The major problem is that the growth of all the sectors is dependant on the IT sectors.The increase in land-prices which has lead to increase in the cost of essential commodities owe it to the IT-Sector. The dependance on the IT sector to fuel the overall growth of the economy is scarry. The fact remains that the IT sector has a revenue close to 30 billion USD whereas it supports other sectors to a very large extent.It is evident from the fact that landlords would rent out their houses only to software engineers; apparently they have very large pockets unlike people of other sectors and thus there is inflation in prices of basic stuff. The majority of Software engineers are service providers and are actually not creating value for themselves thus leading stagnation. I belong to the IT sector and have witnessed that we guys are pampered to the extent of being spoilt. The dependancy on the IT sector should be eased then we'll be able to see the real growth that the country is capable of. Attention has to be given to sectors like BT, Manufacturing[techniques] as India has a vast resource pool for the same.
RE:The Reality
by Kaushik Das on Mar 03, 2008 07:14 PM
I don't think the IT sector is spoiling anyone any more. It was the case in 2000 but not any more.
yes, dependency is high but that is also an opportunity. See, with higher salaries, IT people will buy better cars and houses and spend more. Now, that should lead to opps in automobile engg and retail and realty as well. In fact, civil engg, the dead branch, may regrow due to this. So, yes, it is all up to innovation which seems to be happening but on a low scale in the dependent industries.
Also, growing automobile industry, etc, will lead to growing demand for IT as IT has the capability of automating things. Thus, it is a possible beneficial cycle if taken interdependently. However, I don't know how many people at the right places realise this.
RE:The Reality
by sudipta sarkar on Mar 03, 2008 08:51 PM
Well said and thank you Mr. Vivek realising the problem being an IT guy. There are many other sectors that need to grow. Apart from industry, academic people(teachers and researchers) also need better recognition in terms of remuneration. Look at IITs..they are finding it difficult to get faculties.There should some sort of uniformity in income levels unless the Class War caused by IT will not end. Inflation rates are soaring high making life difficult for the average middle class. Landlords in a small city like Bhubhaneswar show a lot of attitude in renting out their ordinary properties to non-ITs, charging them extremely higher rates becos of IT walas. things should really ease down to bridge the gap.
Ignormous people are confused between the jobs which depend on cost arbitrage and others which are purly outsourced due to skill. Not all IT jobs depend on cost arbitrage Not all people working in Software Industry are IT guys. ITES is not remotely related to IT. Telecom , Embidded Systems , DSP , VLSI design , databse design , High End computing, OS design are specialised fields which are quite distinct from a system admin jon or a BPO job.
RE:Confused
by Kaushik Das on Mar 03, 2008 08:59 PM
Yes, this is a very good point, Amit. Strangely, in our country, people combine IT and ITES very easily and even companies do that, actually.
However, the specialised fields you mentioned don't have so many opps in India, although some people are doing high end jobs like that.
RE:Confused
by kalyanaraman s. on Mar 03, 2008 07:39 PM
Fair enough clarification........but that does not address the basic question: how many of the "sophisticated (!!)" domains that are mentioned above have Indians (based in India), who provide services/research/products etc., that are sustaining and do not depend on the state of economy ?
to be honest, domain experts in India, who will outlive the downturn in the US economy are not sizeable. what we have in most of the companies is the herd that will do what it is asked to do. only question that will be asked by this group is "how much am i getting" or "how much will i get".
i used to be offended when IT professionals used to be referred to as "cyber-workers" (well, a bit more derisively !!)......not any more
RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by Amit on Mar 03, 2008 04:45 PM
The problem is that people use Computer Science , IT , Software Engineering , System Engineering and ITES( euphemism for BPO) interchangabely.
IT is for providing solutions to business problems it is not necessarily Software engineering. Software Engineering is , Art and Science of creating software using some established practices , Software Engineering deals more with process to write software and increase quality and productivity. Computer science is entierly different branch which caters to a broader spectrum for creating solutions based on computers.
Finally ITES is just user of what IT, Software Engineering and Computer Science creates and is not in same catagory, So being a business graduate you are surly confused.
Computer Sc. and Software Engg. gards are highly in demand and are high paying and companies such as google, MS etc seek them
where as typical IT person is more concerned with deplyoment of these tech. in a busniess domain for example an CRM or ERP person or some one dealing in writing oracel based applications. The lower end of this is maintainace of the above These jobs depend on cost arbitrage
And BPO is function of pure cost arbitrage and this article was concerned more on that.
RE:RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by Kaushik Das on Mar 03, 2008 09:56 PM
hey Amit, if there was a star system, I would have graded your reply the highest. I often find it very hard to deal with people who use these terms interchangeably.
Once, a landlady of mine asked me to fix her CD drive (which was not working) because she knew I was a 'computer engineer'.
Another lady once asked me to create a Word Document for an acquaintance of her's resume - because she thought I would be good in creating a word document, because I am a 'computer engineer'. When I tell people that I actually did not do my engineering in computer science, they find it hard to believe that I am in software. :-))
RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by Kaushik Das on Mar 03, 2008 09:50 PM
You sound like a megalomaniac. Many people from premier tech and business institutes including yours are coming into the coolie companies and doing just about nothing - even less than the coolies because they think they are meant for higher things. I think you need a kick on your behind to come to terms with reality. IIT / IIM, etc are not that elitist any more. And there are quite a few good for nothing fellows there whose productivity is much less than the cyber coolie.
yes, I agree that cutting down the flab is necessary. but did you realise that people like you form the FLAB and need to be cut down and kept further away from your 2 lakh INR/month salary.
People like you do not know anything about the real work, study mgmt and then directly become managers without knowing what to manage (although you DO learn how to manage).
RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by KrishnaSundar suggula on Mar 03, 2008 04:50 PM
Comment with a Poor taste . All these Premier B School graduates think others as money machines who are being filled in HR and marketting positions in these IT companies , Make these nasty decisions of mass recruitement without even giving a second thought for the organization's core competency being diluted. Again they say that below average graduates are only in the need of doing this junk work. truely hypocritical view!
I dont think marketing soaps and biscuits is no intelligent work either!
RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by Amit on Mar 03, 2008 04:57 PM
Which business schoold does not call itself premier :-) In IT service comapnies too many MBAs were recruited and when they find they are not getting trated at par with engineers they get frustated.
RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by Amit on Mar 03, 2008 04:54 PM
I am translating some potion of Dhanjays message for readers benifit.
"come from a government established premier B-School in the western part of India, and I spent quite some time to merely experiment with this IT sector. "
Translation : I could not get a job in finance or marketing after my MBA from B grade school so i got a job in IT industry in a company which i felt was good ( Infy /Wip/TCS / Satyam / Cognizent) and I had no clue what it is , FInally I found out that it was boring low end grunt work so I quit and found a job elsewhere where I am getting more commission on products I peddle.
" Finally, all cyber coolies need to be kicked hard on their behind so that they come onto terms with business and economic reality ;-)"
Translation: I do not understand why some of them get high salary and will be happy if they loose :-)
RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by Amit on Mar 03, 2008 05:07 PM
So are were you that dense to join a IT Service company ,I am sure that you did not had offer from Google , Qualcomm, Microsoft, Samsung, Phillips, SAP or even some good Indian software Company such as Iflex. Do you think selling Sabun , Tel , Loan , phone or Car is very intellectual exercise ? Or for that matter how is book keeping and maintaining balance Sheets ( CAs job ) better then software. Let me take equity analysis for example if it is not money what is there in that job which is more intellectual then any other job ? Why you have to be so critical of IT guys when everyone works for Mooolah.
Untill you are an artist working for self satisfaction or a scientist in persuit of knowledge I have no reason to beleive that you are any different then IT guy.
RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by Dhananjay Aradhye on Mar 03, 2008 05:10 PM
That is what i said dear, companies like google, SAP are the ones to work for.
RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by amartya Roy on Mar 03, 2008 07:31 PM
I am pretty sure you have never had the opportunity to be a prt of a team that was involved in consulting and developing a end to end soultion for the customer. Believe me the feeling you get when you see your application working is nothing less than the feeling of a mother when she sees her child take the first step. Atleast me and my team felt that way. And I don't think Google, SAP and other such companies do anything that is very different from this experience. Its not just the company that matters, its more about how you want to look at it.
RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by KrishnaSundar suggula on Mar 03, 2008 05:21 PM
Believe it or not, I know a guy working on SAP- BI (business intelligence) which is obviously sounds suitable for MBA graduates that too from for some smart premier institute guys (subject belong to this institute). He was recruited in a premier coolie incorporation, our shrewd friend struggled to have a grip over the work decided to resign from the job. Believe me, this work he was given need no hard work forget about intelligence which he is full of! All he lacked was applying his mind and thought.
Moral: Any coolie needs to be kicked at his back till he finds his right job, and no damagers (read managers) should bother about them. (ditto for managers.. if they feel their job is smarter , somebody else will kick them out of biscuit selling!)
RE:RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by Kaushik Das on Mar 03, 2008 10:01 PM
You 'premier' school guys from IIT and IIM just DO NOT DO ANY WORK. I have seen many premier school guys and have come to this conclusion - hardly 1% of them work. The rest just join and have fun, treated like king because they are from 'premier' school - don't work, spend company time and resources doing research and even job search - finally leave after negotiating with both companies - thus kicking the company in the behind.
RE:RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by Subhasis Mohapatra on Mar 03, 2008 07:21 PM
Why u are advotising ur self.U should spent ur time thinking how to improve our echonomy..How ur company ll gain more profit..Dont be jelous on IT guys and dont write as if u are a unsussessful pertion today..Even majority of (NIT,IIT)guys are joining in the software industry... For ur kind information...(Intel has fired 200 r&d engineers among them 126 are from NIT and IIT).(Similarly other's)..These guys are taking huse amount of salary..bt output is nill..ofcorce they can do what ever other's can..bt they are not up to the mark at their level.(Because these book warm's ll prepare for higher studies in office times..MBA fallow ll do these tink...above is the exampul...they ll not concentrate on their work..)
RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by Dhananjay Aradhye on Mar 03, 2008 04:33 PM
I would like to be a manager at Rs. 2,00,000 a month. I think I'm not very from that ;-)
RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by Amit Marwah on Mar 03, 2008 04:54 PM
Has any one of you ever worked on a enterprise level software solution's life cycle? I doubt. Because you both are talking only the numbers. The learning and exposure that one gets while working with customers across the world, and know their business and how it all works, add on top of it the charm of seeing a hundred users work on your software application and solve customer queries, delighting their own customers...all this is what IT services (LOW END) company provides.
RE:IT Revolution and the Cyber Coolies
by Polisetty Ravishankar on Mar 03, 2008 05:58 PM
Good one Amit! You are a very matured Manager! Keep it up man!
In IT salaries India's rank is not even in Top 10 in the world. Indian Techies still receives less salaries then that received by some small countries in Europe. Also India has a big advantage of having large pool of English speaking population which countries like China or Phillipines dont have. 2001-03 was worst period for IT industry but Big Indian IT companies have survived and coped that period very well. Its not like only salaries in India will only grow. It will grow all around the world.
In IT salaries India's rank is not even in Top 10 in the world. Indian Techies still receives less salaries then that received by some small countries in Europe. Also India has a big advantage of having large pool of English speaking population which countries like China or Phillipines dont have. 2001-03 was worst period for IT industry but Big Indian IT companies have survived and coped that period very well. Its not like only salaries in India will only grow. It will grow all around the world.
RE:No need to worry
by Gautam Sinha on Mar 03, 2008 04:30 PM
ha ha ha. Whatever you save will be a few meagre dollars but whatever you pay for overload will be a lot of rupees. Only thing you need to worry about is haircut which is around 35USD. Rest are available at walmart and India stores at competitive prices assuming you will earn a salary there.
RE:No need to worry
by thiyagu on Mar 03, 2008 07:40 PM
35 USDs...? even in Brooklyn u can have a hair cut for 15 uSDs. i guess every where u can find a shopfor USDs. Dr.Thyagu,MD
RE:Hi , I want some tips on my US visit
by Gautam Sinha on Mar 03, 2008 04:32 PM
Eat Dal Kichhri and vitamin capsules :) Skip dinner for something light.
RE:Hi , I want some tips on my US visit
by BBAA on Mar 03, 2008 04:47 PM
Do u have any sence .. what question u need to ask and how to ask.. r u really IT guy junk fellow
RE:Hi , I want some tips on my US visit
by vineet garg on Mar 03, 2008 03:59 PM
Get your head shaved. No rice/pickle. No soap.(do you need really :P) Take a cooker (Best friend in US if you are a vegetarian.) ... However I feel pity on you if you need to lookout for these kind of tips.
Eveything is available in US for some price ( 10 times) but then your income will also be 10 times.
RE:RE:RE:Hi , I want some tips on my US visit
by Gautam Sinha on Mar 03, 2008 04:33 PM
Burger King or Subway is cheaper and tastier;) Forget fuel costs, use public transport and monthly pass(monthly pass is tax deductable)
RE:RE:RE:RE:Hi , I want some tips on my US visit
by Suchin Shetty on Mar 03, 2008 06:02 PM
seriously, thats the life you intend to lead in usa ? Seriously !!! Jeez, you do all that when you are a student trying to cope between college fees and loans and living expenses....
The brighter Indian software will continue to be wooed by the Googles and the Yahoos of the world. These may be say about 300-400 engineers a year. The folks next in talent will get jobs in good MNCs any where in the world so they will continue to have good jobs. The lower end services engineers will have to make do with low wages and high working hours and will form the bulk of workforce. Like it does today.
The software engineers have nothing to worry about as talent is mobile and can work/join anywhere. It is the Indian IT companies that need to worry.
