscored in open competition,whose fault is it ?
u cant see logic when it is shown to u? what does that suggest?
RE:cutoff marks ensure quality,pal
by Sriram Vanamamalai on May 01, 2007 11:35 PM Permalink
Quality, do you know the meaning of that Dinesh? You can term it as quality if its an even playing field. Its like this you start the race by placing a few people half way down the track. How can that be termed as quality. Let all of them compete from the same starting point. To excel lay your foundations better.
RE:cutoff marks ensure quality,pal
by Humanist on May 01, 2007 11:14 PM Permalink
% calculation is wrong. So what if OBCs constitute 46% of population who do you think benefits from the reservation it is only the rich OBCs the poor OBC/UCs always remain poor. The seats are limited whereas the population is infinite.
RE:cutoff marks ensure quality,pal
by Astrophysicist on May 02, 2007 12:59 AM Permalink
Well Dinesh, I guess you did not understand how reservation works...
Say in Tamil Nadu, 31% of the seats are for open competition - which means all BC, MBC, SC & ST and so called "Forward community" people can compete.
The remaining 30% is for BCs - in which BCs, MBCs, SC & STs are allowed to compete apart from so called "Forward communities."
So, in total 46% of OBCs can compete in 31 30 = 61% of seats.
So, it is no body's else's fault. The so called "forward communities" are born in a wrong place at this time.
Hence, millions of forward community people are motivated to leave the country and migrate to a nation which realises their talent. Of course, they don't go abroad because they are rich - they obtain scholarships and fellowships from abroad.
In general with majority of the Indian population being catagoried as BC, MBC, SC and ST - it reveals to the world that we are indeed a BACKWARD COUNTRY seeking reservation, help, quota from all corners of the world!!!
RE:disabuse urself that it is abuse, sriram
by Sriram Vanamamalai on May 01, 2007 11:29 PM Permalink
If you think I am reporting abuse You are wrong. I don't like to report abuses even if you call me names. BTW you have not yet responded to the replies I have given for your 2 articles.
To all Brahmin Bashers and Similarly to all SC/ST/OBC Bashers as well as to religion bashers such as Hindu Bashers, Muslims Bashers, Christian Bashers etc. and caste bashers . To all Hindi Speaking Bashers as well as to all Tamil Speaking Bashers as well as to all other regional language speaking bashers To all religious chauvinists, to all caste chauvinists, to all linguistic chauvinists,to all regional chauvinists.....
STOP BALKANIZATION OF INDIA!!!!!
SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!
This isn't the land of Slobodan Milosovic, don't make it one!!!!
I know some people want to keep on abusing others and want to get away with it and if somehow someone complains then they try to stop him from doing so or shout him down similar to Hitler's SS. It is just one example of the nazification/talibanization/balkanization this country is heading towards. People here are targeting communities believing what great service they do to their kins not realizing that targeting any community in itself is a great disservice to the country and to their community itself.I don't want my country to have several partitions on communal,casteist and linguistic-regional lines, but with all this going on, I can only look in dismay as to what my country is slowly turning into. A great disservice to the country is being done by this balkanization process and seems loyalties from India have now narrowed down to local affiliations,there seems to be no patriotism left!!!! It just seems to be a Feudal structure waiting to erupt similar to what happened in 47!! Shame on all those who think what great deeds they do by abusing people, those who think that their local loyalties are far greater than this country and that the country can be compromised at any cost to fulfill their wishes and give vent to their prejudices.If you have any sanity left, come to your senses!!!!
Sriram, I paste the same message over and over again for one simple reason and perhaps you know why. People are crazy and times are strange, I'm locked in tight, I'm out of range,I used to care but things have changed.I hurt easy I just don't show it, you can hurt someone and not even know it, the next 60 seconds could feel like eternity... words by the famous singer Bob Dylan. When people think they are supreme,when they think, things ought to be as they want it to be, when everyone seems to them a stranger on the prowl, insanity leads the way. When I say what I say, people don't listen and some say nay,to fight and keep on fighting and keep everyone at bay, that's one hell of a dilemma that Me and the likes of me face, when people shout and suffering takes place, it takes the better of a lot of people. When people swim in a pool of hatred and for them that's the world they prefer,they drown deep into it slowly and no one is there to rescue. for hatred shall only lead to hatred and everyone will be caught in the tide and then I shall emerge to rescue them and bring them back to light, hail me for I am the one who rescues and does not stop, who speaks from conviction like the trickle of the first rain drop, that I shall rescue those around me who drown, for that's my duty and I shall do so again and again
RE:India is not Yugoslavia for God Sake!!!!!
by Sriram Vanamamalai on May 01, 2007 10:55 PM Permalink
I totally agree with your points mentioned Akash But as I mentioned it only annoys people the next time you post it becomes repetitive and other persons valid point gets lost in the process. Don't we have to give everyone a fair chance. I mean the message is out there why do that over and over again.
RE:India is not Yugoslavia for God Sake!!!!!
by dinesh kumar on May 01, 2007 10:59 PM Permalink
this message is the gist of the matter. im for reservation,that doesnt mean im antibrahmin. im for periyar,that doent mean im anti shankaracharya. im for tamil,that doesnt mean im anti hindi. likewise,reservation for one community doesnt mean discrimination against another community.
RE:vanamamalai,read these 2 articles and give ur considered opinion
by Sriram Vanamamalai on May 01, 2007 10:56 PM Permalink
BTW Do you know the famous thinker called Dr MS Udayamoorthy. He said "Dont get them the fish Teach them how to catch it will go a long way." What I am suggesting is something along those lines. Lay a strong foundation. Then you can see India excel.
RE:vanamamalai,read these 2 articles and give ur considered opinion
by Sriram Vanamamalai on May 01, 2007 10:51 PM Permalink
Now that you started Here is a scenario.
Imagine an OBC getting into IIT with less marks will he be able to compete? Ans: No He cannot because he lacks foundation to compete and confidence because his pal will be way ahead. Result: He will start another cycle of Upper caste bashing.
Now Imagine this scenario. Here is a OBC student in school not so bright but enough is done to lay a strong platform and inculcate fighting qualities (read as hardworking). He competes for IIT JEE gets in and see how much of a difference it will bring to him.
Do you know what is happenning thesedays Affluent people from other castes just say to their children you get the minimum marks required for your category to get a seat thats enough? How can you quantify knowledge dude if you do that you become a dud. Do you want the future generation to become like that? You and your author live ina dream world thinking that mere admission to a college and a degree will make a person bright? As evidence suggests you are not bright from where I can see.
RE:vanamamalai,read these 2 articles and give ur considered opinion
by Paddu Iyer on May 02, 2007 01:03 AM Permalink
I have seen all the Brahmins lacking confidence and doesn't even know how to talk and behave in Public. All he had done is Memorize things life long just like the Mantras. If we change the system of grading and give importance to creativity instead of memorizing, we wouldn't be needing reservation at all. The Brahmins would fall to the Bottom.
RE:vanamamalai,read these 2 articles and give ur considered opinion
by Sriram Vanamamalai on May 02, 2007 09:06 AM Permalink
You are wrong my friend. If that is the case answer this how come Brahmins children are successful abroad when they go for studies where creativity is given importance? A human should adapt themselves to changing society otherwise we will still have been cavemen
